NATION

PASSWORD

[Abortion Thread] (YET ANOTHER POLL!) Honey or Vinegar?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

Would you use honey or vinegar to address your issues with abortion?

HONEY: Encourage women to keep the pregnancy with incentives (specify if ya want)
86
25%
VINEGAR: Discourage women from getting an abortion by whatever means (specify if ya want)
42
12%
BOTH: Incentives AND Inquisitions! (For those who have to be complicated)
63
18%
NEITHER: I dun' see nuffin' wrong with how it is now. (And there's nothing wrong with that... I think)
94
27%
SHUT UP: No, YOU shut up.
62
18%
 
Total votes : 347

User avatar
Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 482
Founded: Apr 14, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio » Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:43 am

If medically necessary: any stage
If the fetus has no chance of survival anyway/already dead: Hopefully no one is against this; any stage
If the fetus can be transferred to an artificial womb or incubator with x % chance of survival: any stage (x required goes up as the technology improves; it needs tested on human fetuses anyway)
Rape or mother and father no longer together: Am unsure if ever without one of the above exceptions
Anything else: No, not without one of the above exceptions

In addition though, provide free sterilizations, birth control, and anything needed for a child for anyone desiring. If any couple has had more than two pregnancies to term, sterilize them. Make the chemtrail conspiracy of spreading anti-fertility chemicals true. Make all medical care free (along with any painkillers during birth).

Man A: Wife was pregnant with twins, one was not going to survive and was already brain dead. Doctor said that if at least that one was not aborted, then the other and his wife would die. Still against it. His wife almost died.
Man B: Has teenage daughter. Said if his daughter were raped and she would die without an abortion, that he would not allow it (parental consent was required here at that time, I believe). Said he would also keep the child (whom he was certain would be biracial) as a reminder of how good God was.
Both of these men believed it to be immoral to not have four or more children (miscarriages and stillborns count), as the world is 'underpopulated' and 'Genesis said to replenish the earth, not replace'. They also believe in mandatory capital punishment for theft and all crimes more serious (and abortion, for the mother and doctor; also for being lbgt), and that those who don't do not care enough... They also believe that for miscarriages, and when the embryo dies (even if one cell), it will go to heaven and develop at a normal rate until seven years old.

I cannot understand that. And people believing in capital punishment for such a wide range of crimes are not pro-life, just anti-abortion.
Last edited by Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio on Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
❤Pro: Immigration, gun control, demilitarization, internationalism, socialism, direct democracy, communism, disestablishmentarianism, feminism, open boarders, unity, peace, and lbgt+
Anti: Unfair wages/capitalism, war, military, violence, hate, ignorance, guns, swords, bows, arrows, racism, imperialism, patriotism, nationalism, fascism, violent protest, ANTIFA, USA, & sexism
Collectivism score: 100
Authoritarianism score: 50
Internationalism score: 33
Tribalism score: -100
Liberalism score: 83
I apologize for all the hate and violence that has been caused and will be caused by humanity.
More detailed flag and Seal
[☮] and [_✯_] ☭
Kune ni sukcesos egale
Together we prosper equally

Вместе мы процветать в равной степени

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 128997
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:46 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
The South Falls wrote:My man, did you read what Joy posted? There are people who, in Ireland, (before the referenda) that had pregnancies where the fetus couldn't have gone to term, and c-section wasn't possible. The lady died of sepsis seven days later.

It gets worse.

A woman in Ireland -- with cancer (link's behind a paywall) -- was denied a termination, despite medical advice, because her life was "not in immediate danger"). She travelled to Britain, and did live, but it used to be a regular occurrence in Ireland apparently.

Sending women to England for an abortion was a national pastime until recently.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Banter For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Snark That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Sarcasm
He/Him

Dangerous this Jack o' Hearts.
With his kiss
the riot
starts

User avatar
Auze
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1435
Founded: Oct 31, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Auze » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:05 am

Before I forget
Link to previous thread: https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=415543
Might want to place it in the OP
Tarsonis wrote: You broke the chain Auze, shame on you.
If you are reading this...
Hello, I'm an LDS kid from South Carolina!
I'm a guy that does stuff.
Best thread title ever.
We can win World War Glitter!

