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[Abortion Thread] (YET ANOTHER POLL!) Taking measure.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What policies would you use to reduce abortion numbers?

Welfare Support for Single Mothers
386
17%
Free Pregnancy-Related Health Care
391
17%
Comprehensive Sex Education
473
21%
Free Contraception
393
17%
Monetary Incentives (Child Care, Tax Incentives, Kid-Related Healthcare, specify if needed)
303
13%
No Changes
37
2%
Procedure Ban (Not outlawing abortion itself, but specific procedures)
73
3%
Outright Ban (With exceptions or without)
221
10%
 
Total votes : 2277

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Tue May 21, 2019 10:05 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Do you agree that the Serbian rapists in the Yugoslav wars who raped with the express intention of forcibly breeding the Bosnians into extinction should have a say in their victims' decisions to abort or not?

Going back to this question. What is your personal opinion on this matter Akrisen?

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Tue May 21, 2019 10:06 am

Akrisen wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Where do you get that leap of logic?

Plus your not the one whose pregnant. If you have no uterus you get no opinion.

Plus you dodged my other question


The leap in logic is that rape is why any of us exist right now. I know you have your idealistic views on mankind but rape was the natural form of reproduction since the Paleolithic era meaning none of us would exist without rape and if babies spawned by rape were killed again none of us would exist. So why should a baby produced by rape be killed if you wont agree to not killing yourself?


do know what the definition of rape is?

Rape is non consensual sex.

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Drongonia
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Postby Drongonia » Tue May 21, 2019 10:07 am

Akrisen wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Its not a person. If a rape victim doesnt want the child why should they be forced to have it?

If a fetus is a person why dont we give pregnant women two votes in an election? Or count fetus in the census?


If all girls killed their rape babies none of us would exist right now.


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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Tue May 21, 2019 10:07 am

San Lumen wrote:
Akrisen wrote:
The leap in logic is that rape is why any of us exist right now. I know you have your idealistic views on mankind but rape was the natural form of reproduction since the Paleolithic era meaning none of us would exist without rape and if babies spawned by rape were killed again none of us would exist. So why should a baby produced by rape be killed if you wont agree to not killing yourself?


do know what the definition of rape is?

Rape is non consensual sex.

We'll know if he knows what rape is once he answers my Bosnian genocide question. <.<

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Tue May 21, 2019 10:10 am

San Lumen wrote:
Akrisen wrote:
The leap in logic is that rape is why any of us exist right now. I know you have your idealistic views on mankind but rape was the natural form of reproduction since the Paleolithic era meaning none of us would exist without rape and if babies spawned by rape were killed again none of us would exist. So why should a baby produced by rape be killed if you wont agree to not killing yourself?


do know what the definition of rape is?

Rape is non consensual sex.


He knows. His argument is that prehistoric men did not care about consent but just took what they wanted whenever they wanted - meaning that we are all descendants of rapists.

Which may be true. But is still a silly argument.
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Akrisen
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Postby Akrisen » Tue May 21, 2019 10:10 am

San Lumen wrote:
Akrisen wrote:
The leap in logic is that rape is why any of us exist right now. I know you have your idealistic views on mankind but rape was the natural form of reproduction since the Paleolithic era meaning none of us would exist without rape and if babies spawned by rape were killed again none of us would exist. So why should a baby produced by rape be killed if you wont agree to not killing yourself?


do know what the definition of rape is?

Rape is non consensual sex.


Indeed and for the longest time human men didnt once give a damn about women consenting to sex they just raped them anytime they wanted, and that rape is what eventually lead to us existing. So if you support killing rape babies you support ending the current human race that are already rape babies.

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Tue May 21, 2019 10:11 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
do know what the definition of rape is?

Rape is non consensual sex.


He knows. His argument is that prehistoric men did not care about consent but just took what they wanted whenever they wanted - meaning that we are all descendants of rapists.

Which may be true. But is still a silly argument.

