Banning Nazis from discourse

[The Anime Army]

I support it.

[Kernen]

Good intentions, bad idea.

Make nazi garbage ideas unable to debate, it will just make nazi garbage ideas pile up in the underground and eventually burst violently.

Let the nazi garbage ideas come to the debate, where they can be dismantled and thrown away properly into the trash.

Be polite, be nice, be kind, but properly dismantle nazi garbage ideas in a debate.

This. Debate is NOT about convincing the other side to agree with you. That's never gonna happen. Debate is about convincing bystanders. The best way to deny Nazi recruiting, or any other undesirable political ideology, like Democratic Socialism, is by showing onlookers that the arguments for that ideology make no sense.

Adherent wont stop waving the flag, but the person on the fence will probably rethink her interest after seeing it challenged and thoroughly dismantled.

[Sick Jumps]

Antisemitism is not confined to just Europe and it has been around for forever. It predates Nazism by thousands of years. I theorize that there must be a reason for why regardless of where Jews have lived in the world, that non-Jews have tended to hate them. I'm not familiar with why antisemitism exists, but I presume that there is or are valid reasons.

Roma for example, are one major group of people who many claim are objectively bad. I know why more or less, it is because they're nomads who don't respect private property rights generally speaking. Too many Roma set up illegal camps, squat on land that isn't theirs and cause pollution of said land by illegally dumping trash and etc. Amongst all the other crimes they tend to commit such as pickpocketing and being a general nuisance to any surrounding community.

I have no first hand experience with this, but I knew this Hungarian from Budapest many years ago, and he's absolutely convinced that Roma are objectively bad to have as neighbors or to be in their presence. He's warned me against them on many occasions when it came up.

I know in the case of antisemitism in Europe, much of it can be traced to the role of Jews as moneylenders, and the Christian view that the Jews killed Jesus (deicide).

Jews were forbidden from owning land and engaging in many trades by the church. Additionally, Christians were forbidden from engaging in usury. This tended to direct Jews into the moneylending profession (along with a few others like medicine), which led to many of the negative stereotypes people associate with Jews.

The fact that they're a small, different minority also made them a convenient scapegoat.

I am not as knowledable about the history of antisemitism in the Islamic world. Perhaps one of our local Muslims can chip in on that.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Antisemitism is not confined to just Europe and it has been around for forever. It predates Nazism by thousands of years. I theorize that there must be a reason for why regardless of where Jews have lived in the world, that non-Jews have tended to hate them. I'm not familiar with why antisemitism exists, but I presume that there is or are valid reasons.

Roma for example, are one major group of people who many claim are objectively bad. I know why more or less, it is because they're nomads who don't respect private property rights generally speaking. Too many Roma set up illegal camps, squat on land that isn't theirs and cause pollution of said land by illegally dumping trash and etc. Amongst all the other crimes they tend to commit such as pickpocketing and being a general nuisance to any surrounding community.

I have no first hand experience with this, but I knew this Hungarian from Budapest many years ago, and he's absolutely convinced that Roma are objectively bad to have as neighbors or to be in their presence. He's warned me against them on many occasions when it came up.

I know in the case of antisemitism in Europe, much of it can be traced to the role of Jews as moneylenders, and the Christian view that the Jews killed Jesus (deicide).

Jews were forbidden from owning land and engaging in many trades by the church. Additionally, Christians were forbidden from engaging in usury. This tended to direct Jews into that profession (along with a few others like medicine), which led to many of the negative stereotypes people associate with Jews.

The fact that they're a small, different minority also made them a convenient scapegoat.

I am not as knowledable about the history of antisemitism in the Islamic world. Perhaps one of our local Muslims can chip in on that.

Hi, local Muslim here.

Judeophobia depends on which Islamic nation you're talking about. In some places like Al-Andalus, Jews had a good life. But in places like Yemen, they were ethnically cleansed. So it depends on the place and who's in power.

[Sick Jumps]

I know in the case of antisemitism in Europe, much of it can be traced to the role of Jews as moneylenders, and the Christian view that the Jews killed Jesus (deicide).

Jews were forbidden from owning land and engaging in many trades by the church. Additionally, Christians were forbidden from engaging in usury. This tended to direct Jews into that profession (along with a few others like medicine), which led to many of the negative stereotypes people associate with Jews.

The fact that they're a small, different minority also made them a convenient scapegoat.

I am not as knowledable about the history of antisemitism in the Islamic world. Perhaps one of our local Muslims can chip in on that.

