[Abortion Thread] (YET ANOTHER POLL!) Taking measure.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

638,000 futures are destroyed because of abortion.
98% is because mothers are too selfish and believe that sex is only a pleasurable thing and nothing else.
The other 2% is split among rape, health of mother, and health of child.
The wrongdoing of one evil man should not punish the child.

I'm going to stop this pandering pathos right here and ask for a badly needed source on these numbers chief. If you want to claim that almost all abortions are just women being selfish and want to do them so they can just keep having sex you're gonna have to back up such an insulting statement.

And you're actually essentially saying that a rape victim should be forced to carry their rapists child to term. Incredinle. Double down on your clearly insulting view of women.

[Vassenor]

638,000 futures are destroyed because of abortion.
98% is because mothers are too selfish and believe that sex is only a pleasurable thing and nothing else.
The other 2% is split among rape, health of mother, and health of child.
The wrongdoing of one evil man should not punish the child. In the case of rape, the conviction should be doubled, or even tripled if the woman becomes pregnant.
All parents should be willing to lay down their lives down to protect their children. There should be no exception, even if the child is in the womb.
Many people with birth defects have done extraordinary things. That chance should not be taken away.
Lastly, the Three Unalienable Rights in the Preamble of the Declaration of Independence is LIFE, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. All 3 of those rights that cannot be taken away gets taken away through abortion.

But it's perfectly fine to take away a woman's liberty and pursuit of happiness, and sometimes her life.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

638,000 futures are destroyed because of abortion.
98% is because mothers are too selfish and believe that sex is only a pleasurable thing and nothing else.
The other 2% is split among rape, health of mother, and health of child.
The wrongdoing of one evil man should not punish the child. In the case of rape, the conviction should be doubled, or even tripled if the woman becomes pregnant.
All parents should be willing to lay down their lives down to protect their children. There should be no exception, even if the child is in the womb.
Many people with birth defects have done extraordinary things. That chance should not be taken away.
Lastly, the Three Unalienable Rights in the Preamble of the Declaration of Independence is LIFE, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. All 3 of those rights that cannot be taken away gets taken away through abortion.

But it's perfectly fine to take away a woman's liberty and pursuit of happiness, and sometimes her life.

I was about to say how can one use the introduction of the declaration of independence and not see the irony in forcing women to potentially die to birth children, force rape victims to give birth to their raposts baby, and force women to carry a baby to term even if she does not have the means or desire to do so.

[Katganistan]

638,000 futures are destroyed because of abortion.

And countless lives not ruined.

98% is because mothers are too selfish and believe that sex is only a pleasurable thing and nothing else.

Your misogyny is showing. What of the men who don't want to support these kids, and who also feel that sex is pleasurable? And where did you get that statistic. Post it.

The other 2% is split among rape, health of mother, and health of child.

Again, link to where you got your statistics, assuming you didn't pull them out of your ass.

The wrongdoing of one evil man should not punish the child. In the case of rape, the conviction should be doubled, or even tripled if the woman becomes pregnant.

Do you understand that if you make the punishment for rape the same as for murder, that rapists will see no downside to murdering their victims because if the victim lives and they are convicted, they get the same sentence as if they killed her. If they kill her there is a chance no one finds out who did it. It's a stupid 'solution'.

All parents should be willing to lay down their lives down to protect their children. There should be no exception, even if the child is in the womb.

Appeal to emotion, binned.

Many people with birth defects have done extraordinary things. That chance should not be taken away.

You don't do anything but die with anacephaly. And there are other conditions that are painful and fatal. But that doesn't matter you you, does it? Nor that it disproportionately affects women living in poverty, which are the most likely to seek abortion.

Lastly, the Three Unalienable Rights in the Preamble of the Declaration of Independence is LIFE, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. All 3 of those rights that cannot be taken away gets taken away through abortion.

Because fetuses are NOT PEOPLE. They are NOT CITIZENS. How many times do you need to be told this?

Honestly, that you seem to advocate children being born just to suffer and die, and women being forced to bear to term even if there are compelling reasons she should not be forced to do so, is horrifying.

[Centrum Terrae]

638,000 futures are destroyed because of abortion.

And countless lives saved.

98% is because mothers are too selfish and believe that sex is only a pleasurable thing and nothing else.