I wonder if he has considered the fact that even if rape may have been legal in some primordial state of nature it no longer is and hasn't been for a very long time.
Last edited by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary on Tue May 21, 2019 10:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Tue May 21, 2019 10:12 am

Akrisen wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
do know what the definition of rape is?

Rape is non consensual sex.


Indeed and for the longest time human men didnt once give a damn about women consenting to sex they just raped them anytime they wanted, and that rape is what eventually lead to us existing. So if you support killing rape babies you support ending the current human race that are already rape babies.


You clearly are ignorant of history too. Provide a source for that outrageous claim. And even if its true it doesn't make it right.

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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Tue May 21, 2019 10:15 am

Akrisen wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
do know what the definition of rape is?

Rape is non consensual sex.


Indeed and for the longest time human men didnt once give a damn about women consenting to sex they just raped them anytime they wanted, and that rape is what eventually lead to us existing. So if you support killing rape babies you support ending the current human race that are already rape babies.

If we're doing appeals to history (not that I accept your unsourced claim for a minute), abortion was practised in Ancient Egypt and the Greco-Roman world.

So, there was never a need for a woman to carry a foetus to term if she truly did not wish to.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Tue May 21, 2019 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Tue May 21, 2019 10:16 am

Akrisen wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
do know what the definition of rape is?

Rape is non consensual sex.


Indeed and for the longest time human men didnt once give a damn about women consenting to sex they just raped them anytime they wanted, and that rape is what eventually lead to us existing. So if you support killing rape babies you support ending the current human race that are already rape babies.

I resent as a person your apparent idea that males of the human species procreates in general by forcibly violating the females. It is also threadjacking. Now, abortion:
Safe, rare, legal.

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Akrisen
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Postby Akrisen » Tue May 21, 2019 10:21 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Akrisen wrote:
Indeed and for the longest time human men didnt once give a damn about women consenting to sex they just raped them anytime they wanted, and that rape is what eventually lead to us existing. So if you support killing rape babies you support ending the current human race that are already rape babies.

I resent as a person your apparent idea that males of the human species procreates in general by forcibly violating the females. It is also threadjacking. Now, abortion:
Safe, rare, legal.


Stop getting offended, you said killing rape babies is wrong so killing the entire human race is fine since we are all the spawn of ancient rapist from the mesolithic era. Come on now at least be consistent with your points.

I resent as a person your apparent idea that males of the human species procreates in general by forcibly violating the females.


I guess chimps and gibbons just ask nicely right? Nope they rape all primates rape to reproduce including homini like humans for example. Its only around the start of civilization that humans began seeing rape as wrong.
Last edited by Akrisen on Tue May 21, 2019 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Jebslund
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Postby Jebslund » Tue May 21, 2019 10:27 am

Akrisen wrote:I guess chimps and gibbons just ask nicely right? Nope they rape all primates rape to reproduce including homini like humans for example. Its only around the start of civilization that humans began seeing rape as wrong.


Because primates don't have mating rituals or anything... :roll:

You know chimpanzees have been known to engage in prostitution, right? They use food where humans would use money, but it's the same deal.

Edit: I always forget to uncheck "Disable Smilies"...
Last edited by Jebslund on Tue May 21, 2019 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Tue May 21, 2019 10:27 am

Akrisen wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:I resent as a person your apparent idea that males of the human species procreates in general by forcibly violating the females. It is also threadjacking. Now, abortion:
Safe, rare, legal.


Stop getting offended, you said killing rape babies is wrong so killing the entire human race is fine since we are all the spawn of ancient rapist from the mesolithic era. Come on now at least be consistent with your points.

I resent as a person your apparent idea that males of the human species procreates in general by forcibly violating the females.


I guess chimps and gibbons just ask nicely right? Nope they rape all primates rape to reproduce including homini like humans for example. Its only around the start of civilization that humans began seeing rape as wrong.