Anyway, how about a game?

User avatar
Irish Laren
Attaché
 
Posts: 97
Founded: Jun 09, 2018
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Irish Laren » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:53 am

The South Falls wrote:
Irish Laren wrote:
As I said: Abortion should be illegal, no matter what

My man, did you read what Joy posted? There are people who, in Ireland, (before the referenda) that had pregnancies where the fetus couldn't have gone to term, and c-section wasn't possible. The lady died of sepsis seven days later.


I am a woman
Catholic
I do not use NS stats
History of Irish Laren
Political Parties
Independent: The leader of the now banned group called "Feck the Brits" called for a civil war in Irish Laren if the President doesn't uplift the ban and ban all the British people and everything British. Which got him arrested just an hour ago and President Dave Hagen reacted to this by saying: "We do not accept such threats simply because they doesn't like the UK, we had a harsh past, but after all, the UK and Ireland are both trade partners of Irish Laren, even when Irish Laren was under British rule", the INP condemns the ant-British group and supports the President

No stereotypes about Irish Laren and Ireland please!
If ya wanna attack me personally then leave me alone

User avatar
Vassenor
Post Czar
 
Posts: 42059
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:08 pm

Irish Laren wrote:
The South Falls wrote:My man, did you read what Joy posted? There are people who, in Ireland, (before the referenda) that had pregnancies where the fetus couldn't have gone to term, and c-section wasn't possible. The lady died of sepsis seven days later.


I am a woman


And that disproves the rest of what was said how?
Jenny / Sailor Astraea
WOMAN

MtF trans and proud - She / Her / etc.
100% Asbestos Free

Hufflepuff/Team Mystic

User avatar
Geneviev
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8411
Founded: Mar 03, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Geneviev » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:10 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Irish Laren wrote:
I am a woman


And that disproves the rest of what was said how?

It's not supposed to.
Give music to dementia patients
Bring music education back to schools
"When words fail, music speaks." -Shakespeare
"Music expresses feeling and thought, without language; it was below and before speech, and it is above and beyond all words." -Robert G. Ingersoll
Now 15 years old. Listen to music and have a nice day.

User avatar
Iyrwuld
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 16
Founded: Jul 19, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Iyrwuld » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:11 pm

That's a good question which shines a light on the truth behind abortions; what constitutes life, in my opinion, is dependent on trimester. From what I've heard prior, second trimester abortions are rare if not entirely outlawed. When people are "in between", it could potentially be reference to this, or alternately be referring to the fact that rape can cause pregnancy and that some may believe this to be a pivotal point on their decisions.

User avatar
The South Falls
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10741
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The South Falls » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:11 pm

Irish Laren wrote:
The South Falls wrote:My man, did you read what Joy posted? There are people who, in Ireland, (before the referenda) that had pregnancies where the fetus couldn't have gone to term, and c-section wasn't possible. The lady died of sepsis seven days later.


I am a woman

Sorry for misgendering you. I didn't mean it. And anyway, I call everybody "my man or my guy or my mate"
This is an MT or PMT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.
Satsuki is in fact the edgiest I could get without breaking site rules.
You have seen a wild South Fallus Fallusi Texaso nativa. Your Friendly Neighborhood Black Kid. Social Democrat,
sometimes breaks rules. Sorry! I've got myself a nice situation with tea, so I'm doing good there.

Political Compass Results:

Economic: -6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.28

I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that. Yes, we're pretty much a different Australia.

User avatar
The V O I D
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15972
Founded: Apr 13, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The V O I D » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:44 pm

There is no “line” - women always have the right to abort pregnancies at any given time.

Early term abortions result in the termination of the fetus - unfortunate, but necessary, as forcing women to carry an unwanted pregnancy is just pointless, reasonless torture.

