Seattle Police Exodus?

[Canadensia]

In regards to the latter, not yet.

As for the former, yes, I'm aware. But the reports still indicate that morale has gone down, and if Chicago is any indication of what happens when police are ostracized for doing their job that means high-risk neighbourhoods will be avoided entirely during patrols, thus increasing crime rates.

And neither article gives hard evidence of morale being down.

I'm inclined to believe the head of the police union knows what they're talking about when they say that morale has gone down.

There is no evidence of neighborhoods being ignored. The police don't get to pick and choose what neighborhoods they serve.

In Seattle? No, not at present.

In Chicago? Yes, they most certainly have. Much of the city has been utterly abandoned by the Chicago police, to the point where they only go in to problem neighbourhoods when they're specifically instructed or otherwise legally obligated to do so. It's gotten so bad to the point where the University of Chicago has hired on its own private police force just to ensure its campus/general area gets policed properly.

Why? You might ask.

Well the answer is very simple. The Chicago police were lambasted by both the general populace and city council for patrolling predominantly black and problem neighbourhoods, so the police got sick and tired of doing a thankless job and decided to stop patrolling these areas entirely. Now crime has skyrocketed, because police very much do get to choose which streets they'll patrol and how often; and if they get shat on by their own city council for going above and beyond the call of duty, then they'll do the bare minimum and allow their local government to reap what they sow.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Source?

Ask a police officer and I know people in Chicago and the claim they don't patrol certain areas is bollocks.

Cops in Chicago sure as shit don't hang around the wild hundreds lol

[San Lumen]

Ask a police officer and I know people in Chicago and the claim they don't patrol certain areas is bollocks.

And by "Chicago" I'm guessing you mean like Winnetka or Kennewick? lol

I don;'t know what your referring too

[San Lumen]

And neither article gives hard evidence of morale being down.

I'm inclined to believe the head of the police union knows what they're talking about when they say that morale has gone down.

There is no evidence of neighborhoods being ignored. The police don't get to pick and choose what neighborhoods they serve.

In Seattle? No, not at present.

In Chicago? Yes, they most certainly have. Much of the city has been utterly abandoned by the Chicago police, to the point where they only go in to problem neighbourhoods when they're specifically instructed or otherwise legally obligated to do so. It's gotten so bad to the point where the University of Chicago has hired on its own private police force just to ensure its campus/general area gets policed properly.

Why? You might ask.

Well the answer is very simple. The Chicago police were lambasted by both the general populace and city council for patrolling predominantly black and problem neighbourhoods, so the police got sick and tired of doing a thankless job and decided to stop patrolling these areas entirely. Now crime has skyrocketed, because police very much do get to choose which streets they'll patrol and how often; and if they get shat on by their own city council for going above and beyond the call of duty, then they'll do the bare minimum and allow their local government to reap what they sow.

Provide a source for your claim

[Senkaku]

And by "Chicago" I'm guessing you mean like Winnetka or Kennewick? lol

I don;'t know what your referring too

Winnetka, Glance, Kennewick, etc.- the tony North Shore suburbs

[Canadensia]

Sad to see the cops leaving, there workplace should be improved.

Not surprised, same thing's been happening in Berkeley.

Lack of support from the local town councillors and a vehemently anti-police attitude amongst the general populace makes it very difficult to do one's job in these cities, let alone be happy in one's chosen occupation.

You reap what you sow, and Seattle's utter contempt for its police force is going to result in substantially less well-patrolled streets and an increase in crime. It's one thing to hold your officers of the law accountable, but it's quite another to consistently treat them with utter contempt.

It's like you didn't read the article or look at the data or do anything besides glance at the clickbait-y thread title and headline. SPD is not in some dire straits, nor are the city's crime rates, Seattle doesn't hate and hold "utter contempt" for its police- but feel free to continue to ignore facts on the ground! I know they're sometimes inconvenient to one's narratives, and they're awfully hard to read up on and familiarize yourself with too.

Literally just five posts above yours:

Yet the number of officers hired outpaces those leaving nor has the crime rate risen.

In regards to the latter, not yet.

As for the former, yes, I'm aware. But the reports still indicate that morale has gone down[...], and if Chicago is any indication of what happens when police are ostracized for doing their job that means high-risk neighbourhoods will be avoided entirely during patrols, thus increasing crime rates.

My post is in regards to what is gradually occurring in Seattle, and similar situations that have occurred elsewhere.

