Did we come from Incest

[Buffett and Colbert]

Yes we are all descended from Adam and Eve, but that's not incest because that would be wrong. You see, it is and it isn't, and God is 3 people but just 1 person, both dead, alive and reborn, vengeful, merciful, kind, jealous (but of no-one because there are no others), who we are grateful died (but didn't) for our sins (that he gave us no choice in having but was magnanimous enough to forgive). It all makes sense if you just forget about logic. I would, for the chance of free wine once a week.

I only remember stale smigdeons of bread and cheap ass wine for my communion.

[Marispatria]

No, just some people. Like the British.

Nice to see the contributions of the Celts, Picts, Angles, Romans, Saxons, Vikings and Normans (as well as that of more recent immigrants) to the British gene pool go completely ignored.

[Hydrosteria]

No, just some people. Like the British.

Nice to see the contributions of the Celts, Picts, Angles, Romans, Saxons, Vikings and Normans (as well as that of more recent immigrants) to the British gene pool go completely ignored.

"British" implies your families lived here for more than two generations more or less.

Hell my families been here as far back as I can trace and I look Scandinavian!

[Holy Cheese and Shoes]

Yes we are all descended from Adam and Eve, but that's not incest because that would be wrong. You see, it is and it isn't, and God is 3 people but just 1 person, both dead, alive and reborn, vengeful, merciful, kind, jealous (but of no-one because there are no others), who we are grateful died (but didn't) for our sins (that he gave us no choice in having but was magnanimous enough to forgive). It all makes sense if you just forget about logic. I would, for the chance of free wine once a week.

I only remember stale smigdeons of bread and cheap ass wine for my communion.

That sounds more like my student days (but with less communing)

It's still great value for money though! And you're getting a full meal if that wine transubstantiates.

[Brutanion]

We come from an initial bottle neck population which explains our low genetic diversity, after all, all women can trace their lineage back to a single woman via the Y chromosome. I'm not sure about us men.

Hm. Women don't have a Y chromosome. It's via the mitochondrial DNA.

Sorry, stupid moment, Women are XX men are XY and YES your completely correct it's mitochondrial DNA.

I was wondering why I had the phrase "mitochondrial Eve" floating around in my head...

Although not in birds.
And in certain voles, where all are XX, even the men.

Although experiments on animals and observations on humans show that you have to be hardcore incestuous for a rather long time before it creates any problems. For really strange evidence, look at the Cheetah population.

[Ashmoria]

Now first to all Nsers I am 100% strong christian, but I was watching tv and somebody said if Adam and Eve were related and had kids does that mean we all came from Incest? Just a thought.

you are not meant to take the story of adam and eve literally. it makes no sense as a literal story.

its just there to answer the question "where did we come from?" and "why does life suck so much?"

[Korintar]

No, because we didn't come from Adam and Eve.

Whether or not you believe in Adam and Eve doesn't exactly answer this question. Ancient humans roamed the earth in small units, many of them genetically related, it wouldn't be out of the question for incestuous relations to have occurred given the low population density of the Earth when man was first starting out.

We come from an initial bottle neck population which explains our low genetic diversity, after all, all women can trace their lineage back to a single woman via the Y chromosome. I'm not sure about us men.

Slight correction: it is the mDNA, or mitochondrial DNA, which is the matrilineal marker. For patrilineal it is the Y chromosome- one of the more damaged chromosomes I recall reading somewhere, but don't quote me on the damage thing. You are most right about the bottle neck, so I am sure that right after the events of 75,000 yrs ago (Toba supereruption) that incest probably did occur.

[Korintar]

Doh! beaten to it

[Hydrosteria]

Although not in birds.
And in certain voles, where all are XX, even the men.

Although experiments on animals and observations on humans show that you have to be hardcore incestuous for a rather long time before it creates any problems. For really strange evidence, look at the Cheetah population.

