[POLL] How important are the (working) poor to our society?

[Patridam]

Since it looks that this thread - or, if we're honest, this entire website given most of our members unwavering opinions - is not a suitable place to discuss economic systems in general, I thought I might just want to instead share something more directly relevant to the poll.

I've grown up in a family that could be, at varying points, described as anywhere from the precariat to the lower class by this polls somewhat arbitrary definitions. This isn't because of some massive system that forcibly repressed my parents or something like that, it was honestly because they were hippies with poor work ethics.

They have college degrees - paid for by their families back in the 70s - but have never used them because they are in fairly useless subjects. Okay, fair enough, that happens now. Dad alternated between consistent unemployment of laying around the house, to self-employment as a mechanic with no timetable or followthrough that left little to no customers. His most successful times were when he had part ownership in a used car dealership, which went under with cash-for-clunkers. He had similar earnings potential as a salesman at other dealerships, but had such a firm attitude of anti-authority that he couldn't stand a boss. Mom meanwhile, was for a while a part-time clerk at liquor stores, but was eventually promoted to our state liquor store system headquarters at a cushy, well-paying office job with good benefits. But she didn't last at that, too concerned she was becoming a "yuppie."

The observation I can make from this is that they both had opportunities to earn more, and make for a more comfortable life for them and their family, but they never lasted due to.... honestly, laziness; as well as principles, perverse or not. Not everyone in poverty is kept down by "the man." In fact, most aren't.

It was just as well to me, I never saw the results of their incomes. Mom spent her money on wine and shoes and designer clothes. Dad spent his excess income on a mistress, weed, and half-assed midlife crisis cars. I was still in the same tiny bedroom with no closet in a house that was 100 degrees in summer with A/C and 50 degrees in winter with only a wood stove heat; still doing my laundry at a coin laundromat instead of having a washer and dryer; still wearing clothes from the Salvation army; still getting luxuries like video games through my own scrounged money or members of extended family. Just because people make more money doesn't mean they know how to spend it wisely.

I don't know if there's a point here about the nature of classes and economic advancement in our society, but it has taught me in my life to not be - god bless them - like my parents; and embraced hard study in a relatively unpleasant major, got the most stable and high earning job possible. I will pay off my student debts as quickly as possible, maintain a small but well equipped apartment, and keep my 25 year old car until I can buy a newer one outright. So I resent the idea of social redistribution, that I, after my work, will have to give a significant portion of my income which I have a good idea how to safely spend, to the government, which it can absorb 50% of in administration fees, to give the rest to those like my parents who won't know how to spend it. Even if you'll complain about me someday as a capitalist pig for daring to try to reward myself in "luxurious decadence" with something like a used luxury car.

[Great Minarchistan]

1. A book all about the working poor in society, Interesting article with more sources talking about the myth that is meritocracy in the US, and the more people work the less they tend to make

It'd be better if you gave charts or tables on it.

It should be obvious though, as the minimum wage usually earned through hard work is becoming worth less and less as time goes on, or that physical and backbreaking labor is far harder on the body than sitting around in meetings or working on the computer, but apparently you haven't taken economic or anatomy classes...

Physical effort is rarely a way to measure compensation, intellectual effort on the other hand...

That, or you've been rich enough that you've never had to work or understand how hard it is to earn money. Both are easily possible.

Could you project Infinity War in my computer? I'm too lazy to go to the movie theater, but your implications surely show that you have a great potential of projection.

2. Not true on either account

Of course, because being a plumber and being a CEO demands equal equivalent of skill and effort

3. a. I like how if something doesn't conform to your POV then you can't do anything else but scream "Salt!" or "Triggered!" and then expect people to respect or take your arguments

I'm a sweet person, don't come up with me as a cocky edgelord and we are on an equal playing field.

B. And how do you expect people to get higher education or develop skills if they need to work over 40 hours a week and don't have time to?