Your misogyny is showing. What of the men who don't want to support these kids, and who also feel that sex is pleasurable? And where did you get that statistic. Post it.

The other 2% is split among rape, health of mother, and health of child.

Again, link to where you got your statistics, assuming you didn't pull them out of your ass.

The wrongdoing of one evil man should not punish the child. In the case of rape, the conviction should be doubled, or even tripled if the woman becomes pregnant.

Do you understand that if you make the punishment for rape the same as for murder, that rapists will see no downside to murdering their victims because if the victim lives and they are convicted, they get the same sentence as if they killed her. If they kill her there is a chance no one finds out who did it. It's a stupid 'solution'.

All parents should be willing to lay down their lives down to protect their children. There should be no exception, even if the child is in the womb.

Appeal to emotion, binned.

Many people with birth defects have done extraordinary things. That chance should not be taken away.

You don't do anything but die with anacephaly. And there are other conditions that are painful and fatal. But that doesn't matter you you, does it? Nor that it disproportionately affects women living in poverty, which are the most likely to seek abortion.
Lastly, the Three Unalienable Rights in the Preamble of the Declaration of Independence is LIFE, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. All 3 of those rights that cannot be taken away gets taken away through abortion.

Because fetuses are NOT PEOPLE. They are NOT CITIZENS. How many times do you need to be told this?

Honestly, that you seem to advocate children being born just to suffer and die, and women being forced to bear to term even if there are compelling reasons she should not be forced to do so, is horrifying.[/quote]
Source:http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html
There is always a chance someone can get away with a crime.
You've used many appeals to emotion
And there are many other defects and illnesses at birth that you can survive with.
And you are using plenty of appeals to emotion so I am "binning" this whole statement.

[Centrum Terrae]

638,000 futures are destroyed because of abortion.
98% is because mothers are too selfish and believe that sex is only a pleasurable thing and nothing else.
The other 2% is split among rape, health of mother, and health of child.
The wrongdoing of one evil man should not punish the child.

I'm going to stop this pandering pathos right here and ask for a badly needed source on these numbers chief. If you want to claim that almost all abortions are just women being selfish and want to do them so they can just keep having sex you're gonna have to back up such an insulting statement.

And you're actually essentially saying that a rape victim should be forced to carry their rapists child to term. Incredinle. Double down on your clearly insulting view of women.

Source:http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html
Again, it's not the child's fault. If anything, the government needs to help the victims. I don't know if there is a perfect solution, but I know that abortion is never a solution. Two wrongs don't necessarily make a right.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

I'm going to stop this pandering pathos right here and ask for a badly needed source on these numbers chief. If you want to claim that almost all abortions are just women being selfish and want to do them so they can just keep having sex you're gonna have to back up such an insulting statement.

And you're actually essentially saying that a rape victim should be forced to carry their rapists child to term. Incredinle. Double down on your clearly insulting view of women.

Source:http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html
Again, it's not the child's fault. If anything, the government needs to help the victims. I don't know if there is a perfect solution, but I know that abortion is never a solution. Two wrongs don't necessarily make a right.

Okay? This source lists different statistics but its sending me to a page with 10'000 links and I do not see any that say "abortions caused due to the woman being selfish and just wanting to fuck more.'
Yeah and it certainly isnt the womans fault either, and she is an actual citizen and indicidual. How the fuck can you sit there and say they should be expected to deal with carrying the result of a rape to birth?

[Centrum Terrae]

Source:http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html
Again, it's not the child's fault. If anything, the government needs to help the victims. I don't know if there is a perfect solution, but I know that abortion is never a solution. Two wrongs don't necessarily make a right.

Okay? This source lists different statistics but its sending me to a page with 10'000 links and I do not see any that say "abortions caused due to the woman being selfish and just wanting to fuck more.'
Yeah and it certainly isnt the womans fault either, and she is an actual citizen and indicidual. How the fuck can you sit there and say they should be expected to deal with carrying the result of a rape to birth?

At least in this scenario no one dies.
I know you think that you don't become a person until after birth but you won't be able to convince me.

[Bezkoshtovnya]

Okay? This source lists different statistics but its sending me to a page with 10'000 links and I do not see any that say "abortions caused due to the woman being selfish and just wanting to fuck more.'
Yeah and it certainly isnt the womans fault either, and she is an actual citizen and indicidual. How the fuck can you sit there and say they should be expected to deal with carrying the result of a rape to birth?

