Derscon wrote:So?
Basically, what I'm getting is that "People can have self-determination, unless I don't like their opinions." Cool story bro.
I don't know where you're getting that from.
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by Bryn Shander » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:09 pm
Vervaria wrote:Derscon wrote:So?
Basically, what I'm getting is that "People can have self-determination, unless I don't like their opinions." Cool story bro.
Slavery was the straw that broke the camel's back, yes, and the direct cause of secession. However, it is intensely intellectually dishonest to lay everything on the backs of "They just want to whip them negro folk." Did the states secede because of slavery? Yes. Was the War of Northern Aggression fought because of slavery? Not by a long shot.
Funny, I seem to recall reading something about the South firing on Federal property.....
by Vervaria » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:09 pm
Bryn Shander wrote:Vervaria wrote:Derscon wrote:So?
Basically, what I'm getting is that "People can have self-determination, unless I don't like their opinions." Cool story bro.
Slavery was the straw that broke the camel's back, yes, and the direct cause of secession. However, it is intensely intellectually dishonest to lay everything on the backs of "They just want to whip them negro folk." Did the states secede because of slavery? Yes. Was the War of Northern Aggression fought because of slavery? Not by a long shot.
Funny, I seem to recall reading something about the South firing on Federal property.....
Funny, I seem to recall Yankee troops squatting on Confederate property.
Robustian wrote:If you disagree with me, you are wrong. Period.
Ashmoria wrote:it worries me more when people who hate the government and dont think it can do a good job at anything get into power and start running things.
Wanderjar wrote:hiding behind this "I WANT SOURCES" wall is very quaint
Self--Esteem wrote:No. I love smearing those people who evidently like their country blown by a nuke and who are too foolish to realise that middle-eastern terrorism is nothing to be fond of.
Novistranaya wrote:After the Civil War, the majority of Southerners were more than happy to accept defeat and acknowledge the fact that (though not immediately) blacks were going to have the same rights as them.
by Maurepas » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:09 pm
Yootopia wrote:Maurepas wrote:New Orleans was the most prosperous city, but, it was largely only prosperous for itself, through the port and the various gambling/bars involved, still is to this day really...
That cotton's worth nothing to the CSA if they can't get it out of the country, and New Orleans was about the best port to sell from. That's why they were absolutely shafted after the situation there fell out of the Confederacy's hands.
by My 3rd Floor Flat » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:10 pm
Yootopia wrote:Mmm yes, please take everything I said and multiply it ad retardedum.
The USA and CSA shared a land border, the USA and UK didn't. As soon as you get random states popping up all over the place in fairly established states, Things Start To Go Wrong. See the entirely unsurprising takeover of Mexico by European powers while the US was distracted. The US was already approaching its proper size by the time of the Civil War, unlike when it was just some shitty towns that wanted to secede.
If you're right next to a country in which Things Are Going Wrong, people are going to be a lot more understanding if you go in and change it than if it's all the way across the sea, especially when that changing is being done against a bunch of hicks who are propping up the slave trade at a time when it was not in fashion.
This is why the US seceeding from the UK was seen by the international community, and has been recorded in posterity, as an Alright Thing, and why the CSA getting its arse kicked by its territorial neighbour has also been recorded as Probably A Good Thing.
by Lunatic Goofballs » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:10 pm
Bryn Shander wrote:Vervaria wrote:Derscon wrote:So?
Basically, what I'm getting is that "People can have self-determination, unless I don't like their opinions." Cool story bro.
Slavery was the straw that broke the camel's back, yes, and the direct cause of secession. However, it is intensely intellectually dishonest to lay everything on the backs of "They just want to whip them negro folk." Did the states secede because of slavery? Yes. Was the War of Northern Aggression fought because of slavery? Not by a long shot.
Funny, I seem to recall reading something about the South firing on Federal property.....
Funny, I seem to recall Yankee troops squatting on Confederate property.
by Natapoc » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:10 pm
Derscon wrote:So?
Basically, what I'm getting is that "People can have self-determination, unless I don't like their opinions." Cool story bro.
Slavery was the straw that broke the camel's back, yes, and the direct cause of secession. However, it is intensely intellectually dishonest to lay everything on the backs of "They just want to whip them negro folk." Did the states secede because of slavery? Yes. Was the War of Northern Aggression fought because of slavery? Not by a long shot.
by Panzerjaeger » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:10 pm
Maurepas wrote:Yootopia wrote:Maurepas wrote:New Orleans was the most prosperous city, but, it was largely only prosperous for itself, through the port and the various gambling/bars involved, still is to this day really...