Although I'm glad to see you've chosen to ignore that and jump right in with speculation.

[San Lumen]

I don;'t know what your referring too

Winnetka, Glance, Kennewick, etc.- the tony North Shore suburbs

I know nothing about those areas. Do they not have a good police force?

[Canadensia]

I'm inclined to believe the head of the police union knows what they're talking about when they say that morale has gone down.



In Seattle? No, not at present.

In Chicago? Yes, they most certainly have. Much of the city has been utterly abandoned by the Chicago police, to the point where they only go in to problem neighbourhoods when they're specifically instructed or otherwise legally obligated to do so. It's gotten so bad to the point where the University of Chicago has hired on its own private police force just to ensure its campus/general area gets policed properly.

Why? You might ask.

Well the answer is very simple. The Chicago police were lambasted by both the general populace and city council for patrolling predominantly black and problem neighbourhoods, so the police got sick and tired of doing a thankless job and decided to stop patrolling these areas entirely. Now crime has skyrocketed, because police very much do get to choose which streets they'll patrol and how often; and if they get shat on by their own city council for going above and beyond the call of duty, then they'll do the bare minimum and allow their local government to reap what they sow.

Provide a source for your claim

For which claims?

For starters, for murder rates/policing problems:
http://hipporeads.com/chicago-police-arent-solving-enough-murders/

"The city experienced more than 3,000 shootings — an almost 50 percent increase over last year — and 500 homicides since the beginning of 2016. August was the deadliest month for gun violence in more than two decades. At the current pace, Chicago is projected to top 700 murders by the end of the year. That would be an increase of 46 percent over the 478 homicides the Federal Bureau of Investigation reported for 2015, according to a review of federal crime data released on Monday."

Police district/crime comparison data is available in image format in the article. Unfortunately their pixel size is too wide for this forum, so I'm just leaving the link with the aforementioned quote for context.

Also, to put it more succinctly:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Chicago#Policing

2016's surge in murders and shootings, coupled with a decline in gun seizures, led former Police Superintendent John Escalante to express concerns in March 2016 that officers might be hesitant to engage in proactive policing due to fear of retribution. Officers anonymously reported to the Chicago Sun-Times that they have been afraid to make investigatory stops because the Justice Department and American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois have been scrutinizing police practices. Data of the supposed pullback was reflected with an 80 percent decrease in the number of street stops that officers made since the beginning of 2016. Dean Angelo has claimed that part of the problem is politicians and groups like the ACLU who don't know much about policing, and yet are "dictating what police officers do"

[San Lumen]

Provide a source for your claim

For which claims?

For starters, for murder rates/policing problems:
http://hipporeads.com/chicago-police-arent-solving-enough-murders/

"The city experienced more than 3,000 shootings — an almost 50 percent increase over last year — and 500 homicides since the beginning of 2016. August was the deadliest month for gun violence in more than two decades. At the current pace, Chicago is projected to top 700 murders by the end of the year. That would be an increase of 46 percent over the 478 homicides the Federal Bureau of Investigation reported for 2015, according to a review of federal crime data released on Monday."

Police district/crime comparison data is available in image format in the article. Unfortunately their pixel size is too wide for this forum, so I'm just leaving the link with the aforementioned quote for context.

Also, to put it more succinctly:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Chicago#Policing

2016's surge in murders and shootings, coupled with a decline in gun seizures, led former Police Superintendent John Escalante to express concerns in March 2016 that officers might be hesitant to engage in proactive policing due to fear of retribution. Officers anonymously reported to the Chicago Sun-Times that they have been afraid to make investigatory stops because the Justice Department and American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois have been scrutinizing police practices. Data of the supposed pullback was reflected with an 80 percent decrease in the number of street stops that officers made since the beginning of 2016. Dean Angelo has claimed that part of the problem is politicians and groups like the ACLU who don't know much about policing, and yet are "dictating what police officers do"

But that does not say they have stopped patrolling and doing their jobs in certain areas. I do admit the ACLU is a bit aggressive sometimes and makes issues out of nonsense, rushes to judgment or a lack of understanding of procedure. That does not means officers shouldn't do the job your tax money is paying for.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

If a department doesn't treat the responsibility it is given with respect, can it expect respect itself? Sawant is correct on police issues, in my opinion.

Jesus Christ. 99% of the population falls between Sawant and the police guild. The police are not all a bunch of evil psychopaths out for colored proletarian blood, nor are they all paragons of selfless virtue who are innocent of all wrongdoing and should never be begrudged any praise.