Ah, the burden of being a full-time college student over four years just to enjoy financial relief over the remaining period of activity in your life... Not that there aren't college courses nowadays that are mostly digital, anyway.

Yet again, you don't understand what living paycheck to paycheck means, and you make it more and more obvious every time you talk about this subject that you don't know what you're talking about. It'd be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Workers in the 1950s and 1960s earned and consumed a lot less than current American citizens, yet managed to save twice as much. The problem isn't how much you earn, but how much of your lifestyle are you willing to dispose of in order to guarantee long-term financial relief (as per time preference).

[New haven america]

1. A book all about the working poor in society, Interesting article with more sources talking about the myth that is meritocracy in the US, and the more people work the less they tend to make

1. It'd be better if you gave charts or tables on it.

It should be obvious though, as the minimum wage usually earned through hard work is becoming worth less and less as time goes on, or that physical and backbreaking labor is far harder on the body than sitting around in meetings or working on the computer, but apparently you haven't taken economic or anatomy classes...

2.Physical effort is rarely a way to measure compensation, intellectual effort on the other hand...

That, or you've been rich enough that you've never had to work or understand how hard it is to earn money. Both are easily possible.

3.Could you project Infinity War in my computer? I'm too lazy to go to the movie theater, but your implications surely show that you have a great potential of projection.

1. Or you could actually read the charts and explanations provided in the sources.
2. Maybe in your little bubble, sure, but not IRL
3. Got it you don't know jack shit about what you're talking about, thanks for admitting it~ (And making any future arguments you have complete fucking worthless)

[Great Minarchistan]

1. Or you could actually read the charts and explanations provided in the sources.

cba to do that

2. Maybe in your little bubble, sure, but not IRL

*sniff* I love the smell of straw in the morning.

3. Got it you don't know jack shit about what you're talking about, thanks for admitting it~ (And making any future arguments you have complete fucking worthless)

If you're afraid of getting beaten down by empirical observation then no need to flee in the hard way, just admit that you're wrong and take the backdoor instead, bud.

[New haven america]

3. Got it you don't know jack shit about what you're talking about, thanks for admitting it~ (And making any future arguments you have complete fucking worthless)

If you're afraid of getting beaten down by empirical observation then no need to flee in the hard way, just admit that you're wrong and take the backdoor instead, bud.

No see, you've just proven that you don't understand how hard it is to be poor or have to do hard work, which isn't surprising, and considering you don't understand how hard it is, then none of your arguments in this issue hold any weight. You can still argue that you know what you're talking about, but you don't know, which will forever make your arguments hilarious to see.

Also, you never provided sources to your own claims, so you're not one to talk.

[Oil exporting People]

If you're afraid of getting beaten down by empirical observation then no need to flee in the hard way, just admit that you're wrong and take the backdoor instead, bud.

No see, you've just proven that you don't understand how hard it is poor or have to do hard work, which isn't surprising, and considering you don't understand how hard it is, then none of your arguments in this issue hold any weight. You can still argue that you know what you're talking about, but you don't know, which will forever make your arguments hilarious to see.

Also, you never provided sources to your own claims, so you're not one to talk.

The amount of projection here is hilarious.

[Torrocca]

3. Got it you don't know jack shit about what you're talking about, thanks for admitting it~ (And making any future arguments you have complete fucking worthless)

If you're afraid of getting beaten down by empirical observation then no need to flee in the hard way, just admit that you're wrong and take the backdoor instead, bud.

Love how much this reads like internet tough guy talk lmao. "Afraid of getting beaten down with d a t a, champ? You can take the easy way out instead of running like a total coward, sport. "

[New haven america]

If you're afraid of getting beaten down by empirical observation then no need to flee in the hard way, just admit that you're wrong and take the backdoor instead, bud.