At least in this scenario no one dies.
I know you think that you don't become a person until after birth but you won't be able to convince me.

No, just a rape victim being traumatized by being forced to carry her rapists child in her womb and give birth to it, and psh, clearly that's not a big deal to you. Not to mention no one is dying when the fetus is aborted either. It's not a fucking person. The woman is. But clearly, you dont think the woman is much of a person either if you want to make them stay pregnant with rapists children and die attempting to give birth.

[Godular]

NEW POLL STARTED. Figure this is different enough from previous polls on the subject.

[The Free Joy State]

638,000 futures are destroyed because of abortion.
98% is because mothers are too selfish and believe that sex is only a pleasurable thing and nothing else.
The other 2% is split among rape, health of mother, and health of child.

Now for some real stats from the UK:

98% of UK abortions were under Ground C. That means that 2 doctors agreed that the woman was at risk of mental or physical health problems if the pregnancy continued (that's not just "yay! fucking is fun!", but includes rape and incest, potentially serious mental health disorders and health conditions that risk her or the foetus (including diabetes, hyperemesis gravidarum, epilepsy, and circulatory disease).

2% of abortions were performed under Ground E (after 24 weeks for severe foetal abnormality or maternal risk): 22% of which for congenital malformations of the nervous system, 34% for chromosomal abnormalities, 17% for other conditions and 27% for other congenital conditions.

So, nope... not seeing anything about "selfish sluts who want go out and do way more fucking"

The wrongdoing of one evil man should not punish the child. In the case of rape, the conviction should be doubled, or even tripled if the woman becomes pregnant.

Nor should raped women have to experience re-victimization (that means she feels as though she has been "re-raped"). Women who have been raped often suffer trauma with subsequent, consensual pregnancies with a loving partner, let alone when carrying the foetus of a rapist (of the 5% of rape victims who are impregnated, 32.4% will not discover they are pregnant until the second trimester -- possibly too late to abort in some areas -- and 50% will want to abort).

Being conceived as a result of rape can also negatively effect the foetus:

As psychologist Andrew Solomon writes in his book, Far From the Tree, children conceived of rape are more likely to suffer from severe psychological disorders, the most common of which are Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), depression, and anxiety.

They face many challenges both before and after birth. Research shows that maternal stress severely affects embryological development. Many women who are raped opt to take antidepressants to help them cope, which can harm the fetus.

If the rape victim is a child, carrying the foetus is highly dangerous and may result in her death -- as has happened in Paraguay (with a rape victim who was only fourteen).

Why should rape victims have to risk their mental and physical health for a foetus they never had any part in choosing to conceive?

All parents should be willing to lay down their lives down to protect their children. There should be no exception, even if the child is in the womb.

Appeal to emotion noted and ignored.

Many people with birth defects have done extraordinary things. That chance should not be taken away.

And many have gone on to live short lives filled with horrible suffering (as Kat has already outlined). So your attempt at an appeal to potential is lost on me.

And why will no pro-lifer answer my McFall v. Shimp question?

Why do you not want to fight for all born persons -- male and female -- to have no medical body autonomy? Why do you not want to overturn the case that guarantees no person can be forced to maintain the life of any other (people who will die without the use of that other person's body)?

Why do you not want to fight for men and women to be forced to give up bone marrow, blood and body organs to any compatible relative -- who will die without them -- against their will?

After all, that is the case that says all persons have body autonomy (meaning, even if a foetus were a person women couldn't be forced to maintain it). So why not fight to overturn the case, enabling everyone to be forced to donate bone marrow?

[Estanglia]

And countless lives saved.

Your misogyny is showing. What of the men who don't want to support these kids, and who also feel that sex is pleasurable? And where did you get that statistic. Post it.
Again, link to where you got your statistics, assuming you didn't pull them out of your ass.
Do you understand that if you make the punishment for rape the same as for murder, that rapists will see no downside to murdering their victims because if the victim lives and they are convicted, they get the same sentence as if they killed her. If they kill her there is a chance no one finds out who did it. It's a stupid 'solution'.
Appeal to emotion, binned.

You don't do anything but die with anacephaly. And there are other conditions that are painful and fatal. But that doesn't matter you you, does it? Nor that it disproportionately affects women living in poverty, which are the most likely to seek abortion.