Late term abortions, especially ones after viability of the fetus is achieved, do not necessarily need to have termination; just remove the fetus and put it in the ICU for infants/fetuses until such time as they are stable, then put up for adoption or into state care.

No “lines” necessary - the pregnancy can be terminated at will, the women get control of their bodies.

User avatar
Neutraligon
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 31407
Founded: Oct 01, 2011
New York Times Democracy

Postby Neutraligon » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:48 pm

The V O I D wrote:There is no “line” - women always have the right to abort pregnancies at any given time.

Early term abortions result in the termination of the fetus - unfortunate, but necessary, as forcing women to carry an unwanted pregnancy is just pointless, reasonless torture.

Late term abortions, especially ones after viability of the fetus is achieved, do not necessarily need to have termination; just remove the fetus and put it in the ICU for infants/fetuses until such time as they are stable, then put up for adoption or into state care.

No “lines” necessary - the pregnancy can be terminated at will, the women get control of their bodies.

Who will pay for the ICU?
If you want to call me by a nickname, call me Gon...or NS Batman.
Mod stuff: One Stop Rules Shop | Reppy's Sig Workshop | Getting Help Request
Just A Little though

User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 128997
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:49 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
The V O I D wrote:There is no “line” - women always have the right to abort pregnancies at any given time.

Early term abortions result in the termination of the fetus - unfortunate, but necessary, as forcing women to carry an unwanted pregnancy is just pointless, reasonless torture.

Late term abortions, especially ones after viability of the fetus is achieved, do not necessarily need to have termination; just remove the fetus and put it in the ICU for infants/fetuses until such time as they are stable, then put up for adoption or into state care.

No “lines” necessary - the pregnancy can be terminated at will, the women get control of their bodies.

Who will pay for the ICU?

Obama?
Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Banter For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Snark That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Sarcasm
He/Him

Dangerous this Jack o' Hearts.
With his kiss
the riot
starts

User avatar
The V O I D
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15972
Founded: Apr 13, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The V O I D » Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:48 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
The V O I D wrote:There is no “line” - women always have the right to abort pregnancies at any given time.

Early term abortions result in the termination of the fetus - unfortunate, but necessary, as forcing women to carry an unwanted pregnancy is just pointless, reasonless torture.

Late term abortions, especially ones after viability of the fetus is achieved, do not necessarily need to have termination; just remove the fetus and put it in the ICU for infants/fetuses until such time as they are stable, then put up for adoption or into state care.

No “lines” necessary - the pregnancy can be terminated at will, the women get control of their bodies.

Who will pay for the ICU?


The State. Such a program would require increased funding into foster / adoptive care and state children's health care systems, but there are governmental sectors that are bloated and can afford cuts to allow for such a thing.

Point being that there is no “line” and that there also shouldn't be one. Pregnancy should be continuously optional for women. There should always be an “out” in the event a woman decides she does not wish to remain pregnant at any given time.

Minor edit: before anyone asks - yes, I support the right of bodily sovereignty of any/all born individuals. Everyone has the right to do whatever they please with their bodies, except for violate another person's bodily sovereignty. That's why I believe women should always have abortion (or, rather, pregnancy termination) as an option.
Last edited by The V O I D on Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
The blAAtschApen
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 52681
Founded: Antiquity
Forumer Mod

Postby The blAAtschApen » Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:05 pm

I draw the line at "hey the foetus can live without the mother thanks to modern technology" then we can just go for adoption.

Besides that, I'm not a doctor nor am I pregnant, so it is not my business. Hence, I am pro-choice.
Former mod, now a rocker mocker. Thank you Ringo
Heaven is other people
Behind the invisible hand of the market hides the iron fist of the state.
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect - Mark Twain
Silent is an anagram of listen.
Proud adopter of a lamb called violet: http://imgur.com/a/pxnSf
Male. Please address me as 'he'.
This is the 8th line. If your sig is longer than mine, it is too long.