Love how much this reads like internet tough guy talk lmao. "Afraid of getting beaten down with d a t a, champ? You can take the easy way out instead of running like a total coward, sport. "

What makes it even better is that he didn't provide any sources for his claim that richer people work harder.

[Great Minarchistan]

No see, you've just proven that you don't understand how hard it is to be poor or have to do hard work, which isn't surprising

I live in a taxed out third world country, your country's middle class is far richer than me lol

and considering you don't understand how hard it is, then none of your arguments in this issue hold any weight.

In these modern times, anecdotal evidence carries no weight to your observations.

You can still argue that you know what you're talking about, but you don't know, which will forever make your arguments hilarious to see.

It's not my fault if you're arrogant enough to refuse the superiority of analysis done by data over anecdotes on macroeconomic issues.

Also, you never provided sources to your own claims, so you're not one to talk.

You never asked for them, but since you did now:

[Torrocca]

No see, you've just proven that you don't understand how hard it is to be poor or have to do hard work, which isn't surprising

I live in a taxed out third world country, your country's middle class is far richer than me lol

So, you're saying you're rich where you live, but would relatively be seen as poor by American standards... except, not really, because of all the differences in costs of living, monetary value, etc.

Really, you're going, "woe is me!" as people starve below you. EDIT: and it's specifically because you wouldn't be seen as "middle class" in a country with a completely different socioeconomic dynamic to your own, even though you're fucking rich in your own damn country.

[Great Minarchistan]

So, you're saying you're rich where you live

TIL that being middle middle/upper middle is rich

but would relatively be seen as poor by American standards... except, not really, because of all the differences in costs of living, monetary value, etc.

Implying I didn't factor those in

Really, you're going, "woe is me!" as people starve below you. EDIT: and it's specifically because you wouldn't be seen as "middle class" in a country with a completely different socioeconomic dynamic to your own, even though you're fucking rich in your own damn country.

Am I fucking rich? Go fuck yourself with your own assumptions.

[Torrocca]

So, you're saying you're rich where you live

TIL that being middle middle/upper middle is rich

but would relatively be seen as poor by American standards... except, not really, because of all the differences in costs of living, monetary value, etc.

Implying I didn't factor those in

Really, you're going, "woe is me!" as people starve below you. EDIT: and it's specifically because you wouldn't be seen as "middle class" in a country with a completely different socioeconomic dynamic to your own, even though you're fucking rich in your own damn country.

Am I fucking rich? Go fuck yourself with your own assumptions.

You're probably living a far better life than probably 99% or so of everyone else in your country with the economic class you're in, that's for sure.

[Ransium]

So, you're saying you're rich where you live

TIL that being middle middle/upper middle is rich

but would relatively be seen as poor by American standards... except, not really, because of all the differences in costs of living, monetary value, etc.

Implying I didn't factor those in

Really, you're going, "woe is me!" as people starve below you. EDIT: and it's specifically because you wouldn't be seen as "middle class" in a country with a completely different socioeconomic dynamic to your own, even though you're fucking rich in your own damn country.

Am I fucking rich? Go fuck yourself with your own assumptions.

*** 1-day ban for flaming. ***

[Jabberwocky]

A few of those categories could be condensed. The working class enables the rich.

[Francoli]

Since it looks that this thread - or, if we're honest, this entire website given most of our members unwavering opinions - is not a suitable place to discuss economic systems in general, I thought I might just want to instead share something more directly relevant to the poll.

I've grown up in a family that could be, at varying points, described as anywhere from the precariat to the lower class by this polls somewhat arbitrary definitions. This isn't because of some massive system that forcibly repressed my parents or something like that, it was honestly because they were hippies with poor work ethics.