Is this threadjack going to end with you arguing that there is nothing wrong, morally or legally with rape because factually wrong appeal to nature?
Last edited by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary on Tue May 21, 2019 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Akrisen
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Postby Akrisen » Tue May 21, 2019 10:30 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Akrisen wrote:
Stop getting offended, you said killing rape babies is wrong so killing the entire human race is fine since we are all the spawn of ancient rapist from the mesolithic era. Come on now at least be consistent with your points.



I guess chimps and gibbons just ask nicely right? Nope they rape all primates rape to reproduce including homini like humans for example. Its only around the start of civilization that humans began seeing rape as wrong.

Is this threadjack going to end with you arguing that there is nothing wrong, morally or legally with rape because factually wrong appeal to nature?


Boy getting no offended is hard eh? Again if rape babies are to be aborted then you are also in favor of the death of all of current humanity because they are also the spawn of rapist. Who are you to say that baby should perish and you greatx2000 grandparent didnt at the hands of your maternal greatx2001 grandparent? Just because its formed by rape you think it should die well you might as well just kill yourself and everyone if you want to be logically consistent.

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Tue May 21, 2019 10:31 am

Akrisen wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Is this threadjack going to end with you arguing that there is nothing wrong, morally or legally with rape because factually wrong appeal to nature?


Boy getting no offended is hard eh? Again if rape babies are to be aborted then you are also in favor of the death of all of current humanity because they are also the spawn of rapist. Who are you to say that baby should perish and you greatx2000 grandparent didnt at the hands of your maternal greatx2001 grandparent? Just because its formed by rape you think it should die well you might as well just kill yourself and everyone if you want to be logically consistent.

You seem to have deluded yourself into the wrong belief that your opponents are "pro-abortion". We are not.

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Akrisen
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Postby Akrisen » Tue May 21, 2019 10:33 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Akrisen wrote:
Boy getting no offended is hard eh? Again if rape babies are to be aborted then you are also in favor of the death of all of current humanity because they are also the spawn of rapist. Who are you to say that baby should perish and you greatx2000 grandparent didnt at the hands of your maternal greatx2001 grandparent? Just because its formed by rape you think it should die well you might as well just kill yourself and everyone if you want to be logically consistent.

You seem to have deluded yourself into the wrong belief that your opponents are "pro-abortion". We are not.


Well the guy I was talking to made the statement where he agreed that rape babies should be aborted.

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Tue May 21, 2019 10:34 am

Akrisen wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:You seem to have deluded yourself into the wrong belief that your opponents are "pro-abortion". We are not.


Well the guy I was talking to made the statement where he agreed that rape babies should be aborted.

Should the rape victim elect to abort for any reason, including the preservation of her own life in case of a child rape victim, then yes.

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Tue May 21, 2019 10:35 am

Akrisen wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:You seem to have deluded yourself into the wrong belief that your opponents are "pro-abortion". We are not.


Well the guy I was talking to made the statement where he agreed that rape babies should be aborted.


No, they argued that the woman should have the choice to abort or not.
Just like you should have to choice to give me a lifesaving bloodtransfusion or not.

We would very much like it if you choose life; but think your bodily autonomy gives you the right to not be forced into a choice you do not want.
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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Tue May 21, 2019 10:36 am

Akrisen wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:You seem to have deluded yourself into the wrong belief that your opponents are "pro-abortion". We are not.


Well the guy I was talking to made the statement where he agreed that rape babies should be aborted.

No-one said "should". Forced abortions are as bad as forbidden abortions.

Pro-choice means choice to abort and not abort. In the case of rape, that would mean a woman could abort if she -- the woman or minor girl who was raped -- wishes to exercise her bodily sovereignty to abort.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Tue May 21, 2019 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Akrisen
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Postby Akrisen » Tue May 21, 2019 10:38 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Akrisen wrote:
Well the guy I was talking to made the statement where he agreed that rape babies should be aborted.