User avatar
Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1235
Founded: Jun 02, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:08 pm

Katganistan wrote:
Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol wrote:
According to some research, up to 90% of Roman Catholic women use birth control. And the Catholics on NSG are mad at me for deciding to leave the Church rather than remain within and continue to disobey it. ;) :p

All of them?


No, not every single one of them, however I would say most are, from my encounters. I may add that Catholics on NSG tend to be more conservative in regards to Church dogma than their non-NSG counterparts....
Officially retired as of 8/10/2018. Don’t bother sending TG’s since I’m not coming back.

User avatar
Katganistan
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 31118
Founded: Antiquity
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Katganistan » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:45 pm

Great Mojave wrote:Condoms are okay.

However, abortion should be an emergency procedure in cases of rape and incest, and nothing else. Otherwise, you are terminating a life. If you don't have a right to live, do you even have rights? Besides, it's not a pressing women's health issue if it can be resolved by using birth control or committing sexual abstinence.

It is a pressing woman's health issue, full stop.

User avatar
Katganistan
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 31118
Founded: Antiquity
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Katganistan » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:47 pm

Irish Laren wrote:
The South Falls wrote:I think a woman has enough right to her body that she can choose if she wants to have an Abortion.


No, abortion is a crime

Clearly, it isn't.

User avatar
Mystic Warriors
Minister
 
Posts: 3068
Founded: May 10, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Mystic Warriors » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:51 pm

It's none of my business what a woman does with HER body.
Proud Trump Hater. Ban Fascism in all its forms. Disagreeing with a comment because you hate who said it is childish.

User avatar
Katganistan
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 31118
Founded: Antiquity
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Katganistan » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:53 pm

The South Falls wrote:
Irish Laren wrote:
Yes, and it's child murder

Alright, back to the old routine. if you're not born, you're not a child.

Image

User avatar
Cappuccina
Diplomat
 
Posts: 548
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Cappuccina » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:54 pm

Mystic Warriors wrote:It's none of my business what a woman does with HER body.

If it involves another person, it should.
Relax, lay back, and sip on your morning joe!!! ^_^

Kapucinu Demokratisc Polki Republik
Ni karʒe a de revolusión

User avatar
Katganistan
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 31118
Founded: Antiquity
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Katganistan » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:10 pm

Cappuccina wrote:
Mystic Warriors wrote:It's none of my business what a woman does with HER body.

If it involves another person, it should.

And yet, before viability, it does not.

Those beating the dead horse of adoption -- there are 425000 kids in the foster system, only approx. 100000 of whom are eligible for adoption. 20000 of these -- fully ONE FIFTH, or 20%, NEVER are adopted and when they age out are cut loose.

Furthermore the lovely sentiment of "infant ICUs after viability" is laudable, but folks view anyone on social welfare as parasites sucking on the government teat. There is a very loud bunch screaming about their tax dollars going to fund people in need of food and shelter, and now you want to add preemies (who will need a lot of very expensive medical care) and infants to the already strained system.

It's not feasible, no matter how laudable.

User avatar
The South Falls
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10741
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The South Falls » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:28 pm

Cappuccina wrote:
Mystic Warriors wrote:It's none of my business what a woman does with HER body.

If it involves another person, it should.

So the sovereignty of a non human goes over that of the mother?
This is an MT or PMT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.
Satsuki is in fact the edgiest I could get without breaking site rules.
You have seen a wild South Fallus Fallusi Texaso nativa. Your Friendly Neighborhood Black Kid. Social Democrat,
sometimes breaks rules. Sorry! I've got myself a nice situation with tea, so I'm doing good there.

Political Compass Results:

Economic: -6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.28

I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that. Yes, we're pretty much a different Australia.

User avatar
Godular
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9129
Founded: Sep 09, 2004
New York Times Democracy

Postby Godular » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:15 pm

Finally got home to my computer so I could think up a decent poll.

