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[Abortion Thread] (YET ANOTHER POLL!) Honey or Vinegar?

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:09 pm
by Godular
EDITED TO ADD: YET ANOTHER POLL!

IMPORTANT MESSAGE REGARDING NEW POLL: This is to determine whether people think it's better to achieve their objectives with honey or vinegar. I think we can all agree that we would like to see the number of abortions reduced, but HOW? Would you seek to encourage women to keep the pregnancy by providing incentives? Would you slap women with the death penalty for trying to get an abortion? A little bit of both? A little bit of neither? A little bit of 'fuck off with these fucking polls you hoser'?

CHANGELOG: Altered the double standard option to be more general.
CHANGELOG: PAGE 200 POLL INITIATED


To mods: I’m hoping to keep this separate from the other currently open thread on abortion and disabilities, as that seems as a specific sub-argument for the greater issue.

Oh yeah... previous threads for reading displeasure:

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=415543 - If you had the power...
https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=388685 - pro choice or pro life / five points review


RESULTS OF PREVIOUS POLL (Only including options 1-4, so the percentages will look odd):

In a conflict of rights between a woman and a zygote/fetus/etc, who do you side with?

The Woman (Pro-Choice): 359 (37%)
The Unborn (Pro-Life): 322 (33%)
HEY! What About The Man? (I dun’ like double standards!): 90 (9%)
I Wish There Wasn’t A Conflict At All (fix other stuff first, then we can talk): 100 (10%)

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:19 pm
by Genivaria
Something that always bugs me is that too often the same people who are 'pro-life' also support measures that would actually reduce teen pregnancy rates and abortion.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:21 pm
by Geneviev
And now, let the insanity begin.

Abortion is really only justifiable if the mother's life or the child's life are in danger, but the government should not ban abortion because that won't fix the problem.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:23 pm
by Auze
New thread smell. I've learned from last time, and this I propose that we cover the surfaces with flame resistant foil.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:23 pm
by The South Falls
Geneviev wrote:And now, let the insanity begin.

Abortion is really only justifiable if the mother's life or the child's life are in danger, but the government should not ban abortion because that won't fix the problem.

So you're morally against it, but legally for it?

I'm in it full-access.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:27 pm
by Geneviev
The South Falls wrote:
Geneviev wrote:And now, let the insanity begin.

Abortion is really only justifiable if the mother's life or the child's life are in danger, but the government should not ban abortion because that won't fix the problem.

So you're morally against it, but legally for it?

I'm in it full-access.

Yeah, pretty much.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:31 pm
by Telconi
Only permitted in such a situation ad to cause a net preservation of life. Er go, when termination causes a higher number of living people than attempting to carry the pregnancy.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:44 pm
by Sovaal
I'm still pretty shaky on this subject tbh, tho if I had to pick whenever the fetus can survive outside of the mother, or just a few weeks before so.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:44 pm
by Baalkistann
To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:46 pm
by Genivaria
Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

How does it not make sense?
Do men not have that right?

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:46 pm
by Neutraligon
Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:52 pm
by Telconi
Neutraligon wrote:
Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.


Or not.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:52 pm
by Sovaal
Neutraligon wrote:
Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.

I call the gall bladder!

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:54 pm
by Baalkistann
Neutraligon wrote:
Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.


You can do whatever you want with my organs when I’m dead just like they do with the kids they abort

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:01 pm
by New haven america
Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

What century do you live in?

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:07 pm
by The Anglo-American Commonwealth
Full access, of course.
Baalkistann wrote:The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

Why?

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:17 pm
by Dogmeat
Geneviev wrote:And now, let the insanity begin.

Abortion is really only justifiable if the mother's life or the child's life are in danger, but the government should not ban abortion because that won't fix the problem.

Very well. The mothers life is always in danger. Pregnancy carries with it an increased risk of ischemic stroke and intracerebral hemorrhage. Among many other potentially fatal complications, and lifelong deterioration of health.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:54 pm
by Hakons
Neutraligon wrote:
Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.


>Pretending a fetus is like an organ

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:58 pm
by Dogmeat
Hakons wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.


>Pretending a fetus is like an organ

Did they really though?

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:10 pm
by Geneviev
New haven america wrote:
Baalkistann wrote:To me abortion is only justified in rape or when the mothers life is in danger. The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

What century do you live in?

The 21st, last I checked. And you must be in another century.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:39 pm
by Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft
Given that multiple scientific studies suggest that a fetus becomes conscious at 24-30 weeks, I'd set the limit of abortions at 24 weeks (which is also the limit of viability, so countries such as the United States and the UK can leave the limit where it is) - the vast majority of abortions (especially elective abortions) happen before 12 weeks, let alone 24, though.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:40 pm
by Senkaku
Baalkistann wrote:The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

Does "men have the right to do what they want with their bodies" make sense as a proposition?

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:42 pm
by The South Falls
Senkaku wrote:
Baalkistann wrote:The whole “women have the right to do what they want with their bodies” doesn’t make any sense to me

Does "men have the right to do what they want with their bodies" make sense as a proposition?

No one has the right to do anything with their bodies. They belong to the state now.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:00 pm
by Katganistan
I would prefer there also be comprehensive sex ed and access to low-cost/free contraception and or/the stigma is greatly reduced for being forced to use social welfare programs, to greatly reduce unintended pregnancy, but -- generally I am for abortion up until the fetus could reasonably be able to survive outside the womb, barring medical necessity.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:36 pm
by The South Falls
Let's remember, all, that the Catholic church is against contraception and abortion. It doesn't make sense.