Delaware bans Conversion Therapy

[Grenartia]

More states should do this as conversion therapy has been viewed by the vast majority of psychological and psychiatric organizations as complete bunk since the mid-2000s.

So, hypothetically, if future research made conversion therapy possible, would you still support a ban?

Yes, because its ethically unconscionable to forcibly change someone's identity.

[Risottia]

I will never understand this obsession some conservatives have with trying to torture people into denying a part of their identity.

Nor will I. Its mind boggling that people still believe in nonsense like this that being gay is a choice.

What is even more mind boggling to me is that people still think that homosexuality being a choice or not actually matters. If it's sex between consenting adults, it's nobody else's business, and most certainly not the government's or the law's.

[Terra Novae Libero]

So, hypothetically, if future research made conversion therapy possible, would you still support a ban?

Yes, because its ethically unconscionable to forcibly change someone's identity.

So, presumably, you'd be okay with it if not carried out by force?

[Grenartia]

Yes, because its ethically unconscionable to forcibly change someone's identity.

So, presumably, you'd be okay with it if not carried out by force?

Non-forcibly changing somebody's identity inherently implies they are the one doing the changing, without coercion from outside persons or entities.

[Terra Novae Libero]

So, presumably, you'd be okay with it if not carried out by force?

Non-forcibly changing somebody's identity inherently implies they are the one doing the changing, without coercion from outside persons or entities.

Does giving assistance to someone who's chosen to change their identity mean you're coercing them? Seems unlikely.

And does social pressure count as force? If so, then we can't use social pressure to change, say, political beliefs, since those are often part of a person's identity.

[Page]

Subjecting LGBTQ minors to the psychological and emotional torture (and sometimes physical torture) of conversion therapy is inexcusable and shouldn't be tolerated in any form.

[Auzkhia]

Little Delaware did good, it should be banned nation wide, it's torture and it puts vulnerable youth at risk for suicide, but sadly it won't happen under the current administration considering who's in the office of the Vice President.

[Minoa]

http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/398450-delaware-becomes-15th-state-to-ban-conversion-therapy

LGBT rights might be under threat in some areas but in the State of Delaware LGBT people just got more rights as they are now the 15th state to ban the abhorrent practice of conversion therapy as the Governor has signed into law a bill outlawing the practice in the state. For those who dont know conversion therapy is a debunked pseudoscience that alleges ones sexual orientation can be changed from homosexual to heterosexual.

It is wonderful news to see this gaining traction as there is absolutely zero evidence that it works and may in fact be harmful to a child to teens well being which is who it is often used on. Teens have no ability to consent and therefore their parents may be irreparably harming their children.

Sexual orientation is not a choice and no amount of therapy can change it. This practice should be outlawed everywhere.

Whats your take NSG? Did the state do the right thing and should more follow?

The backlash against LGBT conversion therapy is a rapid development, with many countries including the UK planning to follow suit. I just wish there would be the same momentum to fight climate change and racial hatred, even though the internet has exposed more cases of such injustice than ever before.

[Ifreann]

It's a good start, but why should licensed medical professionals be allowed to practice this quackery on adults?

---

If sexual orientation is such a simple "choice", why does someone who doesn't want to be gay have to go through the whole conversion process anyway?

When it's the children of good, upstanding, strictly socially conservative Christian families, they didn't choose to be gay. No, they were brainwashed by the liberal media. These degenerate Hollywood celebrities are shoving the gay agenda down people's throats and taking away parents' free choice to keep their kids straight.

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

Really good to see Delaware officially ban LGBT conversion therapy. Conversion therapy is completely ineffective and can often lead to depression and loss of all sexual feeling.

[San Lumen]

Little Delaware did good, it should be banned nation wide, it's torture and it puts vulnerable youth at risk for suicide, but sadly it won't happen under the current administration considering who's in the office of the Vice President.

Sadly. I'm fairly certain Pence has been quoted as supporting conversion therapy.

[The Free Joy State]

Bravo, Delaware.

UK, take a look at Delaware and pull your bloody finger out! Condemning this barbaric practise isn't enough.

[USS Monitor]

Yes, because its ethically unconscionable to forcibly change someone's identity.

So, presumably, you'd be okay with it if not carried out by force?

If someone voluntarily goes to conversion therapy -- i.e. as an adult capable of consent, without being coerced -- then yeah, that's fine.

The bans are for minors who aren't in a position to freely make their own decisions without parents forcing them.