Tigers and Lions as well I think, iis certianly true, especially with rabbits. I think the human genetics are slightly "iffy" since at the first sign of inbreeding we tend to go downhill prety quickly; good old genetic diversity... which we lack.

Doh! beaten to it

Heh, yes, the oppertunities to point out my foolishness are stupendously appealing!

[Chumblywumbly]

Ancient humans roamed the earth in small units, many of them genetically related, it wouldn't be out of the question for incestuous relations to have occurred given the low population density of the Earth when man was first starting out.

Not out of the question, no, but I think we could raise doubts about brother-sister and parent-child incest, at the least.

A primatologist would know much better than I, but I don't think it's totally unfair to assume that small, spread-out populations of primates can survive without the close-proximity incest I describe above. After all, we're talking about humans with rather short lifespans, with the females of the groups (again, I imagine) being pregnant a lot, if not the majority, of the time that they could be.

Do we have any posters who could knowledgeably enlighten us?

[Grave_n_idle]

Yes we are all descended from Adam and Eve, but that's not incest because that would be wrong. You see, it is and it isn't, and God is 3 people but just 1 person, both dead, alive and reborn, vengeful, merciful, kind, jealous (but of no-one because there are no others), who we are grateful died (but didn't) for our sins (that he gave us no choice in having but was magnanimous enough to forgive). It all makes sense if you just forget about logic. I would, for the chance of free wine once a week.

I only remember stale smigdeons of bread and cheap ass wine for my communion.

Cheap ass wine?

That sounds disturbing. I mean... 'ass wine' sounds bad enough, but you have to wonder how it could be improved by being cheap...

[Phenia]

I didn't come from no incest.
I faked it.













OK, that was silly and I apologize.

[Mortshnefran]

in humans sibling incest is fairly rare, cousin or further incest is fairly common.
in non human primates sibling incest is also fairly rare due to the fact that one sex or the other usually leaves the natal group around adolescence.
Humans have an inbuilt incest mechanism whereby any children raised together in the same family during certain ages will tend to avoid mating.
there is a Y-chromosome Adam who lived in Africa about 60,000 years ago
Mitochondrial eve lived about 170,000 years ago
there is incest in human history but again it is mostly between cousins or further as these matings do not produce significantly more genetic problems than non related mating.

[Hydrosteria]

Ancient humans roamed the earth in small units, many of them genetically related, it wouldn't be out of the question for incestuous relations to have occurred given the low population density of the Earth when man was first starting out.

Not out of the question, no, but I think we could raise doubts about brother-sister and parent-child incest, at the least.

A primatologist would know much better than I, but I don't think it's totally unfair to assume that small, spread-out populations of primates can survive without the close-proximity incest I describe above. After all, we're talking about humans with rather short lifespans, with the females of the groups (again, I imagine) being pregnant a lot, if not the majority, of the time that they could be.

Do we have any posters who could knowledgeably enlighten us?

Our ancestors, I.E. the species which came before us and gave rise to us, suffered from a cataclysmic event whilst in Arfica which reduced the overall population to perhaps a few thousand lucky individuals. From this it is preusmed that a whole host of allele (DNA variations for those who aren't biology fluent) possibilities were lost, beneficial, detrimental and neutral, all of them were lost.

Of these few survivors they would have banded into groups, and as the groups came across each other they would have exchanged genetic material in a lust filled moonlight sprawl behind the bushes before moving on.

Overall, from these points, we can deduce that the genetic diversity of proto-humans was very low, however, the nature of groups of humans roving around and occassionally coming into contact and exchanging members of splitting up or even joining probably helped to keep the occourance of direct incest fairly low. However, over time individual "units" and "bands" would have grown to large numbers and with a very low amount of genetic diversity and startin members incest through cousins would have certainly occoured at a probable regular basis. Or at least I presume so, i'm not fully honed on about primate relationships, just the biology aspects.

Overall, the six billion or so humans on this planet come from a livestock of about a few thousand lucky buggers. We're all related, and our genetics are screwed, pardon the pun.

