Delaware bans Conversion Therapy

[Kramanica]

I don't give a shit about "the libs". Christ, you people are so bloody self-obsessed you think everything's about you.

And we'll beleive you. Totally.

I literally don't care if you people do or don't lmao that's kind of the point.

[Kramanica]

I don't give a shit about "the libs". Christ, you people are so bloody self-obsessed you think everything's about you.

Ah yes, when I look through your posting history, I think, "now there's a guy who doesn't give a shit about politics"

Anyways, instead of dodging left and right, I suggest you go read up, and then come back to snark once you're informed enough to do it competently

I literally didn't say I don't care about politics.

Christ, are you even actually trying?

[The South Falls]

And we'll beleive you. Totally.

I literally don't care if you people do or don't lmao that's kind of the point.

Eh, it's NSG anyway. I barely know you, so who cares?

[Clintonburge]

This is just pandering for votes because LGBT conversion therapy receives so much disproportionate media attention. Anybody remember the '80s, when "cult deprogramming" of people from minority religious groups was all the rage? Nobody cared then.

Involuntary psychological reconditioning of any sort needs to be banned, not just conversion therapy. That includes Hare Krishnas and others who are involuntarily set up for conversion-therapy style reconditioning programs for their religious beliefs.

If Delaware was really interested in combating the specific injustice overall rather than just one incarnation of it, that's what it should've done.

This is just virtue-signalling of the highest order. It's completely meaningless.

Couldn't agree more. It's pandering for votes and media coverage, not out of genuine concern for the practices of involuntary reconditioning.

Hawaii also banned gay conversion therapy earlier this year, and there are like barely any republicans in its government (zero Republican state senators), but I guess that was just for political gain too, right?

[Kramanica]

I literally don't care if you people do or don't lmao that's kind of the point.

Eh, it's NSG anyway. I barely know you, so who cares?

There you go.

[San Marlindo]

Also, I'd like to point out that even when done on adults, they're not giving truly informed consent, because they're being falsely advertised to.

Doesn't matter. False advertising does not negate consent, even ill-informed consent. You better be damn sure what you're signing up for when you put your signature on that dotted line, but that's your responsibility to be informed and not just go off some flashy advertisement. Any military recruiter will tell you this.

[San Marlindo]

This is just pandering for votes because LGBT conversion therapy receives so much disproportionate media attention. Anybody remember the '80s, when "cult deprogramming" of people from minority religious groups was all the rage? Nobody cared then.

Involuntary psychological reconditioning of any sort needs to be banned, not just conversion therapy. That includes Hare Krishnas and others who are involuntarily set up for conversion-therapy style reconditioning programs for their religious beliefs.

If Delaware was really interested in combating the specific injustice overall rather than just one incarnation of it, that's what it should've done.



Couldn't agree more. It's pandering for votes and media coverage, not out of genuine concern for the practices of involuntary reconditioning.

Hawaii also banned gay conversion therapy earlier this year, and there are like barely any republicans in its government (zero Republican state senators), but I guess that was just for political gain too, right?

Yes.

Why are they banning only gay conversion therapy, and not all conversion therapy?

Clearly it's because LGBT stuff makes the news and is considered important to their voters. Delaware and Hawaii state governments don't really care about how unjust involuntary reconditioning programs are.

[Grenartia]

Involuntary psychological reconditioning of any sort

Does that include drug rehab?

[Kannap]

Good news

[Grenartia]

Also, I'd like to point out that even when done on adults, they're not giving truly informed consent, because they're being falsely advertised to.

You can't really ban adults from being too stupid not to fall for things, or, to be fair, for being too confused and conflicted about their identities to go in a different direction, and I don't think you should, frankly- if someone's deep religious convictions or what have you spur them to do this kind of thing to themselves once they're of age, I'll feel sad for them, but it's their prerogative.

Minors are a different matter, however.

All I'm saying is that false advertisement laws exist for a reason, and definitely should apply to conversion therapy just like it applies to homeopathic drugs (I.e., the disclaimer that they have to say that its not intended to treat, cure, or prevent any disease), just like it applies to psychic and astrological readings (I.e., the disclaimer that said readings are purely for entertainment purposes), and just like it applies to cigarettes and other forms of tobacco (I.e., the Surgeon General's Warning).

[San Marlindo]

Involuntary psychological reconditioning of any sort

Does that include drug rehab?

If it's involuntary and non-consensual, unless...

...the person is posing a direct threat to others by their actions. In which case a judge (not the junkie's family or anybody else in the self-deputized Concerned Citizens Brigade) can mandate involuntary drug rehab.

[Grenartia]

Also, I'd like to point out that even when done on adults, they're not giving truly informed consent, because they're being falsely advertised to.

Doesn't matter. False advertising does not negate consent, even ill-informed consent. You better be damn sure what you're signing up for when you put your signature on that dotted line, but that's your responsibility to be informed and not just go off some flashy advertisement. Any military recruiter will tell you this.

I guess false advertising laws are all invalid, then.

[Kramanica]

You can't really ban adults from being too stupid not to fall for things, or, to be fair, for being too confused and conflicted about their identities to go in a different direction, and I don't think you should, frankly- if someone's deep religious convictions or what have you spur them to do this kind of thing to themselves once they're of age, I'll feel sad for them, but it's their prerogative.

Minors are a different matter, however.

All I'm saying is that false advertisement laws exist for a reason, and definitely should apply to conversion therapy just like it applies to homeopathic drugs (I.e., the disclaimer that they have to say that its not intended to treat, cure, or prevent any disease), just like it applies to psychic and astrological readings (I.e., the disclaimer that said readings are purely for entertainment purposes), and just like it applies to cigarettes and other forms of tobacco (I.e., the Surgeon General's Warning).

Ban palm readings for false advertising.