[Dawlat-i-Aliya]

The LGBT movement is corrupt to the core, and the ‘conversion therapy’ issue just goes to show. It’s in many ways a non-issue, or a minor one, that the movement has pushed to the fore; that’s not to say that it’s not important, it is, but it’s something that’s been amplified by media over-reporting. Now, we see all these films of how bad it is to use things like aversion therapy to try to un-gay people, but it’s perfectly fine for these same techniques to be applied to children with behavioural problems. The most common treatment for autism is a form of aversion therapy, even religious cults use it. Why is something not okay when gays are the victims? And what’s the point celebrating? After all, most gay people will never seek out ‘conversion therapy’ or be forced into it. It’s so minimal it isn’t worth the over-attention we give it. But many more people can be subjected to the same techniques, but because they’re not pretty white gay men, no one cares. If people seriously opposed the kinds of things done in conversion therapy, they should ban it whenever it’s used not only when it’s applied to LGBT folk.

[The South Falls]

The LGBT movement is corrupt to the core, and the ‘conversion therapy’ issue just goes to show. It’s in many ways a non-issue, or a minor one, that the movement has pushed to the fore; that’s not to say that it’s not important, it is, but it’s something that’s been amplified by media over-reporting. Now, we see all these films of how bad it is to use things like aversion therapy to try to un-gay people, but it’s perfectly fine for these same techniques to be applied to children with behavioural problems. The most common treatment for autism is a form of aversion therapy, even religious cults use it. Why is something not okay when gays are the victims? And what’s the point celebrating? After all, most gay people will never seek out ‘conversion therapy’ or be forced into it. It’s so minimal it isn’t worth the over-attention we give it. But many more people can be subjected to the same techniques, but because they’re not pretty white gay men, no one cares. If people seriously opposed the kinds of things done in conversion therapy, they should ban it whenever it’s used not only when it’s applied to LGBT folk.

Kids weren't tortured to rid them of autism.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

The LGBT movement is corrupt to the core, and the ‘conversion therapy’ issue just goes to show. It’s in many ways a non-issue, or a minor one, that the movement has pushed to the fore; that’s not to say that it’s not important, it is, but it’s something that’s been amplified by media over-reporting. Now, we see all these films of how bad it is to use things like aversion therapy to try to un-gay people, but it’s perfectly fine for these same techniques to be applied to children with behavioural problems. The most common treatment for autism is a form of aversion therapy, even religious cults use it. Why is something not okay when gays are the victims? And what’s the point celebrating? After all, most gay people will never seek out ‘conversion therapy’ or be forced into it. It’s so minimal it isn’t worth the over-attention we give it. But many more people can be subjected to the same techniques, but because they’re not pretty white gay men, no one cares. If people seriously opposed the kinds of things done in conversion therapy, they should ban it whenever it’s used not only when it’s applied to LGBT folk.

Kids are actually forced into it by their parents.

If you don't see the suffering of your fellow humans as an issue worth taking up, the problems lies with you. The difference between using therapy to help someone with a mental disorder and someone with another sexuality should be obvious. One is trying to help someone, the other is trying to force someone into conformity. Hell, using these techniques on people with a mental disorder should be seen as immoral.


As for the piece: it's about bloody time, and it needs to picked up by the federal government real fast. No hope of that, though.

[Petrasylvania]

http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/398450-delaware-becomes-15th-state-to-ban-conversion-therapy

LGBT rights might be under threat in some areas but in the State of Delaware LGBT people just got more rights as they are now the 15th state to ban the abhorrent practice of conversation therapy as the Governor has signed into law a bill outlawing the practice in the state. For those who dont know conversation therapy is a debunked pseudoscience that alleges ones sexual orientation can be changed from homosexual to heterosexual.

It is wonderful news to see this gaining traction as there is absolutely zero evidence that it works and may in fact be harmful to a child to teens well being which is who it is often used on. Teens have no ability to consent and therefore their parents may be irreparably harming their children.

Sexual orientation is not a choice and no amount of therapy can change it. This practice should be outlawed everywhere.

Whats your take NSG? Did the state do the right thing and should more follow?

for fuck's sakes it's "conversion" not "conversation" lmao

I dunno, conversation therapy sounds like something productive.