Serious reform of the police, not just in Seattle, is needed to prevent overreaching.

[Oil exporting People]

While I understand the value of strategic retreating, it still rubs me wrong. Given the relative strength of the Police services vis-a-vis their main opponents, the proper response would be to depose of the City Council and then suppress the insurgent bands of the city. A new city Government under the supervision of the city police would then be enacted.

[San Lumen]

While I understand the value of strategic retreating, it still rubs me wrong. Given the relative strength of the Police services vis-a-vis their main opponents, the proper response would be to depose of the City Council and then suppress the insurgent bands of the city. A new city Government under the supervision of the city would then be enacted.

what are you talking about? Are you suggesting the SPD or CPD launch a coup against the elected government chosen in a free and fair election?

[Canadensia]

For which claims?

For starters, for murder rates/policing problems:
http://hipporeads.com/chicago-police-arent-solving-enough-murders/

"The city experienced more than 3,000 shootings — an almost 50 percent increase over last year — and 500 homicides since the beginning of 2016. August was the deadliest month for gun violence in more than two decades. At the current pace, Chicago is projected to top 700 murders by the end of the year. That would be an increase of 46 percent over the 478 homicides the Federal Bureau of Investigation reported for 2015, according to a review of federal crime data released on Monday."

Police district/crime comparison data is available in image format in the article. Unfortunately their pixel size is too wide for this forum, so I'm just leaving the link with the aforementioned quote for context.

Also, to put it more succinctly:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Chicago#Policing

2016's surge in murders and shootings, coupled with a decline in gun seizures, led former Police Superintendent John Escalante to express concerns in March 2016 that officers might be hesitant to engage in proactive policing due to fear of retribution. Officers anonymously reported to the Chicago Sun-Times that they have been afraid to make investigatory stops because the Justice Department and American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois have been scrutinizing police practices. Data of the supposed pullback was reflected with an 80 percent decrease in the number of street stops that officers made since the beginning of 2016. Dean Angelo has claimed that part of the problem is politicians and groups like the ACLU who don't know much about policing, and yet are "dictating what police officers do"

But that does not say they have stopped patrolling and doing their jobs in certain areas. I do admit the ACLU is a bit aggressive sometimes and makes issues out of nonsense, rushes to judgment or a lack of understanding of procedure. That does not means officers shouldn't do the job your tax money is paying for.

For the record, "proactive policing" and "investigatory stops" are synonymous with lack of patrolling. And the sourced article offers a map indicating which districts (notably one lacking regular patrol) are suffering from a skyrocketing crime rate.

I agree that police officers should do their job, but that's not the point. The point is that they're actively being crucified for doing their job, hence why they're avoiding problem areas and doing the bare minimum.

[Oil exporting People]

While I understand the value of strategic retreating, it still rubs me wrong. Given the relative strength of the Police services vis-a-vis their main opponents, the proper response would be to depose of the City Council and then suppress the insurgent bands of the city. A new city Government under the supervision of the city would then be enacted.

what are you talking about? Are you suggesting the SPD or CPD launch a coup against the elected government chosen in a free and fair election?

Yes.

[Evil Lord Bane]

Not to get too far off topic.

1. Police need to be taught that just because they have a badge, does not mean they have more rights than those who don't.

2. If any police think it's their job to remain safe while others are in danger, they need to be remined that it is a part of their job to put themselves in danger while protecting the public. If they can't understand that basic concept, they need to be removed from their job.

Not to long ago, I was stalked by a small town cop who had nothing better to do on a late Sunday night, while there was no traffic on the road we where on. I happened to be traveling with 2 black men in my car, one of which was a long time friend of mine, the other was his roommate. I pulled into a convince store and he pulled into a parking lot next to the one I was in. He must had though the world was coming to an end in his narrow, bigoted mind that a white man was traveling with 2 black men in the same car. At any rate, when we pulled out of the lot, I was immediately pulled over for not signaling a turn (on a street with no traffic). Fair enough, but he did ask the 2 passengers who where with me for ID. I told them he was violating their sixth amendment rights, and asked the cop if he'd do the same if they where white. He then asked me if I had been drinking, and I told him I don't drink. My passengers complied and gave ID, and the cop asked if he could search the car. I told him if he could come up with a good reason to, I'd let him. He decided to search the back seat anyway, which is illegal. He kept asking me questions about how I knew the two people with me. I told him, the person up front with me was a long time friend, the person in the back was his roommate. He kept asking me the same question, over and over again, and I kept giving him the same answer. The my friend sitting up front told him about how we met, and how we became friends. Finally, after handing back all of our paperwork, he let me off with a warning, and left. That was ashame, because if he had written me a ticket, I could have told the judge about how he searched the car without probable cause, and asked my passengers for ID, also without probable cause, and got a nice law suit out of it. This officer could have cost his town to loose money for the shear lack of his understanding of the law and people's rights. The police need better education in order to prevent what this officer did to me, and my passengers, and the law suit that could have resulted from his actions.