Hi, local Muslim here.

Judeophobia depends on which Islamic nation you're talking about. In some places like Al-Andalus, Jews had a good life. But in places like Yemen, they were ethnically cleansed. So it depends on the place and who's in power.

I know in the Ottoman Empire they were generally tolerated, but subjected to certain restrictions (like many of the other religious minorities). They weren't restricted to certain trades like they were in the Christian world.

There was some pre-Palestine/Israel conflict antisemitism in the 19th century. I don't know the specifics about that, though.

Like you said, it depends on the period and region. So it's a complex topic.

[San Lumen]

So recently I saw a discussion online about banning any person who shows Nazi support from the place of said discussion, and I whole wholeheartedly agreed with that position. I thought this was a common view not enough to generate such an issue. However people were bringing up points about how having rational discourse was the only way to resolve tension and possibly change their minds. Which does not make much sense because by choosing such stances as the Nazis they have already conditioned themselves or become biased against any arguments that can be bought before them.

Another point was that if Nazis are banned then so should Communists and any other group of people that has supported or engaged in violence against another in the past. This argument to me was whataboutism, Nazis have a singularly destructive agenda that they should be given no concessions on any ground. Unlike the other groups, we can easily point out the failures and the history of this group to recent memory.

What is your view on banning Nazis on any platform?

No they should not be banned. Freedom of speech means allowing all speech not just speech you agree with.

[Arlenton]

Nah. Commies are a bigger threat. Ban them.

[San Lumen]

Nah. Commies are a bigger threat. Ban them.

How about no

[Khataiy]

My opinion is that when you have nine Nazis sitting at a table and you sit with them, you have ten Nazis. Nazis should be cast out of public discourse wherever possible by a free society. I only draw the line at legal bans.

That stance is within itself an oxymoronic interpretation of Democracy and is against its very fundamentals.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Nah. Commies are a bigger threat. Ban them.

How about no

How about yes?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Commies are a bigger threat.

No they aren't. We're way past the 1950s.

[Khataiy]

Commies are a bigger threat.

No they aren't. We're way past the 1950s.

Communism still is a very real threat albeit not as strong as the Cold War it still is a threat a considerably still very real and influential ideology in the modern political arena.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

No they aren't. We're way past the 1950s.

Communism still is a very real threat albeit not as strong as the Cold War it still is a threat a considerably still very real and influential ideology in the modern political arena.

Not in the US it isn't. And I can't think of any other country where it is.

[Khataiy]

Communism still is a very real threat albeit not as strong as the Cold War it still is a threat a considerably still very real and influential ideology in the modern political arena.

Not in the US it isn't. And I can't think of any other country where it is.

Not necessarily countries but underground organizations and so on, but even then North Korea is a prime example though not 'officially Communist' the state's ideology is an offshoot of Communism and they are a serious regional destabilizer and threat.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Commies are a bigger threat.

No they aren't. We're way past the 1950s.

There's way more communists than Nazis.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Not in the US it isn't. And I can't think of any other country where it is.

Not necessarily countries but underground organizations and so on

Like which??? Those groups are tiny and have little to no influence or chance of gaining power.

but even then North Korea is a prime example though not 'officially Communist' the state's ideology is an offshoot of Communism and they are a serious regional destabilizer and threat.

Ok, 1 nation with not much influence besides nuclear weapons. I wouldn't consider them a threat except to Japan and South Korea.

[Khataiy]

Not necessarily countries but underground organizations and so on

Like which??? Those groups are tiny and have little to no influence or chance of gaining power.

but even then North Korea is a prime example though not 'officially Communist' the state's ideology is an offshoot of Communism and they are a serious regional destabilizer and threat.

Ok, 1 nation with not much influence besides nuclear weapons. I wouldn't consider them a threat except to Japan and South Korea.

PKK, Various armed groups in Eastern Ukraine, ANTIFA etc

It's not just North Korea, there's China, Belarus, Cuba and more.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Like which??? Those groups are tiny and have little to no influence or chance of gaining power.

Ok, 1 nation with not much influence besides nuclear weapons. I wouldn't consider them a threat except to Japan and South Korea.

PKK

Ok, I'll give you thst.

Various armed groups in Eastern Ukraine

Like whom?

ANTIFA etc

Not all antifa orgs and people are communists.

there's China, Belarus, Cuba and more.

None of them are communists, and the only 'threat' is China.

