by Militant Costco » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:52 pm
by New haven america » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:56 pm
by Hammer Britannia » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:58 pm
by Die PreuBen Kaiserreich » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:00 pm
New haven america wrote:We could just take out a little bit of the Military's $600+ billion budget and put it into social systems and programs.
Even if we take $100 billion from them, we'd still be the highest spender bar none.
Preußen✙Nachrichten:- ✙ Königliches Familien-Update ✙ : ✙ Kaiser Hans III returns from the PRC, touches down in Koenigsberg ✙
- Fußball-Ergebnisse: BBNM moves on to international stadium
- Weltnachrichten: n/a
by Telconi » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:03 pm
by Militant Costco » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:05 pm
New haven america wrote:We could just take out a little bit of the Military's $600+ billion budget and put it into social systems and programs.
Even if we take $100 billion from them, we'd still be the highest spender bar none.
by Arlenton » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:06 pm
by New haven america » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:08 pm
Militant Costco wrote:New haven america wrote:We could just take out a little bit of the Military's $600+ billion budget and put it into social systems and programs.
Even if we take $100 billion from them, we'd still be the highest spender bar none.
The budget proposal most Dem Soc's propose is a 2% military expenditure, the minimum requirement as requested by NATO, which would only cover $1.9 trillion of the $12.4 trillion the U.S will need and $42.5 trillion down the road. So its not enough. Not to mention any more than that and we're effectively cutting our military in half, which will require lots of planning and care if we don't want another Truman-era military catastrophe.
by Militant Costco » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:09 pm
New haven america wrote:Militant Costco wrote:The budget proposal most Dem Soc's propose is a 2% military expenditure, the minimum requirement as requested by NATO, which would only cover $1.9 trillion of the $12.4 trillion the U.S will need and $42.5 trillion down the road. So its not enough. Not to mention any more than that and we're effectively cutting our military in half, which will require lots of planning and care if we don't want another Truman-era military catastrophe.
Yeah, but I'm not going by their proposal, I'm going by my proposal.
by Xadufell » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:09 pm
Militant Costco wrote:With the blue-tide that is currently sweeping through America and the ever-growing popularity of democratic socialists and their ideals such as Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, I notice that while they go in-depth about their programs and how it will benefit America, they don't go in-depth about how to implement and sustain them.
This article/op-ed by Vox I think sums up a major issue that most moderates are concerned about;
https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2018/8 ... cits-taxes
The major points are for those who can't be bothered to read it is that a single-payer healthcare system, social security expansion, free colleges, paid-family leave, guaranteed $15 an hour job with benefits, $1 trillion infrastructure program and repaying of student loan debts, all major issues and programs for Democratic Socialists, would cost $42.5 trillion over the next decade and put down a $12.4 trillion deficit immediately and current plans such as raising taxes and lowering the defense budget would not cover the debt unless Americans and corporations are willing to shell out 100% of their income and/or a 87% VAT.
So what are your ideas for paying for all of this? I especially want to know from a democratic socialists POV since most of the time when finances are bought up in debate about socialism it occurs in right-leaning threads and it turns into a screaming match that the mods eventually have to get involved in.
Grinning Dragon wrote:Why would anyone waste a good bullet on the likes of CNN anyway? I don't understand why anyone would get that worked up over a bunch of dipshits, christ if their shit show is getting you that worked up, just turn the damn thing off and go for a walk/run/ride.
by Strength and Order » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:12 pm
by Militant Costco » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:13 pm
Xadufell wrote:Militant Costco wrote:With the blue-tide that is currently sweeping through America and the ever-growing popularity of democratic socialists and their ideals such as Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, I notice that while they go in-depth about their programs and how it will benefit America, they don't go in-depth about how to implement and sustain them.
This article/op-ed by Vox I think sums up a major issue that most moderates are concerned about;
https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2018/8 ... cits-taxes
The major points are for those who can't be bothered to read it is that a single-payer healthcare system, social security expansion, free colleges, paid-family leave, guaranteed $15 an hour job with benefits, $1 trillion infrastructure program and repaying of student loan debts, all major issues and programs for Democratic Socialists, would cost $42.5 trillion over the next decade and put down a $12.4 trillion deficit immediately and current plans such as raising taxes and lowering the defense budget would not cover the debt unless Americans and corporations are willing to shell out 100% of their income and/or a 87% VAT.
So what are your ideas for paying for all of this? I especially want to know from a democratic socialists POV since most of the time when finances are bought up in debate about socialism it occurs in right-leaning threads and it turns into a screaming match that the mods eventually have to get involved in.