Before anybody says anything about that last option: Well, it IS unreasonable!
RL position
Active RP: ASCENSION
Active RP: SHENRYAX

Faction 1: The An'Kazar Control Framework of Godular-- A collective of formerly human bioborgs engaged in a galaxy-spanning reign of terror for as-yet-unknown reasons. (SWG)

Faction 2: The Servants of the True Way of the Will-- A multi-species anti-technology crusade that travels the galaxy in ships brought forth from the power of their own minds. (MWG) (Faction represented in WA)

A 3.1 civilization, according to this Nation Index Thingie

User avatar
The South Falls
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10741
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The South Falls » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:28 pm

Godular wrote:Finally got home to my computer so I could think up a decent poll.

Before anybody says anything about that last option: Well, it IS unreasonable!

At least 60 people will pick it.
This is an MT or PMT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.
Satsuki is in fact the edgiest I could get without breaking site rules.
You have seen a wild South Fallus Fallusi Texaso nativa. Your Friendly Neighborhood Black Kid. Social Democrat,
sometimes breaks rules. Sorry! I've got myself a nice situation with tea, so I'm doing good there.

Political Compass Results:

Economic: -6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.28

I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that. Yes, we're pretty much a different Australia.

User avatar
Godular
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9129
Founded: Sep 09, 2004
New York Times Democracy

Postby Godular » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:06 pm

The South Falls wrote:
Godular wrote:Finally got home to my computer so I could think up a decent poll.

Before anybody says anything about that last option: Well, it IS unreasonable!

At least 60 people will pick it.


If only because they'll think it's a joke option. Or to be edgy... six of one...
RL position
Active RP: ASCENSION
Active RP: SHENRYAX

Faction 1: The An'Kazar Control Framework of Godular-- A collective of formerly human bioborgs engaged in a galaxy-spanning reign of terror for as-yet-unknown reasons. (SWG)

Faction 2: The Servants of the True Way of the Will-- A multi-species anti-technology crusade that travels the galaxy in ships brought forth from the power of their own minds. (MWG) (Faction represented in WA)

A 3.1 civilization, according to this Nation Index Thingie

User avatar
Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 482
Founded: Apr 14, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:28 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
The V O I D wrote:There is no “line” - women always have the right to abort pregnancies at any given time.

Early term abortions result in the termination of the fetus - unfortunate, but necessary, as forcing women to carry an unwanted pregnancy is just pointless, reasonless torture.

Late term abortions, especially ones after viability of the fetus is achieved, do not necessarily need to have termination; just remove the fetus and put it in the ICU for infants/fetuses until such time as they are stable, then put up for adoption or into state care.

No “lines” necessary - the pregnancy can be terminated at will, the women get control of their bodies.

Who will pay for the ICU?

Perhaps [compassionate] anti-abortionists?




Godular wrote:
The South Falls wrote:At least 60 people will pick it.


If only because they'll think it's a joke option. Or to be edgy... six of one...

Well the men in my earlier spoiler would pick it...
Last edited by Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio on Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
❤Pro: Immigration, gun control, demilitarization, internationalism, socialism, direct democracy, communism, disestablishmentarianism, feminism, open boarders, unity, peace, and lbgt+
Anti: Unfair wages/capitalism, war, military, violence, hate, ignorance, guns, swords, bows, arrows, racism, imperialism, patriotism, nationalism, fascism, violent protest, ANTIFA, USA, & sexism
Collectivism score: 100
Authoritarianism score: 50
Internationalism score: 33
Tribalism score: -100
Liberalism score: 83
I apologize for all the hate and violence that has been caused and will be caused by humanity.
More detailed flag and Seal
[☮] and [_✯_] ☭
Kune ni sukcesos egale
Together we prosper equally

Вместе мы процветать в равной степени

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: -Ocelot-, Aggicificicerous, An Alan Smithee Nation, Baidu [Spider], Benuty, Chan Island, Heraswed, Kassimo, Klorgia1, Meikaii, Neanderthaland, NeoOasis, New Bremerton, Satterthwaite, Scomagia, Yereha

Advertisement

Remove ads