They have college degrees - paid for by their families back in the 70s - but have never used them because they are in fairly useless subjects. Okay, fair enough, that happens now. Dad alternated between consistent unemployment of laying around the house, to self-employment as a mechanic with no timetable or followthrough that left little to no customers. His most successful times were when he had part ownership in a used car dealership, which went under with cash-for-clunkers. He had similar earnings potential as a salesman at other dealerships, but had such a firm attitude of anti-authority that he couldn't stand a boss. Mom meanwhile, was for a while a part-time clerk at liquor stores, but was eventually promoted to our state liquor store system headquarters at a cushy, well-paying office job with good benefits. But she didn't last at that, too concerned she was becoming a "yuppie."

The observation I can make from this is that they both had opportunities to earn more, and make for a more comfortable life for them and their family, but they never lasted due to.... honestly, laziness; as well as principles, perverse or not. Not everyone in poverty is kept down by "the man." In fact, most aren't.

It was just as well to me, I never saw the results of their incomes. Mom spent her money on wine and shoes and designer clothes. Dad spent his excess income on a mistress, weed, and half-assed midlife crisis cars. I was still in the same tiny bedroom with no closet in a house that was 100 degrees in summer with A/C and 50 degrees in winter with only a wood stove heat; still doing my laundry at a coin laundromat instead of having a washer and dryer; still wearing clothes from the Salvation army; still getting luxuries like video games through my own scrounged money or members of extended family. Just because people make more money doesn't mean they know how to spend it wisely.

I don't know if there's a point here about the nature of classes and economic advancement in our society, but it has taught me in my life to not be - god bless them - like my parents; and embraced hard study in a relatively unpleasant major, got the most stable and high earning job possible. I will pay off my student debts as quickly as possible, maintain a small but well equipped apartment, and keep my 25 year old car until I can buy a newer one outright. So I resent the idea of social redistribution, that I, after my work, will have to give a significant portion of my income which I have a good idea how to safely spend, to the government, which it can absorb 50% of in administration fees, to give the rest to those like my parents who won't know how to spend it. Even if you'll complain about me someday as a capitalist pig for daring to try to reward myself in "luxurious decadence" with something like a used luxury car.

Left leaning college state ey? You sound like a libertarian to me Ya, opportunities are limitless in the 21st century. I don't have much sympathy for the poor unless they're at a medical disadvantage or in some shitty third world country.

If you live in America, have two hands and two feet, and retain your vision and mind don't bitch about your situation imo. Just lift yourself out of it or don't and live with it. Don't expect the tax payer to finance your failure I say.

[Petrolheadia]

Since it looks that this thread - or, if we're honest, this entire website given most of our members unwavering opinions - is not a suitable place to discuss economic systems in general, I thought I might just want to instead share something more directly relevant to the poll.

I've grown up in a family that could be, at varying points, described as anywhere from the precariat to the lower class by this polls somewhat arbitrary definitions. This isn't because of some massive system that forcibly repressed my parents or something like that, it was honestly because they were hippies with poor work ethics.

They have college degrees - paid for by their families back in the 70s - but have never used them because they are in fairly useless subjects. Okay, fair enough, that happens now. Dad alternated between consistent unemployment of laying around the house, to self-employment as a mechanic with no timetable or followthrough that left little to no customers. His most successful times were when he had part ownership in a used car dealership, which went under with cash-for-clunkers. He had similar earnings potential as a salesman at other dealerships, but had such a firm attitude of anti-authority that he couldn't stand a boss. Mom meanwhile, was for a while a part-time clerk at liquor stores, but was eventually promoted to our state liquor store system headquarters at a cushy, well-paying office job with good benefits. But she didn't last at that, too concerned she was becoming a "yuppie."

The observation I can make from this is that they both had opportunities to earn more, and make for a more comfortable life for them and their family, but they never lasted due to.... honestly, laziness; as well as principles, perverse or not. Not everyone in poverty is kept down by "the man." In fact, most aren't.