[San Lumen]

But that does not say they have stopped patrolling and doing their jobs in certain areas. I do admit the ACLU is a bit aggressive sometimes and makes issues out of nonsense, rushes to judgment or a lack of understanding of procedure. That does not means officers shouldn't do the job your tax money is paying for.

For the record, "proactive policing" and "investigatory stops" are synonymous with lack of patrolling. And the sourced article offers a map indicating which districts (notably one lacking regular patrol) are suffering from a skyrocketing crime rate.

I agree that police officers should do their job, but that's not the point. The point is that they're actively being crucified for doing their job, hence why they're avoiding problem areas and doing the bare minimum.

Well they should not be. But perhaps part of the problem lies with them not having a rapport with the community. If you want respect you have to give it in return.

[San Lumen]

what are you talking about? Are you suggesting the SPD or CPD launch a coup against the elected government chosen in a free and fair election?

Yes.

Are you barking mad? I dont think that would be well received by just about anyone and any and all respect the police had would evaporate in an instant. The leadership of the department would be arrested and face criminal charges likely including sedition and conspiracy.

[Senkaku]

the proper response would be to depose of the City Council and then suppress the insurgent bands of the city. A new city Government under the supervision of the city would then be enacted.

And this is why we have the Feds, ladies and gentlemen! Jesus Christ

[Canadensia]

For the record, "proactive policing" and "investigatory stops" are synonymous with lack of patrolling. And the sourced article offers a map indicating which districts (notably one lacking regular patrol) are suffering from a skyrocketing crime rate.

I agree that police officers should do their job, but that's not the point. The point is that they're actively being crucified for doing their job, hence why they're avoiding problem areas and doing the bare minimum.

Well they should not be. But perhaps part of the problem lies with them not having a rapport with the community. If you want respect you have to give it in return.

I can agree with that, but respect is a two-way street.

And in this regard it isn't just the Chicago police that have been thoroughly lacking.

[San Lumen]

Well they should not be. But perhaps part of the problem lies with them not having a rapport with the community. If you want respect you have to give it in return.

I can agree with that, but respect is a two-way street.

And in this regard it isn't just the Chicago police that have been thoroughly lacking.

I dont disagree that respect is a two way street. It must be mutual

[Washington Resistance Army]

Yes.

Are you barking mad? I dont think that would be well received by just about anyone and any and all respect the police had would evaporate in an instant. The leadership would face criminal charges.

That's why you deploy helicopter squads and send anyone who complains to labor camps, duh.

[The South Falls]

While I understand the value of strategic retreating, it still rubs me wrong. Given the relative strength of the Police services vis-a-vis their main opponents, the proper response would be to depose of the City Council and then suppress the insurgent bands of the city. A new city Government under the supervision of the city would then be enacted.

Yea, we can't just coup to do what we want. This ain't Burundi.

[Senkaku]

Are you barking mad? I dont think that would be well received by just about anyone and any and all respect the police had would evaporate in an instant. The leadership would face criminal charges.

That's why you deploy helicopter squads and send anyone who complains to labor camps, duh.

hi yes this is a discussion thread not RWDT, please keep the memes in the appropriate location

[Devonia]

If the police did leave, which the statistics show is an incorrect statement, or at least not as severe as it has been made out to be, that's why there's private police forces/ security companies. In some cases, people's money would be better spent there than taxes and public officers. I support the police to the fullest extent, but I defiantly believe the private sector can do a better job at security and law enforcement. Let me be clear though: while i support private police, I DO NOT endorse I privatized justice system and/or private prison facilities. This would inevitably lead to an unjust system balanced against the people.

[Washington Resistance Army]

That's why you deploy helicopter squads and send anyone who complains to labor camps, duh.

hi yes this is a discussion thread not RWDT, please keep the memes in the appropriate location

>implying it's a meme
>implying San Lumen threads are discussion threads

C'mon now