[Dawlat-i-Aliya]

The LGBT movement is corrupt to the core, and the ‘conversion therapy’ issue just goes to show. It’s in many ways a non-issue, or a minor one, that the movement has pushed to the fore; that’s not to say that it’s not important, it is, but it’s something that’s been amplified by media over-reporting. Now, we see all these films of how bad it is to use things like aversion therapy to try to un-gay people, but it’s perfectly fine for these same techniques to be applied to children with behavioural problems. The most common treatment for autism is a form of aversion therapy, even religious cults use it. Why is something not okay when gays are the victims? And what’s the point celebrating? After all, most gay people will never seek out ‘conversion therapy’ or be forced into it. It’s so minimal it isn’t worth the over-attention we give it. But many more people can be subjected to the same techniques, but because they’re not pretty white gay men, no one cares. If people seriously opposed the kinds of things done in conversion therapy, they should ban it whenever it’s used not only when it’s applied to LGBT folk.

Kids weren't tortured to rid them of autism.

Ever heard of ABA? Historically, electrocution and beating was used as a tool to rid them of aberrant behaviour. Just as in some forms of conversion therapy, aversion techniques were applied by electrocuting or inducing nausea in the victim when he is sexually aroused by male bodies, the same was used to prevent kids from rocking, flapping their hands or engaging in otherwise benign behavior to train the autism out of them. This therapy is still used, and though electrocuting victims isn’t as common anymore the principle of using discipline to train a person to be a certain way and abandon forms of behavior others deem ‘unnatural’ remains a staple of treating kids with mental problems like Autism.

Kids are actually forced into it by their parents.

If you don't see the suffering of your fellow humans as an issue worth taking up, the problems lies with you. The difference between using therapy to help someone with a mental disorder and someone with another sexuality should be obvious. One is trying to help someone, the other is trying to force someone into conformity. Hell, using these techniques on people with a mental disorder should be seen as immoral.

I do see it as an issue, I just don’t see it as a gay only issue. I’ll say it again, why is aversion therapy wrong when gay people are the victims? Why is it okay to do that kind of thing to children with disabilities? You do know that ABA is actually banned in the UK, why? Because it’s cruel, unleashing physical suffering on a child to stop them from doing something as harmless as rocking is as unjustifiable as a unleashing physical suffering on a person for being aroused at images of men. It’s torture either way, and in both cases the aim is to change a person involuntarily because what they happen to do offends moral authorities.

[San Lumen]

The LGBT movement is corrupt to the core, and the ‘conversion therapy’ issue just goes to show. It’s in many ways a non-issue, or a minor one, that the movement has pushed to the fore; that’s not to say that it’s not important, it is, but it’s something that’s been amplified by media over-reporting. Now, we see all these films of how bad it is to use things like aversion therapy to try to un-gay people, but it’s perfectly fine for these same techniques to be applied to children with behavioural problems. The most common treatment for autism is a form of aversion therapy, even religious cults use it. Why is something not okay when gays are the victims? And what’s the point celebrating? After all, most gay people will never seek out ‘conversion therapy’ or be forced into it. It’s so minimal it isn’t worth the over-attention we give it. But many more people can be subjected to the same techniques, but because they’re not pretty white gay men, no one cares. If people seriously opposed the kinds of things done in conversion therapy, they should ban it whenever it’s used not only when it’s applied to LGBT folk.

Im sorry? Children and teens are forced into it. It involves torture and abuse

[Dawlat-i-Aliya]

The LGBT movement is corrupt to the core, and the ‘conversion therapy’ issue just goes to show. It’s in many ways a non-issue, or a minor one, that the movement has pushed to the fore; that’s not to say that it’s not important, it is, but it’s something that’s been amplified by media over-reporting. Now, we see all these films of how bad it is to use things like aversion therapy to try to un-gay people, but it’s perfectly fine for these same techniques to be applied to children with behavioural problems. The most common treatment for autism is a form of aversion therapy, even religious cults use it. Why is something not okay when gays are the victims? And what’s the point celebrating? After all, most gay people will never seek out ‘conversion therapy’ or be forced into it. It’s so minimal it isn’t worth the over-attention we give it. But many more people can be subjected to the same techniques, but because they’re not pretty white gay men, no one cares. If people seriously opposed the kinds of things done in conversion therapy, they should ban it whenever it’s used not only when it’s applied to LGBT folk.

Im sorry? Children and teens are forced into it. It involves torture and abuse

My point is not that people are not forced into it, but that only a minority of the gay population will be forced into it. To isolate ‘conversion therapy’ from other dubious therapeautic techniques and portray it as a only gay issue, does little to help the wider group of people who are forcibly subjected to those ‘therapies’. Worse, in Delaware at least, it gives the impression that the problem is somehow solved and does not warrant any further public attention. These kinds of involuntary therapies are harmful to everyone who are forced into them, and not all of those people are gay.