It was just as well to me, I never saw the results of their incomes. Mom spent her money on wine and shoes and designer clothes. Dad spent his excess income on a mistress, weed, and half-assed midlife crisis cars. I was still in the same tiny bedroom with no closet in a house that was 100 degrees in summer with A/C and 50 degrees in winter with only a wood stove heat; still doing my laundry at a coin laundromat instead of having a washer and dryer; still wearing clothes from the Salvation army; still getting luxuries like video games through my own scrounged money or members of extended family. Just because people make more money doesn't mean they know how to spend it wisely.

I don't know if there's a point here about the nature of classes and economic advancement in our society, but it has taught me in my life to not be - god bless them - like my parents; and embraced hard study in a relatively unpleasant major, got the most stable and high earning job possible. I will pay off my student debts as quickly as possible, maintain a small but well equipped apartment, and keep my 25 year old car until I can buy a newer one outright. So I resent the idea of social redistribution, that I, after my work, will have to give a significant portion of my income which I have a good idea how to safely spend, to the government, which it can absorb 50% of in administration fees, to give the rest to those like my parents who won't know how to spend it. Even if you'll complain about me someday as a capitalist pig for daring to try to reward myself in "luxurious decadence" with something like a used luxury car.

Left leaning college state ey? You sound like a libertarian to me Ya, opportunities are limitless in the 21st century. I don't have much sympathy for the poor unless they're at a medical disadvantage or in some shitty third world country.

If you live in America, have two hands and two feet, and retain your vision and mind don't bitch about your situation imo. Just lift yourself out of it or don't and live with it. Don't expect the tax payer to finance your failure I say.

And then you get crap like this:

Really? No worker works harder, longer or in a more demanded position than any other?

I'm calling BS on that kumbaya.

No one should be working longer or harder than their peers. If the job is more demanding, they should work shorter hours. And everyone should be afforded the same benefits. Every worker is equally valuable.

[Patridam]

Left leaning college state ey? You sound like a libertarian to me

Heh, that ends up because Nationstates "pro-economic freedom" decisions are often one in the same as subsidizing private industry, which is usually ill advised. If not, I'd be Capitalizt.

Ya, opportunities are limitless in the 21st century. I don't have much sympathy for the poor unless they're at a medical disadvantage or in some shitty third world country. If you live in America, have two hands and two feet, and retain your vision and mind don't bitch about your situation imo. Just lift yourself out of it or don't and live with it. Don't expect the tax payer to finance your failure I say.

I can agree in principle that people, even the poorest, ought to have at least survivable conditions via a social safety net; but not so good as to discourage incentive to contribute to the economy. I can also agree that, no matter their background as a child and who their parents are, the young should be able to have the opportunity/means (e.g. education) to be able to lift themselves out of said background with very hard work and dedication. These are both social democratic services that are present in the US as of today, albeit inefficiently. So no, I can't bring myself to feel all that bad for the capable adults who *choose* to be poor.

The problem with even those are however is that they get instituted by government, and the government is usually terrible at its job, not matter what its doing. Ever been on hold with the DMV for 4 hours? I have. And I've also lost an apartment because the USPS lost the down payment envelope - certified, guaranteed mail, mind you, the most expensive stuff - in a 20 mile trip between a distribution center and the local office. Even Comcast or EA, the most miserable and least customer-centric private companies, manage to do better than that.

And then you get crap like this:

No one should be working longer or harder than their peers. If the job is more demanding, they should work shorter hours. And everyone should be afforded the same benefits. Every worker is equally valuable.

[The South Falls]

Since it looks that this thread - or, if we're honest, this entire website given most of our members unwavering opinions - is not a suitable place to discuss economic systems in general, I thought I might just want to instead share something more directly relevant to the poll.

I've grown up in a family that could be, at varying points, described as anywhere from the precariat to the lower class by this polls somewhat arbitrary definitions. This isn't because of some massive system that forcibly repressed my parents or something like that, it was honestly because they were hippies with poor work ethics.