Should the rape victim elect to abort for any reason, including the preservation of her own life in case of a child rape victim, then yes.


If preservation of life then its fine because a life for a life, but if the mom is not in danger then its evil.

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Tue May 21, 2019 10:41 am

Akrisen wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Should the rape victim elect to abort for any reason, including the preservation of her own life in case of a child rape victim, then yes.


If preservation of life then its fine because a life for a life, but if the mom is not in danger then its evil.

Who are you to pronounce this condemnation to the women of South America? On what white ivory tower do you presume to take this position from?
Last edited by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary on Tue May 21, 2019 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Tue May 21, 2019 10:43 am

Akrisen wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Should the rape victim elect to abort for any reason, including the preservation of her own life in case of a child rape victim, then yes.


If preservation of life then its fine because a life for a life, but if the mom is not in danger then its evil.

Would you be evil if you exercised bodily sovereignty and refused to donate bone marrow to a person for whom you are the only match, one who would die without it (though it would cause you no health problems to donate) -- though you didn't want to?

Would you be evil if you exercised your property rights and kicked someone out of your home, when they moved in without permission and are eating all your food and putting muddy boots all over your furniture (when they have nowhere else to go), even if you have a spare room -- though they're rude and you want them to go?
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Tue May 21, 2019 10:47 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Tue May 21, 2019 10:50 am

Akrisen wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Is this threadjack going to end with you arguing that there is nothing wrong, morally or legally with rape because factually wrong appeal to nature?


Boy getting no offended is hard eh? Again if rape babies are to be aborted then you are also in favor of the death of all of current humanity because they are also the spawn of rapist. Who are you to say that baby should perish and you greatx2000 grandparent didnt at the hands of your maternal greatx2001 grandparent? Just because its formed by rape you think it should die well you might as well just kill yourself and everyone if you want to be logically consistent.

That's enough. Suggesting that people kill themselves is against the rules here. You've made your point, now drop it, because it just got you *** warned for trolling. ***
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Highever
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Postby Highever » Tue May 21, 2019 11:00 am

Akrisen wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:You seem to have deluded yourself into the wrong belief that your opponents are "pro-abortion". We are not.


Well the guy I was talking to made the statement where he agreed that rape babies should be aborted.

And this somehow seems wrong to you? That a woman shouldnt be forced to give birth to something that is the result of her brutal and traumatic sexual assault? Even then it's not "pro -abortion", its pro allowing the woman to actually have autonomy over her own body and the choice to not have to be further traumatized by carrying and giving birth to a child conceived from rape.
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Akrisen
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Postby Akrisen » Tue May 21, 2019 11:01 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
Akrisen wrote:
If preservation of life then its fine because a life for a life, but if the mom is not in danger then its evil.

Would you be evil if you exercised bodily sovereignty and refused to donate bone marrow to a person for whom you are the only match, one who would die without it (though it would cause you no health problems to donate) -- though you didn't want to?

Would you be evil if you exercised your property rights and kicked someone out of your home, when they moved in without permission and are eating all your food and putting muddy boots all over your furniture (when they have nowhere else to go), even if you have a spare room -- though they're rude and you want them to go?


Yes you would be evil for not donating to save someone who actually needs it. No you wouldnt be evil for kicking out a bad roommate, but if you think a foetus is a roommate I suppose your eyes are roommates.

That's enough. Suggesting that people kill themselves is against the rules here. You've made your point, now drop it, because it just got you


Yh whatever you say man.

And this somehow seems wrong to you? That a woman shouldnt be forced to give birth to something that is the result of her brutal and traumatic sexual assault? Even then it's not "pro -abortion", its pro allowing the woman to actually have autonomy over her own body and the choice to not have to be further traumatized by carrying and giving birth to a child conceived from rape.


Denying a being of existence is very evil.
Last edited by Akrisen on Tue May 21, 2019 11:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

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