[Great Minarchistan]

"Ban people/thing that I dislike" is a galaxy brain concept. Why are these sort of threads popping up so much anyways

[Sick Jumps]

In most Western nations, I'd say the far right poses a greater threat to stability than the far left. They're more numerous and they're also growing rapidly.

[Khataiy]

PKK

Ok, I'll give you thst.

Various armed groups in Eastern Ukraine

Like whom?

ANTIFA etc

Not all antifa orgs and people are communists.

there's China, Belarus, Cuba and more.

None of them are communists, and the only 'threat' is China.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luhansk_P ... s_Republic
This and the Donetsk republic are backed by most Communists and many of their fighters are sympathetic to Communism

As for Belarus it is absolutely Communist not officially but in doctrine and administration is for all practical purposes a Communist nation, their president was a Soviet hardliner. Cuba is also another Communist nation and to deny that isn't is sort of ignorant. They are both major threats Cuba is militarily weak but if it was in a position where it was economically better off they would be the biggest threat in North America especially to countries in the Caribbean and they'd probably help fuel the Narco wars in Mexico and Colombia just like their Leftist ally Venezuela.

[Sick Jumps]

Ok, I'll give you thst.

Like whom?

Not all antifa orgs and people are communists.

None of them are communists, and the only 'threat' is China.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luhansk_P ... s_Republic
This and the Donetsk republic are backed by most Communists and many of their fighters are sympathetic to Communism

As for Belarus it is absolutely Communist not officially but in doctrine and administration is for all practical purposes a Communist nation, their president was a Soviet hardliner. Cuba is also another Communist nation and to deny that isn't is sort of ignorant. They are both major threats Cuba is militarily weak but if it was in a position where it was economically better off they would be the biggest threat in North America especially to countries in the Caribbean and they'd probably help fuel the Narco wars in Mexico and Colombia just like their Leftist ally Venezuela.

Yeah, Belarus and Cuba should really get on top of their game and pass some laws to ban Communism.

[Khataiy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luhansk_P ... s_Republic
This and the Donetsk republic are backed by most Communists and many of their fighters are sympathetic to Communism

As for Belarus it is absolutely Communist not officially but in doctrine and administration is for all practical purposes a Communist nation, their president was a Soviet hardliner. Cuba is also another Communist nation and to deny that isn't is sort of ignorant. They are both major threats Cuba is militarily weak but if it was in a position where it was economically better off they would be the biggest threat in North America especially to countries in the Caribbean and they'd probably help fuel the Narco wars in Mexico and Colombia just like their Leftist ally Venezuela.

Yeah, Belarus and Cuba should really get on top of their game and pass some laws to ban Communism.

That's not what I am saying, I personally don't like Communism, but the fact is the ideology of Communism still is a relevant threat.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Ok, I'll give you thst.

Like whom?

Not all antifa orgs and people are communists.

None of them are communists, and the only 'threat' is China.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luhansk_P ... s_Republic
This and the Donetsk republic are backed by most Communists and many of their fighters are sympathetic to Communism

How much influence do they have?

As for Belarus it is absolutely Communist not officially

Then it isn't communist.

Cuba is also another Communist

No it's not. In fact, there's a constitutional reform under way to make Cuba socialist.

They are both major threats

To who?

Cuba is militarily weak but if it was in a position where it was economically better off they would be the biggest threat in North America especially to countries in the Caribbean and they'd probably help fuel the Narco wars in Mexico and Colombia just like their Leftist ally Venezuela.

Yeah, if. Right now, Cuba is economically and militarily weak, hence, not a threat.

[Khataiy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luhansk_P ... s_Republic
This and the Donetsk republic are backed by most Communists and many of their fighters are sympathetic to Communism

How much influence do they have?

As for Belarus it is absolutely Communist not officially

Then it isn't communist.

Cuba is also another Communist

No it's not. In fact, there's a constitutional reform under way to make Cuba socialist.

They are both major threats

To who?

Cuba is militarily weak but if it was in a position where it was economically better off they would be the biggest threat in North America especially to countries in the Caribbean and they'd probably help fuel the Narco wars in Mexico and Colombia just like their Leftist ally Venezuela.

Yeah, if. Right now, Cuba is economically and militarily weak, hence, not a threat.

Yet again anyone can say anything they want just because they don't claim to be Communist doesn't mean they are not that is a super naive way of thinking. As for Cuba if given the chance to bite they will bite, are familiar with FARC or the Zaptaista Movement in Mexico they fuel drug violence in Latin America to finance their own political agendas which is Communist.