Because fetuses are NOT PEOPLE. They are NOT CITIZENS. How many times do you need to be told this?

Honestly, that you seem to advocate children being born just to suffer and die, and women being forced to bear to term even if there are compelling reasons she should not be forced to do so, is horrifying.

Source:http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html
There is always a chance someone can get away with a crime.
You've used many appeals to emotion
And there are many other defects and illnesses at birth that you can survive with.
And you are using plenty of appeals to emotion so I am "binning" this whole statement.

Oh the irony.

638,000 futures are destroyed because of abortion.
98% is because mothers are too selfish and believe that sex is only a pleasurable thing and nothing else.
The other 2% is split among rape, health of mother, and health of child.
The wrongdoing of one evil man should not punish the child. In the case of rape, the conviction should be doubled, or even tripled if the woman becomes pregnant.
All parents should be willing to lay down their lives down to protect their children. There should be no exception, even if the child is in the womb.
Many people with birth defects have done extraordinary things. That chance should not be taken away.
Lastly, the Three Unalienable Rights in the Preamble of the Declaration of Independence is LIFE, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. All 3 of those rights that cannot be taken away gets taken away through abortion.

You go ahead and post a post riddled with appeals to emotion then turn around and say another post is invalid because of appeals to emotion.

[The New California Republic]

Source:http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html
There is always a chance someone can get away with a crime.
You've used many appeals to emotion
And there are many other defects and illnesses at birth that you can survive with.
And you are using plenty of appeals to emotion so I am "binning" this whole statement.

Oh the irony.

638,000 futures are destroyed because of abortion.
98% is because mothers are too selfish and believe that sex is only a pleasurable thing and nothing else.
The other 2% is split among rape, health of mother, and health of child.
The wrongdoing of one evil man should not punish the child. In the case of rape, the conviction should be doubled, or even tripled if the woman becomes pregnant.
All parents should be willing to lay down their lives down to protect their children. There should be no exception, even if the child is in the womb.
Many people with birth defects have done extraordinary things. That chance should not be taken away.
Lastly, the Three Unalienable Rights in the Preamble of the Declaration of Independence is LIFE, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. All 3 of those rights that cannot be taken away gets taken away through abortion.

You go ahead and post a post riddled with appeals to emotion then turn around and say another post is invalid because of appeals to emotion.

It's fucking hilariously pathetic isn't it?

[Romanian-Slavia]

Oh the irony.



You go ahead and post a post riddled with appeals to emotion then turn around and say another post is invalid because of appeals to emotion.

It's fucking hilariously pathetic isn't it?

No, is not

[Estanglia]

It's fucking hilariously pathetic isn't it?

No, is not

Pathetic may be a bit too strong, but, for the lack of a better word, it's quite pathetic to complain about someone else using a fallacy (and, looking at Katganistan's post, the 'emotional appeal' was, if it was the misogyny statement, not the main point, and, if it was the last sentence, was probably as only as bad as all the emotional appeals constantly hurled at us) whilst you yourself (general 'you') have used this fallacy more frequently.

[The Caleshan Valkyrie]

It's fucking hilariously pathetic isn't it?

No, is not

It rather is. It is also quite certainly counterproductive, as legal abortion is presently the status quo. The onus is on the side opposing that status quo to convince us why it should be overturned, which is best done by meeting expected standards. Copy pasta and emotional appeals are both not up to those standards and also rather cliché.

[Vassenor]

No, is not

It rather is. It is also quite certainly counterproductive, as legal abortion is presently the status quo. The onus is on the side opposing that status quo to convince us why it should be overturned, which is best done by meeting expected standards. Copy pasta and emotional appeals are both not up to those standards and also rather cliché.

Especially when those appeals to emotion are entirely at odds with reality.

[Katganistan]

Source:http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html
There is always a chance someone can get away with a crime.
You've used many appeals to emotion
And there are many other defects and illnesses at birth that you can survive with.
And you are using plenty of appeals to emotion so I am "binning" this whole statement.

You statement that I use 'many appeals to emotion' is full of shit. I have used facts and statistics, which you have not.

I never said there were not defects you can't survive with. That is a strawman. You seem to believe quality of life is nothing to consider. But sure, you can bring children into this world who have something as relatively benign as a heart defect that can be repaired with surgeries, or you can bring into the world a child with harlequin ichthyosis which is a lifelong condition to live with, or cerebral palsy, or multiple sclerosis. I'm sure their shortened lives, they and their families' suffering, and crushing medical bills on top of them are all worth it to someone who wants to force it on others.

