And they can do so. They can opt out.
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by Neutraligon » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:49 pm
by His Excellence » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:49 pm
Soldati Senza Confini wrote:now arguing that the dignity of a dead person who wishes in life not to be desecrated is irrelevant just because they are dead.
by Walpurgisnach » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:49 pm
USS Monitor wrote:Walpurgisnach wrote:
Does the fact that lives are at stake allow us to violate people's civil rights?
The dead don't care because they are dead, so this is pretty low priority as a civil rights issue. If someone is bothered by the idea while they're still alive, they have the chance to do something about it and opt out.
by Napkiraly » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:49 pm
Ifreann wrote:Why should people have to give consent for what is done with their own bodies instead of it being assumed?
Irrelevant.Given that the people in question will be dead,
They have never given consent in life, ergo you cannot assume consent is given at all. Consent has to be explicitly given.that assuming their consent will see their organs used to save lives instead of feeding worms,
"She didn't say yes, but she also didn't say no, so it's okay that I assumed she wanted the D".why should consent need to be given instead of assumed?
by Kramanica » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:50 pm
by Soldati Senza Confini » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:50 pm
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.
by Luminesa » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:51 pm
Soldati Senza Confini wrote:You know, I find it interesting how the same people who hold pregnancies as the prerogative of the subject who is pregnant are now arguing that the dignity of a dead person who wishes in life not to be desecrated is irrelevant just because they are dead.
by Ifreann » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:52 pm
Walpurgisnach wrote:Neutraligon wrote:How are people's civil rights being violated?
It is not up to the government to decide what happens to your body after you die. People have the right to determine what happens to their body after they die. If you can assume consent for organ harvesting, you may as well assume consent for sexual intercourse. From a rights perspective, this is equivalent to necrophilia.
by Soldati Senza Confini » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:52 pm
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.
by Walpurgisnach » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:52 pm
by Soldati Senza Confini » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:53 pm
Ifreann wrote:Walpurgisnach wrote:
It is not up to the government to decide what happens to your body after you die. People have the right to determine what happens to their body after they die. If you can assume consent for organ harvesting, you may as well assume consent for sexual intercourse. From a rights perspective, this is equivalent to necrophilia.
You know that doctors already assume consent in some cases, yeah?Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
A person's body, in life, remains for the person to state what they want for their bodies to happen after death.
It's their body, hence it is their choice as to how their body is to be used, or not used.
And if they'd rather not donate their organs, they can opt-out.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.
by Luminesa » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:53 pm
by Luminesa » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:54 pm
by Grinning Dragon » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:54 pm
by Soldati Senza Confini » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:55 pm
Luminesa wrote:Soldati Senza Confini wrote:You know, I find it interesting how the same people who hold pregnancies as the prerogative of the subject who is pregnant are now arguing that the dignity of a dead person who wishes in life not to be desecrated is irrelevant just because they are dead.
It’s funny also because I’ve been told in abortion threads that there are laws in place saying I don’t have to give my kidney even if the other person is dying. And then people defended those laws. All of a sudden the same crowd is saying, “BUT YOU HAVE TO.”
Me? I don’t see a problem with the law. But consistency is consistency. Let your ‘yes’ be ‘yes’ and your ‘no’ be ‘no’.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.
by His Excellence » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:55 pm
Soldati Senza Confini wrote:This very thread's posters for this proves you otherwise.
by Neutraligon » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:56 pm
Soldati Senza Confini wrote:Neutraligon wrote:And they can do so. They can opt out.
Opting out is pretty dumb for this to be fair.
Not many people have the time, or the money, to want to go through many legal problems, particularly when it comes to their death wishes being respected.
Opting in is the better way to go about organ donations, because there are no moral quandaries based on class. In this effect, you are essentially giving license to desecrate the poor's death wishes.
by Walpurgisnach » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:56 pm
Soldati Senza Confini wrote:Luminesa wrote:It’s funny also because I’ve been told in abortion threads that there are laws in place saying I don’t have to give my kidney even if the other person is dying. And then people defended those laws. All of a sudden the same crowd is saying, “BUT YOU HAVE TO.”
Me? I don’t see a problem with the law. But consistency is consistency. Let your ‘yes’ be ‘yes’ and your ‘no’ be ‘no’.
Agreed, this inconsistency actually is bothersome.
Mostly because this means people are okay with assuming consent unless it is things people consider personal, and that is inconsistent and, frankly, quite hypocritical.
by Luminesa » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:56 pm
Grinning Dragon wrote:In one token, I understand that organs are needed and the idea behind, once your dead you no longer have a need of those organs and can be transplanted into a person who is in need.
The other token I have an issue with, is the idea that somehow a govt has a right to dictate the removal of a dead person's organs as if they were property.
With that said, I have signed up to be an organ donor.
by Neutraligon » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:57 pm
Luminesa wrote:Grinning Dragon wrote:In one token, I understand that organs are needed and the idea behind, once your dead you no longer have a need of those organs and can be transplanted into a person who is in need.
The other token I have an issue with, is the idea that somehow a govt has a right to dictate the removal of a dead person's organs as if they were property.
With that said, I have signed up to be an organ donor.
I have yet to do so myself, but I do donate blood as often as I can. Once I actually get my license I’ll probably do so.
by Aclion » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:58 pm
by Sick Jumps » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:58 pm
Consider the difference in consent rates between two similar countries, Austria and Germany. In Germany, which uses an opt-in system, only 12 percent give their consent; in Austria, which uses opt-out, nearly everyone (99 percent) does.
by Walpurgisnach » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:58 pm
Neutraligon wrote:Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
Opting out is pretty dumb for this to be fair.
Not many people have the time, or the money, to want to go through many legal problems, particularly when it comes to their death wishes being respected.
Opting in is the better way to go about organ donations, because there are no moral quandaries based on class. In this effect, you are essentially giving license to desecrate the poor's death wishes.
THere is a reason I said that if they do this the method of opting out has to be free, highly advertised and easily accessed.
by Luminesa » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:58 pm
Neutraligon wrote:Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
Opting out is pretty dumb for this to be fair.
Not many people have the time, or the money, to want to go through many legal problems, particularly when it comes to their death wishes being respected.
Opting in is the better way to go about organ donations, because there are no moral quandaries based on class. In this effect, you are essentially giving license to desecrate the poor's death wishes.
THere is a reason I said that if they do this the method of opting out has to be free, highly advertised and easily accessed.
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