[Grenartia]

All I'm saying is that false advertisement laws exist for a reason, and definitely should apply to conversion therapy just like it applies to homeopathic drugs (I.e., the disclaimer that they have to say that its not intended to treat, cure, or prevent any disease), just like it applies to psychic and astrological readings (I.e., the disclaimer that said readings are purely for entertainment purposes), and just like it applies to cigarettes and other forms of tobacco (I.e., the Surgeon General's Warning).

Ban palm readings for false advertising.

They have to give the entertainment disclaimer, as well.

[San Lumen]

I couldn't give less of a shit

why not? Its a abhorrent practice that its equivalent to torture

[San Marlindo]

Doesn't matter. False advertising does not negate consent, even ill-informed consent. You better be damn sure what you're signing up for when you put your signature on that dotted line, but that's your responsibility to be informed and not just go off some flashy advertisement. Any military recruiter will tell you this.

I guess false advertising laws are all invalid, then.

No, those laws are not invalid.

You can sue someone for false advertising, but that doesn't automatically revoke your written consent on any legally binding contract you signed with them.

[San Lumen]

Hawaii also banned gay conversion therapy earlier this year, and there are like barely any republicans in its government (zero Republican state senators), but I guess that was just for political gain too, right?

Yes.

Why are they banning only gay conversion therapy, and not all conversion therapy?

Clearly it's because LGBT stuff makes the news and is considered important to their voters. Delaware and Hawaii state governments don't really care about how unjust involuntary reconditioning programs are.

What conversion therapy aren't they banning?

This is abhorrent practice that no reputable doctor or therapist should be practicing.

In what way is it pandering for votes?

[Kramanica]

Ban palm readings for false advertising.

They have to give the entertainment disclaimer, as well.

Honestly that's one thing that should be banned, tbh.

[Senkaku]

Hawaii also banned gay conversion therapy earlier this year, and there are like barely any republicans in its government (zero Republican state senators), but I guess that was just for political gain too, right?

Yes.

Why are they banning only gay conversion therapy, and not all conversion therapy?

Clearly it's because LGBT stuff makes the news and is considered important to their voters. Delaware and Hawaii state governments don't really care about how unjust involuntary reconditioning programs are.

I don't necessarily agree with your assessment of their motives, but it's certainly a valid interpretation- but is that a basis to actually oppose the passage of this law and others like it from? Sure, #AllConversionMatters or whatever, but if you believe that, then isn't this a good first step, cleverly arranged by taking advantage of a political desire to see this specific practice ended, that can serve as a springboard for more sweeping laws?

[San Marlindo]

Yes.

Why are they banning only gay conversion therapy, and not all conversion therapy?

Clearly it's because LGBT stuff makes the news and is considered important to their voters. Delaware and Hawaii state governments don't really care about how unjust involuntary reconditioning programs are.

What conversion therapy aren't they banning?

Like I said, earlier, conversion therapy of people from minority religious sects like Hare Krishnas. They are kidnapped from their communities and involuntarily subject to a "deprogramming" process which follows the same basic routine as the conversion therapy of LGBT people.

This is abhorrent practice that no reputable doctor or therapist should be practicing.

In what way is it pandering for votes?

It's pandering for votes rather than genuine concern at the abhorrence of the practice because they banned only one type of conversion therapy, which receives the most attention from their electorate.

They did nothing about the other kinds of conversion therapy.

It's like saying "let's ban all kidnappings of gay people because LGBT rights are trendy right now!" instead of "let's ban all kidnappings, period!"

[Hrythingia]

I don’t think anyone should be forced to undergo conversion therapy but if it’s consensual then I see no reason why it should be banned.

[Vassenor]

So we're doing the whataboutism tango?

[San Lumen]

What conversion therapy aren't they banning?

Like I said, earlier, conversion therapy of people from minority religious sects like Hare Krishnas. They are kidnapped from their communities and involuntarily subject to a "deprogramming" process which follows the same basic routine as the conversion therapy of LGBT people.

This is abhorrent practice that no reputable doctor or therapist should be practicing.

In what way is it pandering for votes?

It's pandering for votes rather than genuine concern at the abhorrence of the practice because they banned only one type of conversion therapy, which receives the most attention from their electorate.

They did nothing about the other kinds of conversion therapy.

It's like saying "let's ban all kidnappings of gay people because LGBT rights are trendy right now!" instead of "let's ban all kidnappings, period!"

Why would anyone do that to a religious sect?

That's a ridiculous analogy

[San Lumen]

I don’t think anyone should be forced to undergo conversion therapy but if it’s consensual then I see no reason why it should be banned.

Why should someone be subjected to lies of a certain group of people and then take advice from a quack doctor who practices nonsense?

[Senkaku]

What conversion therapy aren't they banning?

Like I said, earlier, conversion therapy of people from minority religious sects like Hare Krishnas. They are kidnapped from their communities and involuntarily subject to a "deprogramming" process which follows the same basic routine as the conversion therapy of LGBT people.

There's what, 250K-1M Hare Krishnas in the world? Or is that just in the US? A pretty small group, either way.

This reactionary practice of complaining that everyone else wasn't included in a piece of legislation whenever a marginalized group seeks protections tires me. First #AllLivesMatter, now this sort of thing.

This is abhorrent practice that no reputable doctor or therapist should be practicing.

In what way is it pandering for votes?

It's pandering for votes rather than genuine concern at the abhorrence of the practice because they banned only one type of conversion therapy, which receives the most attention from their electorate.

They did nothing about the other kinds of conversion therapy.

It's like saying "let's ban all kidnappings of gay people because LGBT rights are trendy right now!" instead of "let's ban all kidnappings, period!"

Would you rather they just didn't do anything? Surely a partial ban is better than nothing, no?