I literally don't care if you people do or don't lmao that's kind of the point.
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by Kramanica » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:42 pm
by Kramanica » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:43 pm
Senkaku wrote:Kramanica wrote:I don't give a shit about "the libs". Christ, you people are so bloody self-obsessed you think everything's about you.
Ah yes, when I look through your posting history, I think, "now there's a guy who doesn't give a shit about politics"
Anyways, instead of dodging left and right, I suggest you go read up, and then come back to snark once you're informed enough to do it competently
by The South Falls » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:43 pm
by Clintonburge » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:43 pm
San Marlindo wrote:This is just pandering for votes because LGBT conversion therapy receives so much disproportionate media attention. Anybody remember the '80s, when "cult deprogramming" of people from minority religious groups was all the rage? Nobody cared then.
Involuntary psychological reconditioning of any sort needs to be banned, not just conversion therapy. That includes Hare Krishnas and others who are involuntarily set up for conversion-therapy style reconditioning programs for their religious beliefs.
If Delaware was really interested in combating the specific injustice overall rather than just one incarnation of it, that's what it should've done.Kramanica wrote:This is just virtue-signalling of the highest order. It's completely meaningless.
Couldn't agree more. It's pandering for votes and media coverage, not out of genuine concern for the practices of involuntary reconditioning.
by Kramanica » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:43 pm
by San Marlindo » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:44 pm
Grenartia wrote:Also, I'd like to point out that even when done on adults, they're not giving truly informed consent, because they're being falsely advertised to.
"Cold, analytical, materialistic thinking tends to throttle the urge to imagination." - Michael Chekhov
by San Marlindo » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:46 pm
Clintonburge wrote:San Marlindo wrote:This is just pandering for votes because LGBT conversion therapy receives so much disproportionate media attention. Anybody remember the '80s, when "cult deprogramming" of people from minority religious groups was all the rage? Nobody cared then.
Involuntary psychological reconditioning of any sort needs to be banned, not just conversion therapy. That includes Hare Krishnas and others who are involuntarily set up for conversion-therapy style reconditioning programs for their religious beliefs.
If Delaware was really interested in combating the specific injustice overall rather than just one incarnation of it, that's what it should've done.
Couldn't agree more. It's pandering for votes and media coverage, not out of genuine concern for the practices of involuntary reconditioning.
Hawaii also banned gay conversion therapy earlier this year, and there are like barely any republicans in its government (zero Republican state senators), but I guess that was just for political gain too, right?
"Cold, analytical, materialistic thinking tends to throttle the urge to imagination." - Michael Chekhov
by Grenartia » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:46 pm
San Marlindo wrote:Involuntary psychological reconditioning of any sort
by Kannap » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:48 pm
Luna Amore wrote:Please remember to attend the ritualistic burning of Kannap for heresy
by Grenartia » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:50 pm
Senkaku wrote:Grenartia wrote:
Also, I'd like to point out that even when done on adults, they're not giving truly informed consent, because they're being falsely advertised to.
You can't really ban adults from being too stupid not to fall for things, or, to be fair, for being too confused and conflicted about their identities to go in a different direction, and I don't think you should, frankly- if someone's deep religious convictions or what have you spur them to do this kind of thing to themselves once they're of age, I'll feel sad for them, but it's their prerogative.
Minors are a different matter, however.
by San Marlindo » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:51 pm
"Cold, analytical, materialistic thinking tends to throttle the urge to imagination." - Michael Chekhov
by Grenartia » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:51 pm
San Marlindo wrote:Grenartia wrote:Also, I'd like to point out that even when done on adults, they're not giving truly informed consent, because they're being falsely advertised to.
Doesn't matter. False advertising does not negate consent, even ill-informed consent. You better be damn sure what you're signing up for when you put your signature on that dotted line, but that's your responsibility to be informed and not just go off some flashy advertisement. Any military recruiter will tell you this.
by Kramanica » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:51 pm
Grenartia wrote:Senkaku wrote:You can't really ban adults from being too stupid not to fall for things, or, to be fair, for being too confused and conflicted about their identities to go in a different direction, and I don't think you should, frankly- if someone's deep religious convictions or what have you spur them to do this kind of thing to themselves once they're of age, I'll feel sad for them, but it's their prerogative.
Minors are a different matter, however.