That cotton's worth nothing to the CSA if they can't get it out of the country, and New Orleans was about the best port to sell from. That's why they were absolutely shafted after the situation there fell out of the Confederacy's hands.
yeah, but, the Blockade, and the fact that Britain figured out it's cheaper to get the same thing in India put the nail in that coffin well before New Orleans fell...
And from a Military perspective, the war can, and did, continue long after that economic "advantage" is gone...
Caninope wrote:Toyota: Keep moving forward, even when you don't want to!
Christmahanikwanzikah wrote:Timothy McVeigh casts... Pyrotechnics!
Greater Americania wrote:lol "No Comrade Ivan! Don't stick your head in there! That's the wood chi...!"
New Kereptica wrote:Fascism: because people are too smart nowadays.
by North Suran » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:10 pm
Neu Mitanni wrote:As for NS, his latest statement is grounded in ignorance and contrary to fact, much to the surprise of all NSGers.
Geniasis wrote:The War on Christmas
by Maurepas » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:10 pm
Vervaria wrote:Bryn Shander wrote:Vervaria wrote:Derscon wrote:So?
Basically, what I'm getting is that "People can have self-determination, unless I don't like their opinions." Cool story bro.
Slavery was the straw that broke the camel's back, yes, and the direct cause of secession. However, it is intensely intellectually dishonest to lay everything on the backs of "They just want to whip them negro folk." Did the states secede because of slavery? Yes. Was the War of Northern Aggression fought because of slavery? Not by a long shot.
Funny, I seem to recall reading something about the South firing on Federal property.....
Funny, I seem to recall Yankee troops squatting on Confederate property.
Fort Sumter was Federal, not state property.
by Natapoc » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:11 pm
Lunatic Goofballs wrote:Bryn Shander wrote:Vervaria wrote:Derscon wrote:So?
Basically, what I'm getting is that "People can have self-determination, unless I don't like their opinions." Cool story bro.
Slavery was the straw that broke the camel's back, yes, and the direct cause of secession. However, it is intensely intellectually dishonest to lay everything on the backs of "They just want to whip them negro folk." Did the states secede because of slavery? Yes. Was the War of Northern Aggression fought because of slavery? Not by a long shot.
Funny, I seem to recall reading something about the South firing on Federal property.....
Funny, I seem to recall Yankee troops squatting on Confederate property.
You recall wrong.
by North Suran » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:12 pm
Natapoc wrote:Derscon wrote:So?
Basically, what I'm getting is that "People can have self-determination, unless I don't like their opinions." Cool story bro.
Slavery was the straw that broke the camel's back, yes, and the direct cause of secession. However, it is intensely intellectually dishonest to lay everything on the backs of "They just want to whip them negro folk." Did the states secede because of slavery? Yes. Was the War of Northern Aggression fought because of slavery? Not by a long shot.
Not really. People have the right to self determination. And that is the end of it.
People with darker skin have that right to self determination and always have. Slavery was an institution that violated it in the most extreme ways imaginable. War against the slave owners was not just acceptable or justifiable. It would be unethical to not do everything possible (including acts of violence) to liberate them.
Neu Mitanni wrote:As for NS, his latest statement is grounded in ignorance and contrary to fact, much to the surprise of all NSGers.
Geniasis wrote:The War on Christmas
by Panzerjaeger » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:12 pm
Maurepas wrote:Vervaria wrote:Bryn Shander wrote:Vervaria wrote:Derscon wrote:So?
Basically, what I'm getting is that "People can have self-determination, unless I don't like their opinions." Cool story bro.
Slavery was the straw that broke the camel's back, yes, and the direct cause of secession. However, it is intensely intellectually dishonest to lay everything on the backs of "They just want to whip them negro folk." Did the states secede because of slavery? Yes. Was the War of Northern Aggression fought because of slavery? Not by a long shot.
Funny, I seem to recall reading something about the South firing on Federal property.....
Funny, I seem to recall Yankee troops squatting on Confederate property.
Fort Sumter was Federal, not state property.
And irrelevant, it was in South Carolina, when it seceded, the Federal Government no longer had any authority over it...Anymore than Britain owned its forts in the United States after we declared Independence...
Caninope wrote:Toyota: Keep moving forward, even when you don't want to!
Christmahanikwanzikah wrote:Timothy McVeigh casts... Pyrotechnics!
Greater Americania wrote:lol "No Comrade Ivan! Don't stick your head in there! That's the wood chi...!"
New Kereptica wrote:Fascism: because people are too smart nowadays.
by Techno-Soviet » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:12 pm
Palledonia wrote:Who on here is defending the Confederacy?
by Lunatic Goofballs » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:13 pm
Natapoc wrote:Lunatic Goofballs wrote:Bryn Shander wrote:Vervaria wrote:Derscon wrote:So?