Know which kids have some of the worst chances of being adopted? Children with disabilities.

And adoption is not the perfect cure. I say that having two adopted cousins, who were fortunate in that they didn't seem to suffer from any of these.

Some people decide that it is worth it and continue the pregnancy. That's what choice is about.

Some don't find out until they deliver that there is one of these conditions, and do all they can to protect their child.

Some can't afford it and don't have the mental, emotional and spiritual strength to deal with it, and to say they must is horrifyingly callous.

Seriously, until you can actually back up your arguments with something more than "its murder, they're people", and then dumping links without explanation, there's no reason to listen to your nonsense.

[Vassenor]

And Trump is back to going on about how abortion involves waiting until after delivery then executing the baby.

I... just... what.

[Katganistan]

And Trump is back to going on about how abortion involves waiting until after delivery then executing the baby.

I... just... what.

Trump is a troll, if you haven't figured it out.

Regarding the new poll: I would use honey (incentives) to reduce abortion.

• Better sexual education.
• Better access to birth control and family planning.
• Access to free childcare for infants up to pre-K aged kids.
• Universal Pre-K.
• Help to finish education -- in one of the high schools I worked at, they had a nursery so students could get their diploma and not have to worry about babysitters or staying home to care for a baby.
• Career training, so single or impoverished parents can qualify for a better job.
• Career placement.
• Access to free or sub-sized healthcare.

TBH these should be offered to everyone, not just parents who might otherwise choose abortion. But with the incentives making it possible to support one's own child without destroying the life of a single, teen or impoverished parent, the reasons people choose abortion would diminish, leaving many instances of abortion to be for health risks for mother, rape, and profound and/or fatal defects in the fetus.

Okay? This source lists different statistics but its sending me to a page with 10'000 links and I do not see any that say "abortions caused due to the woman being selfish and just wanting to fuck more.'
Yeah and it certainly isnt the womans fault either, and she is an actual citizen and indicidual. How the fuck can you sit there and say they should be expected to deal with carrying the result of a rape to birth?

At least in this scenario no one dies.
I know you think that you don't become a person until after birth but you won't be able to convince me.

So you tacitly admit your link doesn't even say what you think it says by ignoring the objection to it and going right back to appeal to emotion.

Right, just about what I thought. It's not even important to your argument and you haven't bothered to check if "98% selfishness" is accurate.

[Godular]

I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up yet.

Trump doing what he does best: Lying badly and somehow his supporters accept said bullshit. This one's a particularly dangerous load of bullshit though, and I kinda worry.

[San Lumen]

I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up yet.

Trump doing what he does best: Lying badly and somehow his supporters accept said bullshit. This one's a particularly dangerous load of bullshit though, and I kinda worry.

That has to be one of the most insane things I've heard on the topic. Hes literally inciting violence among his most rapid followers to attack Planned Parenthood clinics or abortion doctors. I would not be shocked to see something like that in the near future

[Vassenor]

I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up yet.

Trump doing what he does best: Lying badly and somehow his supporters accept said bullshit. This one's a particularly dangerous load of bullshit though, and I kinda worry.

And Trump is back to going on about how abortion involves waiting until after delivery then executing the baby.

I... just... what.

So yeah, kind of was brought up.

[The Caleshan Valkyrie]

I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up yet.

Trump doing what he does best: Lying badly and somehow his supporters accept said bullshit. This one's a particularly dangerous load of bullshit though, and I kinda worry.

And Trump is back to going on about how abortion involves waiting until after delivery then executing the baby.

I... just... what.

So yeah, kind of was brought up.

Oops.

Um.

NEEDED A LINK!

Or something... yeah, that’s the ticket!

[The New California Republic]

I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up yet.

Trump doing what he does best: Lying badly and somehow his supporters accept said bullshit. This one's a particularly dangerous load of bullshit though, and I kinda worry.

That has to be one of the most insane things I've heard on the topic. Hes literally inciting violence among his most rapid followers to attack Planned Parenthood clinics or abortion doctors. I would not be shocked to see something like that in the near future

Judging by they way that some on this thread have been screaming to high heaven about "the murder of children" etc it doesn't surprise me in the least.