Blue tide, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
With Americans being Americans, you're not likely to see anything with any relation to Socialism being standard. You're also not going to have it paid for. With the current American debt, only extreme measures can be taken to pay for any of the aforementioned policies and most Americans are not going to like it.
by Valrifell » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:14 pm
by Militant Costco » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:15 pm
Arlenton wrote:You don't pay for it, because it doesn't happen. Worse case scenario is Democratic waves in 2018 and 2020 followed by some watered down program, like the ACA, that overall sucks followed by a GOP wave in 2022 then gridlock.
by New haven america » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:18 pm
Xadufell wrote:Militant Costco wrote:With the blue-tide that is currently sweeping through America and the ever-growing popularity of democratic socialists and their ideals such as Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, I notice that while they go in-depth about their programs and how it will benefit America, they don't go in-depth about how to implement and sustain them.
This article/op-ed by Vox I think sums up a major issue that most moderates are concerned about;
https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2018/8 ... cits-taxes
The major points are for those who can't be bothered to read it is that a single-payer healthcare system, social security expansion, free colleges, paid-family leave, guaranteed $15 an hour job with benefits, $1 trillion infrastructure program and repaying of student loan debts, all major issues and programs for Democratic Socialists, would cost $42.5 trillion over the next decade and put down a $12.4 trillion deficit immediately and current plans such as raising taxes and lowering the defense budget would not cover the debt unless Americans and corporations are willing to shell out 100% of their income and/or a 87% VAT.
So what are your ideas for paying for all of this? I especially want to know from a democratic socialists POV since most of the time when finances are bought up in debate about socialism it occurs in right-leaning threads and it turns into a screaming match that the mods eventually have to get involved in.
Blue tide, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
With Americans being Americans, you're not likely to see anything with any relation to Socialism being standard. You're also not going to have it paid for. With the current American debt, only extreme measures can be taken to pay for any of the aforementioned policies and most Americans are not going to like it.
by Militant Costco » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:18 pm
Valrifell wrote:Hey let's raise taxes.
Okay sorry I'll leave.
by Rhein-Hesse » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:19 pm
by Impaled Nazarene » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:20 pm
Kiaculta wrote:Oh, Kar, you silly sack of shit.
Soviet Haaregrad wrote:Bickering ist krieg.
Infected Mushroom wrote:isn't this a bit extreme?
Finland SSR wrote:"Many dictatorships are oligarchies.
Many democracies are oligarchies.
Therefore, many dictatorships are democracies."
-said no one ever. I made these words up.
Genivaria wrote:"WHY!? Why do this!? Thousands of planets and trillions of innocent lives gone! For what!?"
"It seemed like fun at the time."
by Strength and Order » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:20 pm
by Rhein-Hesse » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:22 pm
Strength and Order wrote:It seems a lot of people are confusing Social Democracy for Democratic Socialism in this thread.
by Strength and Order » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:23 pm
Rhein-Hesse wrote:Strength and Order wrote:It seems a lot of people are confusing Social Democracy for Democratic Socialism in this thread.
Correct me if I'm wrong but democratic socialism is equivalent to 'the Nordic model', so an emphasis on welfare, universal health care, maintaining a mixed economy and private enterprise. Whilst social democracy is just socialism with democratic processes?
by Militant Costco » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:23 pm
Rhein-Hesse wrote:I think that on one hand, yes this is a pressing issue for many Dem Socs. However, I'd argue relatively few are asking for every single thing you mentioned in the OP. For some healthcare, is the issue, for others, it's college tuition and for some, it's a multitude. But for obvious reasons very few people are asking for all 42.5 trillion $ worth of reform.
by Rhein-Hesse » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:24 pm
Strength and Order wrote:Rhein-Hesse wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but democratic socialism is equivalent to 'the Nordic model', so an emphasis on welfare, universal health care, maintaining a mixed economy and private enterprise. Whilst social democracy is just socialism with democratic processes?
No, you got that backwards.
by Impaled Nazarene » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:25 pm
Rhein-Hesse wrote:Strength and Order wrote:It seems a lot of people are confusing Social Democracy for Democratic Socialism in this thread.
Correct me if I'm wrong but democratic socialism is equivalent to 'the Nordic model', so an emphasis on welfare, universal health care, maintaining a mixed economy and private enterprise. Whilst social democracy is just socialism with democratic processes?
Kiaculta wrote:Oh, Kar, you silly sack of shit.
Soviet Haaregrad wrote:Bickering ist krieg.
Infected Mushroom wrote:isn't this a bit extreme?
Finland SSR wrote:"Many dictatorships are oligarchies.
Many democracies are oligarchies.
Therefore, many dictatorships are democracies."
-said no one ever. I made these words up.
Genivaria wrote:"WHY!? Why do this!? Thousands of planets and trillions of innocent lives gone! For what!?"
"It seemed like fun at the time."
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