[Glorious Freedonia]

Now first to all Nsers I am 100% strong christian, but I was watching tv and somebody said if Adam and Eve were related and had kids does that mean we all came from Incest? Just a thought.

Considering tha twe call can trace our ancestry to less than 900 mothers, I would think that we got some incest in the past.

[Charles Stefan]

We're decended from Capricans and Hera.

[Phenia]

Considering tha twe call can trace our ancestry to less than 900 mothers, I would think that we got some incest in the past.

How dare you talk about my mothers like that.

We're decended from Capricans and Hera.

Kinda makes you think differently about that whole series, doesn't it?

[Rodlandia]

Even in the Bible there is a problem with the number of people around. Adam and Eve had three sons: Cain, Abel and Seth. Able died (lets gloss over the details) leaving three males and one female. You would assume at this point that we had divinely-sponsored incest to account for the rest of humanity. Maybe not.

The Bible mentions, obliquely I admit, the existence of other humans. Cain has a wife, unnamed, from the land of Nod. She had to be born somehow, from someone, unless we are to make the leap towards her also being divinely created. There were almost certainly other humans knocking about - they just didn't make it into the story.

[Greed and Death]

Doesn't Adam mean man(as in man kind) and Eve mean woman (as in woman kind ) in Hebrew ?

[Grave_n_idle]

Doesn't Adam mean man(as in man kind) and Eve mean woman (as in woman kind ) in Hebrew ?

No, it more closely means 'earth' and 'spirit'.

Like, the story of the breathing life into the figure of the man made from clay.

[Der Teutoniker]

Now first to all Nsers I am 100% strong christian, but I was watching tv and somebody said if Adam and Eve were related and had kids does that mean we all came from Incest? Just a thought.

Adam and Eve were related? I don't recall any such mention. Further, should you read the creation story outlined in Genesis, Cain ran into another group of people, and intermarried with them. So, where's the incest?

What's more, perhaps that is the case, however there was no such Biblical Law against incest at the time. So, if you are going to be a Christian, you must be willing to recognize that the media will often portray arguments counter to many Christian beliefs, which is fine, no one needs to believe anything they don't want to.

The bigger issue is how much it really matters in the end. For example, why do so many Christians care so much about the evolution and creationism debate (when they need not be mutually exclusive) when the ultimate message of the Bible is really much more about Jesus' message of love, and grace, than a few of the fine details. You need to decide how important this is to you.

[Dyakovo]

Now first to all Nsers I am 100% strong christian, but I was watching tv and somebody said if Adam and Eve were related and had kids does that mean we all came from Incest? Just a thought.

Assuming that we did come from Adam and Eve, then yes.

[Der Teutoniker]

Now first to all Nsers I am 100% strong christian, but I was watching tv and somebody said if Adam and Eve were related and had kids does that mean we all came from Incest? Just a thought.

Assuming that we did come from Adam and Eve, then yes.

Also assuming that Adam and Eve were related, but as the story recounts neither of them as having been born, it seems like they wouldn't've been related.

[Korintar]

Even in the Bible there is a problem with the number of people around. Adam and Eve had three sons: Cain, Abel and Seth. Able died (lets gloss over the details) leaving three males and one female. You would assume at this point that we had divinely-sponsored incest to account for the rest of humanity. Maybe not.

The Bible mentions, obliquely I admit, the existence of other humans. Cain has a wife, unnamed, from the land of Nod. She had to be born somehow, from someone, unless we are to make the leap towards her also being divinely created. There were almost certainly other humans knocking about - they just didn't make it into the story.

There are some who theorize that Eve was Adam's second wife to account for the fact that the creation human kind is mentioned twice in Genesis. It could be plausible then that Cain engaged in incest with his half-sister if the Genesis account were to be taken literally. All I recall was that Cain's wife was called A'wan according to Jubilees.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Simple answer... I don't know.