Basically, what I'm getting is that "People can have self-determination, unless I don't like their opinions." Cool story bro.
Slavery was the straw that broke the camel's back, yes, and the direct cause of secession. However, it is intensely intellectually dishonest to lay everything on the backs of "They just want to whip them negro folk." Did the states secede because of slavery? Yes. Was the War of Northern Aggression fought because of slavery? Not by a long shot.
Funny, I seem to recall reading something about the South firing on Federal property.....
Funny, I seem to recall Yankee troops squatting on Confederate property.
You recall wrong.
That was me... I went back in time and pooped on their lawn.
by Melkor Unchained » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:14 pm
Phenia wrote:Melkor Unchained wrote:But has anyone pointed out yet (especially after all this talk about Britain) that slavery began under European rule, and that the colonies were set up to depend on it? Not that I'm defending the practice, but I can't help but roll my eyes when Europeans wax judgmental on American race relations. Not saying that's happening in this thread, but I find it intensely hypocritical when Euros scold us over slavery when they were still slaughtering Africans well after the US Civil war.
They had however outlawed slavery before the US did.
And it's not as if the US wasn't slaughtering people in the name of imperialism after the ACW. Philippine-American War for example. The "pacification campaign."
by Panzerjaeger » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:18 pm
Caninope wrote:Toyota: Keep moving forward, even when you don't want to!
Christmahanikwanzikah wrote:Timothy McVeigh casts... Pyrotechnics!
Greater Americania wrote:lol "No Comrade Ivan! Don't stick your head in there! That's the wood chi...!"
New Kereptica wrote:Fascism: because people are too smart nowadays.
by Natapoc » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:18 pm
by Phenia » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:19 pm
Maurepas wrote:Vervaria wrote:Bryn Shander wrote:Vervaria wrote:Derscon wrote:So?
Basically, what I'm getting is that "People can have self-determination, unless I don't like their opinions." Cool story bro.
Slavery was the straw that broke the camel's back, yes, and the direct cause of secession. However, it is intensely intellectually dishonest to lay everything on the backs of "They just want to whip them negro folk." Did the states secede because of slavery? Yes. Was the War of Northern Aggression fought because of slavery? Not by a long shot.
Funny, I seem to recall reading something about the South firing on Federal property.....
Funny, I seem to recall Yankee troops squatting on Confederate property.
Fort Sumter was Federal, not state property.
And irrelevant, it was in South Carolina, when it seceded, the Federal Government no longer had any authority over it...Anymore than Britain owned its forts in the United States after we declared Independence...
by Lacadaemon » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:19 pm
Melkor Unchained wrote:Yeah, but not that long before. If Europe abolished slavery 100 years earlier and didn't practice violent colonialism, I'd probably respect their criticism a bit more than I presently do. But to say, in effect, that we're morally inferior because we didn't abolish a system that at least half of our country was built to rely on "soon enough" is what really grates me, especially considering many Europeans' blithe ignorance about what their own governments were doing at the exact same time.
by Vervaria » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:19 pm
Maurepas wrote:Vervaria wrote:Bryn Shander wrote:Vervaria wrote:Derscon wrote:So?
Basically, what I'm getting is that "People can have self-determination, unless I don't like their opinions." Cool story bro.
Slavery was the straw that broke the camel's back, yes, and the direct cause of secession. However, it is intensely intellectually dishonest to lay everything on the backs of "They just want to whip them negro folk." Did the states secede because of slavery? Yes. Was the War of Northern Aggression fought because of slavery? Not by a long shot.
Funny, I seem to recall reading something about the South firing on Federal property.....
Funny, I seem to recall Yankee troops squatting on Confederate property.
Fort Sumter was Federal, not state property.
And irrelevant, it was in South Carolina, when it seceded, the Federal Government no longer had any authority over it...Anymore than Britain owned its forts in the United States after we declared Independence...
Robustian wrote:If you disagree with me, you are wrong. Period.
Ashmoria wrote:it worries me more when people who hate the government and dont think it can do a good job at anything get into power and start running things.
Wanderjar wrote:hiding behind this "I WANT SOURCES" wall is very quaint
Self--Esteem wrote:No. I love smearing those people who evidently like their country blown by a nuke and who are too foolish to realise that middle-eastern terrorism is nothing to be fond of.
Novistranaya wrote:After the Civil War, the majority of Southerners were more than happy to accept defeat and acknowledge the fact that (though not immediately) blacks were going to have the same rights as them.
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