They have college degrees - paid for by their families back in the 70s - but have never used them because they are in fairly useless subjects. Okay, fair enough, that happens now. Dad alternated between consistent unemployment of laying around the house, to self-employment as a mechanic with no timetable or followthrough that left little to no customers. His most successful times were when he had part ownership in a used car dealership, which went under with cash-for-clunkers. He had similar earnings potential as a salesman at other dealerships, but had such a firm attitude of anti-authority that he couldn't stand a boss. Mom meanwhile, was for a while a part-time clerk at liquor stores, but was eventually promoted to our state liquor store system headquarters at a cushy, well-paying office job with good benefits. But she didn't last at that, too concerned she was becoming a "yuppie."

The observation I can make from this is that they both had opportunities to earn more, and make for a more comfortable life for them and their family, but they never lasted due to.... honestly, laziness; as well as principles, perverse or not. Not everyone in poverty is kept down by "the man." In fact, most aren't.

It was just as well to me, I never saw the results of their incomes. Mom spent her money on wine and shoes and designer clothes. Dad spent his excess income on a mistress, weed, and half-assed midlife crisis cars. I was still in the same tiny bedroom with no closet in a house that was 100 degrees in summer with A/C and 50 degrees in winter with only a wood stove heat; still doing my laundry at a coin laundromat instead of having a washer and dryer; still wearing clothes from the Salvation army; still getting luxuries like video games through my own scrounged money or members of extended family. Just because people make more money doesn't mean they know how to spend it wisely.

I don't know if there's a point here about the nature of classes and economic advancement in our society, but it has taught me in my life to not be - god bless them - like my parents; and embraced hard study in a relatively unpleasant major, got the most stable and high earning job possible. I will pay off my student debts as quickly as possible, maintain a small but well equipped apartment, and keep my 25 year old car until I can buy a newer one outright. So I resent the idea of social redistribution, that I, after my work, will have to give a significant portion of my income which I have a good idea how to safely spend, to the government, which it can absorb 50% of in administration fees, to give the rest to those like my parents who won't know how to spend it. Even if you'll complain about me someday as a capitalist pig for daring to try to reward myself in "luxurious decadence" with something like a used luxury car.

Left leaning college state ey? You sound like a libertarian to me Ya, opportunities are limitless in the 21st century. I don't have much sympathy for the poor unless they're at a medical disadvantage or in some shitty third world country.

If you live in America, have two hands and two feet, and retain your vision and mind don't bitch about your situation imo. Just lift yourself out of it or don't and live with it. Don't expect the tax payer to finance your failure I say.

Have you tried this? Or are you sitting on your computer, looking down upon people who've actually tried their entire lives, but have not found advancement? Those who found college too expensive, and cannot go again? Stuck in a minimum-wage job for the rest of their time because they didn't have enough money to start? You are so condescending, it hurts.

[Patridam]

Have you tried this? Or are you sitting on your computer, looking down upon people who've actually tried their entire lives, but have not found advancement? Those who found college too expensive, and cannot go again? Stuck in a minimum-wage job for the rest of their time because they didn't have enough money to start? You are so condescending, it hurts.

I can't speak for Francoli, but it seems to have worked for me /end anecdote.

Otherwise, the points you're making don't match data. Only 2.6% of full time workers are in poverty, and only 1% of workers over 25 make minimum wage. For people whose family income falls below the relatively generous minimum threshold, the FAFSA and state grants & loans easily cover college expenses at a public college. With a Resident assistant job or other campus job like being a TA to cover food & board on campus, they'll even cover a private college, with less than $20k or $30k in loans by the end. Provided you don't study a totally useless major with no earning potential, that's easy enough to pay off in a few years let alone over the 10 years the government recommends. That's how I did it.

I imagine you're so snarky and bitter to him because you dropped out of college through academic failure and are envious of those who did not.

[The South Falls]

Have you tried this? Or are you sitting on your computer, looking down upon people who've actually tried their entire lives, but have not found advancement? Those who found college too expensive, and cannot go again? Stuck in a minimum-wage job for the rest of their time because they didn't have enough money to start? You are so condescending, it hurts.

