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Woman Dictators

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Trumptonium1
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Founded: Apr 03, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Trumptonium1 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:33 pm

The woman from Tannu Tuva was the only objective dictator everyone can agree on.

Indira not too sure. Indira ruled with a very firm hand and regularly arrested opposition members, it would be reasonable to accuse her of dictatorship.

Non-dictatorial but authoritarian one-man leaders can be found in Margaret Thatcher and Golda Meir, who basically had a cabinet system unlike their predecessors that more or less gave them full executive power willingly or in apathy.
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Sovaal
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Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Sovaal » Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:35 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Sovaal wrote:And I would argue that those are extremely traditional power strucutres, at least in modern society. Revolution and political turmoil are as old as civilisation it'self I would bet.

That's not usually what we would refer to as traditional power structures, as they're both thoroughly modern.

Than I guess I'll need a better word.
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United Muscovite Nations
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Founded: Feb 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby United Muscovite Nations » Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:44 pm

Sovaal wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:That's not usually what we would refer to as traditional power structures, as they're both thoroughly modern.

Than I guess I'll need a better word.

Yeah, I agree that they're fairly traditional for modernity, but we still should remember that they, for the most part, came into existence since the year 1500.
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Senkaku
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Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Senkaku » Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:12 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:I’m sure I’m not the only one with a fascination of dictators. Even as a staunch defender of democracy, the concept of them is interesting to me. The idealogy, the cult of personality, the idea that one strong force could try to use raw strength to rule a nation, the uniforms, the fancy titles. It’s all great
But one thing I’ve noticed is that many dictators happen to be of the male persuasion. So many, in fact, that on the top of my head I couldn’t name one woman dictator
And so I went and scoured the internet for any examples, and what I turned up was....Margaret Thatcher and Indira Ghandi. Now not being either British or Indian I frankly don’t really know much about their careers, so Im not sure I can really weigh in on that, except a quick Wikipedia read has me thinking Indira probably was. But well, let’s here what mighty NSG thinks.
First a definition
Dictator
a : a person granted absolute emergency power; especially, history : one appointed by the senate (see senate 1a) of ancient Rome
b : one holding complete autocratic control : a person with unlimited governmental power
c : one ruling in an absolute (see absolute 2) and often oppressive way

And with that I’d say we’re set, so NSG, we’re there any female dictators? Who? What about them makes them a dictator?

a : a person granted absolute emergency power; especially, history : one appointed by the senate (see senate 1a) of ancient Rome
b : one holding complete autocratic control : a person with unlimited governmental power
c : one ruling in an absolute (see absolute 2) and often oppressive way


Catherine the Great, Ranavalona I, and Empress Dowager Cixi would be examples of female rulers fitting these qualities from (relatively) recent history- more recently, Jiang Qing of China didn't rule alone but she was certainly a very influential member of the Gang of Four, Indira Gandhi as you mentioned certainly subverted democracy to a very considerable degree, especially during the Emergency (Sirimavo Bandaranaike did so to a much lesser extent in Sri Lanka, AFAIK- not absolute power though), I wouldn't say Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo was a dictator but like Bandaranaike (or sorta like Indira, though Indira took things a lot further) she had the whole state of emergency thing going on, plus coming to power in a coup-ish situation and staying in power after she said she wouldn't (though she also didn't hold anything close to absolute power), and then there are ancient rulers like Wu Zetian or whatever too. Bandaranaike, Macapagal-Arroyo, and Jiang all had peaceful (or at least bloodless, in Jiang's case) transfers of power, and I don't personally think any could be described as dictators in their own right (especially the first two) but I think help illustrate the point that female rulers have exercised authoritarian powers and flirted with authoritarianism and dictatorship even in the modern era, just as they have through history, even if the comparable men are far more numerous.

The line between dictator and just authoritarian is kinda blurred, too- some actions undertaken during a state of emergency might spur cries of dictatorship in America, but elsewhere they're just politics as usual.
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Neu Leonstein
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Ex-Nation

Postby Neu Leonstein » Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:16 pm

This thread reminds of that NBER paper from a couple of years ago: https://www.nber.org/papers/w23337
“Every age and generation must be as free to act for itself in all cases as the age and generations which preceded it. The vanity and presumption of governing beyond the grave is the most ridiculous and insolent of all tyrannies. Man has no property in man; neither has any generation a property in the generations which are to follow.”
~ Thomas Paine

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Saiwania
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Founded: Jun 30, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Saiwania » Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:58 pm

Page wrote:That definitely doesn't describe any dictator I know of and it doesn't describe many democratically elected leaders either.


The motivation for benevolence is if a leader genuinely has some interest in governance. To keep their national population willingly compliant or happy with their regime or policies.

It of course, doesn't make sense to give "the people" everything they want, but with a few exceptions; dictators generally speaking can't literally do anything they want without risking being overthrown or pissing too many people off as to risk assassination attempts and so forth. To have a firm grip on power, a combination of fear or love is used. A leader needs the support of an inner circle and etc. To curry favor, even if they're like Stalin and have most of the power that can be obtained. This is how politics works and is done.
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