All I'm saying is that false advertisement laws exist for a reason, and definitely should apply to conversion therapy just like it applies to homeopathic drugs (I.e., the disclaimer that they have to say that its not intended to treat, cure, or prevent any disease), just like it applies to psychic and astrological readings (I.e., the disclaimer that said readings are purely for entertainment purposes), and just like it applies to cigarettes and other forms of tobacco (I.e., the Surgeon General's Warning).
by Grenartia » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:53 pm
Kramanica wrote:Grenartia wrote:
All I'm saying is that false advertisement laws exist for a reason, and definitely should apply to conversion therapy just like it applies to homeopathic drugs (I.e., the disclaimer that they have to say that its not intended to treat, cure, or prevent any disease), just like it applies to psychic and astrological readings (I.e., the disclaimer that said readings are purely for entertainment purposes), and just like it applies to cigarettes and other forms of tobacco (I.e., the Surgeon General's Warning).
Ban palm readings for false advertising.
by San Marlindo » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:55 pm
Grenartia wrote:San Marlindo wrote:
Doesn't matter. False advertising does not negate consent, even ill-informed consent. You better be damn sure what you're signing up for when you put your signature on that dotted line, but that's your responsibility to be informed and not just go off some flashy advertisement. Any military recruiter will tell you this.
I guess false advertising laws are all invalid, then.
"Cold, analytical, materialistic thinking tends to throttle the urge to imagination." - Michael Chekhov
by San Lumen » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:56 pm
San Marlindo wrote:Clintonburge wrote:
Hawaii also banned gay conversion therapy earlier this year, and there are like barely any republicans in its government (zero Republican state senators), but I guess that was just for political gain too, right?
Yes.
Why are they banning only gay conversion therapy, and not all conversion therapy?
Clearly it's because LGBT stuff makes the news and is considered important to their voters. Delaware and Hawaii state governments don't really care about how unjust involuntary reconditioning programs are.
by Kramanica » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:59 pm
by Senkaku » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:01 pm
San Marlindo wrote:Clintonburge wrote:
Hawaii also banned gay conversion therapy earlier this year, and there are like barely any republicans in its government (zero Republican state senators), but I guess that was just for political gain too, right?
Yes.
Why are they banning only gay conversion therapy, and not all conversion therapy?
Clearly it's because LGBT stuff makes the news and is considered important to their voters. Delaware and Hawaii state governments don't really care about how unjust involuntary reconditioning programs are.
by San Marlindo » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:04 pm
San Lumen wrote:San Marlindo wrote:
Yes.
Why are they banning only gay conversion therapy, and not all conversion therapy?
Clearly it's because LGBT stuff makes the news and is considered important to their voters. Delaware and Hawaii state governments don't really care about how unjust involuntary reconditioning programs are.
What conversion therapy aren't they banning?
This is abhorrent practice that no reputable doctor or therapist should be practicing.
In what way is it pandering for votes?
"Cold, analytical, materialistic thinking tends to throttle the urge to imagination." - Michael Chekhov
by Hrythingia » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:05 pm
by Vassenor » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:05 pm
by San Lumen » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:07 pm
San Marlindo wrote:San Lumen wrote:What conversion therapy aren't they banning?
Like I said, earlier, conversion therapy of people from minority religious sects like Hare Krishnas. They are kidnapped from their communities and involuntarily subject to a "deprogramming" process which follows the same basic routine as the conversion therapy of LGBT people.This is abhorrent practice that no reputable doctor or therapist should be practicing.
In what way is it pandering for votes?
It's pandering for votes rather than genuine concern at the abhorrence of the practice because they banned only one type of conversion therapy, which receives the most attention from their electorate.
They did nothing about the other kinds of conversion therapy.
It's like saying "let's ban all kidnappings of gay people because LGBT rights are trendy right now!" instead of "let's ban all kidnappings, period!"
by San Lumen » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:09 pm
Hrythingia wrote:I don’t think anyone should be forced to undergo conversion therapy but if it’s consensual then I see no reason why it should be banned.
by Senkaku » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:11 pm
San Marlindo wrote:San Lumen wrote:What conversion therapy aren't they banning?
Like I said, earlier, conversion therapy of people from minority religious sects like Hare Krishnas. They are kidnapped from their communities and involuntarily subject to a "deprogramming" process which follows the same basic routine as the conversion therapy of LGBT people.
This is abhorrent practice that no reputable doctor or therapist should be practicing.
In what way is it pandering for votes?
It's pandering for votes rather than genuine concern at the abhorrence of the practice because they banned only one type of conversion therapy, which receives the most attention from their electorate.
They did nothing about the other kinds of conversion therapy.
It's like saying "let's ban all kidnappings of gay people because LGBT rights are trendy right now!" instead of "let's ban all kidnappings, period!"
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