[San Lumen]

Im sorry? Children and teens are forced into it. It involves torture and abuse

My point is not that people are not forced into it, but that only a minority of the gay population will be forced into it. To isolate ‘conversion therapy’ from other dubious therapeautic techniques and portray it as a only gay issue, does little to help the wider group of people who are forcibly subjected to those ‘therapies’. Worse, in Delaware at least, it gives the impression that the problem is somehow solved and does not warrant any further public attention. These kinds of involuntary therapies are harmful to everyone who are forced into them, and not all of those people are gay.

And those that are are usually children and teens who cannot give consent and studies have shown those subjected to it suffer lasting physical and emotional harm

[Dawlat-i-Aliya]

My point is not that people are not forced into it, but that only a minority of the gay population will be forced into it. To isolate ‘conversion therapy’ from other dubious therapeautic techniques and portray it as a only gay issue, does little to help the wider group of people who are forcibly subjected to those ‘therapies’. Worse, in Delaware at least, it gives the impression that the problem is somehow solved and does not warrant any further public attention. These kinds of involuntary therapies are harmful to everyone who are forced into them, and not all of those people are gay.

And those that are are usually children and teens who cannot give consent and studies have shown those subjected to it suffer lasting physical and emotional harm

Exactly, which is why it should be restricted by the law. But taking issue with the instances when it’s forced on gay teens while ignoring the fact that it’s also forced on other children, teenagers and adults is simply unfair. It highlights the suffering of some while ignoring the suffering of others who experience the same thing. Which is why this doesn’t matter, because banning ‘homosexual conversion therapy’ does not help the dozens of other people subjected to the same therapy for different but equally unjust reasons.

[Prydania]

I’ll say it again, why is aversion therapy wrong when gay people are the victims?

Who said it was only wrong when LGBT people are the victims? I’m all for LGBT rights and want to
see this stuff banned regardless. It’s barbaric, regardless of who’s being targeted.

What I find immensely amusing, however, is that you seem incapable of saying “this is a barbaric practice and I’m happy it’s been outlawed in some small way.”
You seem incapable of going “good for the LGBT teens and children who won’t be subjected to this cruel practice in Delaware.”

It’s obvious you believe both of those statements. Your posts admit this sort of “therapy” is wrong, and so it stands to reason you believe it ought to be illegal to use it on LGBT children.

And yet, as I said on the previous page of this thread, you’re one of the ones unwilling (or perhaps incapable) of “agreeing with the libs.” It’s forcing you to be angry and combative, calling LGBT people “corrupt to the core” and constructing strawmen to tear down.
All because saying “I’m happy LGBT youth don’t need to go through this in Delaware” is beyond you.

[Chan Island]

Good.

[Dawlat-i-Aliya]

I’ll say it again, why is aversion therapy wrong when gay people are the victims?

Who said it was only wrong when LGBT people are the victims? I’m all for LGBT rights and want to
see this stuff banned regardless. It’s barbaric, regardless of who’s being targeted.

What I find immensely amusing, however, is that you seem incapable of saying “this is a barbaric practice and I’m happy it’s been outlawed in some small way.”
You seem incapable of going “good for the LGBT teens and children who won’t be subjected to this cruel practice in Delaware.”

It’s obvious you believe both of those statements. Your posts admit this sort of “therapy” is wrong, and so it stands to reason you believe it ought to be illegal to use it on LGBT children.

And yet, as I said on the previous page of this thread, you’re one of the ones unwillingness (or perhaps inability) to “agree with the libs” is forcing you to be angry and combative, calling LGBT people “corrupt to the core” and constructing strawmen to tear down.
All because saying “I’m happy LGBT youth don’t need to go through this in Delaware” is beyond you.

I’ll admit my stance is unnecessarily combative, and while it is good that LGBT folk won’t have to deal with it it does not help the dozens of other people who will. My concern is that this will give the impression that harmful behavior changing aversion therapies are simply not an issue, that they’ve been dealt with and aren’t a public concern anymore. And I can’t bring myself to feel happy for Delaware LGBT youth who aren’t going through this when I see other people condemned to suffer a similar fate, and the fact that the media and mainstream LGBT groups ignore their plight, as if conversion therapy were just a gay issue, feels like a kick in the face. I stand by my statement that the LGBT movement is corrupt, mainstream gay activist groups often behave in extremely dubious ways and are just as sectarian and extreme as the religious fanatics they insist on battling, though that’s a topic for another conversation.