I can't speak for Francoli, but it seems to have worked for me /end anecdote.

Otherwise, the points you're making don't match data. Only 2.6% of full time workers are in poverty, and only 1% of workers over 25 make minimum wage. For people whose family income falls below the relatively generous minimum threshold, the FAFSA and state grants & loans easily cover college expenses at a public college. With a Resident assistant job or other campus job like being a TA to cover food & board on campus, they'll even cover a private college, with less than $20k or $30k in loans by the end. Provided you don't study a totally useless major with no earning potential, that's easy enough to pay off in a few years let alone over the 10 years the government recommends. That's how I did it.

I imagine you're so snarky and bitter to him because you dropped out of college through academic failure and are envious of those who did not.

I still have yet to go to college, so no. I just thought what he was saying sounded somewhat "ivory-tower" ish.

[Torrocca]

Have you tried this? Or are you sitting on your computer, looking down upon people who've actually tried their entire lives, but have not found advancement? Those who found college too expensive, and cannot go again? Stuck in a minimum-wage job for the rest of their time because they didn't have enough money to start? You are so condescending, it hurts.

I can't speak for Francoli, but it seems to have worked for me /end anecdote.

Otherwise, the points you're making don't match data. Only 2.6% of full time workers are in poverty, and only 1% of workers over 25 make minimum wage. For people whose family income falls below the relatively generous minimum threshold, the FAFSA and state grants & loans easily cover college expenses at a public college. With a Resident assistant job or other campus job like being a TA to cover food & board on campus, they'll even cover a private college, with less than $20k or $30k in loans by the end. Provided you don't study a totally useless major with no earning potential, that's easy enough to pay off in a few years let alone over the 10 years the government recommends. That's how I did it.

I imagine you're so snarky and bitter to him because you dropped out of college through academic failure and are envious of those who did not.

And ~50% of people make less than $15/hr, so the minimum wage argument is pointless when people are arguing that the new minimum should be $15/hr, which would tremendously benefit around half the working population.

[Telconi]

I can't speak for Francoli, but it seems to have worked for me /end anecdote.

Otherwise, the points you're making don't match data. Only 2.6% of full time workers are in poverty, and only 1% of workers over 25 make minimum wage. For people whose family income falls below the relatively generous minimum threshold, the FAFSA and state grants & loans easily cover college expenses at a public college. With a Resident assistant job or other campus job like being a TA to cover food & board on campus, they'll even cover a private college, with less than $20k or $30k in loans by the end. Provided you don't study a totally useless major with no earning potential, that's easy enough to pay off in a few years let alone over the 10 years the government recommends. That's how I did it.

I imagine you're so snarky and bitter to him because you dropped out of college through academic failure and are envious of those who did not.

And ~50% of people make less than $15/hr, so the minimum wage argument is pointless when people are arguing that the new minimum should be $15/hr, which would tremendously benefit around half the working population.

And tremendously harm the other half.

[Torrocca]

And ~50% of people make less than $15/hr, so the minimum wage argument is pointless when people are arguing that the new minimum should be $15/hr, which would tremendously benefit around half the working population.

And tremendously harm the other half.

If we purely tax the 1%, it wouldn't possibly harm the other half.

[Telconi]

And tremendously harm the other half.

If we purely tax the 1%, it wouldn't possibly harm the other half.

This isn't even a relevant argument, it's like you're pulling Bernie Sanders quotes out of a bag at random ...

[Torrocca]

If we purely tax the 1%, it wouldn't possibly harm the other half.

This isn't even a relevant argument, it's like you're pulling Bernie Sanders quotes out of a bag at random ...

Nah, we're gonna take the Huey Long route and destroy the rich through taxation.

But the corporations need a huge amount of taxin' too for it to work.