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[Abortion Thread] (YET ANOTHER POLL!) Taking measure.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What policies would you use to reduce abortion numbers?

Welfare Support for Single Mothers
481
17%
Free Pregnancy-Related Health Care
494
17%
Comprehensive Sex Education
604
21%
Free Contraception
499
17%
Monetary Incentives (Child Care, Tax Incentives, Kid-Related Healthcare, specify if needed)
375
13%
No Changes
47
2%
Procedure Ban (Not outlawing abortion itself, but specific procedures)
89
3%
Outright Ban (With exceptions or without)
281
10%
 
Total votes : 2870

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Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft
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Postby Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:41 pm

The South Falls wrote:Let's remember, all, that the Catholic church is against contraception and abortion. It doesn't make sense.

I think they're on the "women are baby factories" side

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The South Falls
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Postby The South Falls » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:54 pm

Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft wrote:
The South Falls wrote:Let's remember, all, that the Catholic church is against contraception and abortion. It doesn't make sense.

I think they're on the "women are baby factories" side

That no women controls her own body.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:41 pm

Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft wrote:
The South Falls wrote:Let's remember, all, that the Catholic church is against contraception and abortion. It doesn't make sense.

I think they're on the "women are baby factories" side


Something something but God's plan something something
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The South Falls
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Postby The South Falls » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:44 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft wrote:I think they're on the "women are baby factories" side


Something something but God's plan something something

Women are slaves to man... something something
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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:56 pm

Baalkistann wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.


You can do whatever you want with my organs when I’m dead just like they do with the kids they abort

Why should I wait for if you are dead, after all why should you have the right to do with your body what you want when I have use for it.
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Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol
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Postby Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:59 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft wrote:I think they're on the "women are baby factories" side


Something something but God's plan something something


It comes from the RCC belief that when married heterosexual couple has sex, they are fulfilling “the Holy Sacarment” of marriage. Birth control is seen as giving the middle finger to God.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:59 pm

Baalkistann wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:So long as I can take your organs and enslave you in turn.


You can do whatever you want with my organs when I’m dead just like they do with the kids they abort


If a woman does not have the right to do what she wants with her body when she is alive then neither do you. You don't have the right to set that "only after I'm dead" caveat.
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Sovaal
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Postby Sovaal » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:59 pm

Conservative religious I isntitition is conservative in regards to the abortion debate. Colored me surprise./s
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Dogmeat
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Postby Dogmeat » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:00 am

The South Falls wrote:Let's remember, all, that the Catholic church is against contraception and abortion. It doesn't make sense.

It makes complete sense. Forgiveness is their business, and the best way to keep business good is to make sure that everyone is perpetually guilty of something.
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Sovaal
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Postby Sovaal » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:01 am

Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft wrote:Given that multiple scientific studies suggest that a fetus becomes conscious at 24-30 weeks, I'd set the limit of abortions at 24 weeks (which is also the limit of viability, so countries such as the United States and the UK can leave the limit where it is) - the vast majority of abortions (especially elective abortions) happen before 12 weeks, let alone 24, though.

That seems fair enough. A revamp of sex education, at least here in the states, would be nice as well.
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

”Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." -
Winston Churchill, 1947.

"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

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Sovaal
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Postby Sovaal » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:02 am

Dogmeat wrote:
The South Falls wrote:Let's remember, all, that the Catholic church is against contraception and abortion. It doesn't make sense.

It makes complete sense. Forgiveness is their business, and the best way to keep business good is to make sure that everyone is perpetually guilty of something.

I mean they don’t exactly have to ah e some big conspiracy going on for that. I’m not the biggest fan of organized religion but people aren’t perfect.

Anyway, off topic.
Most of the time I have no idea what the hell I'm doing or talking about.

”Many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe.
No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is
the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried from time to time." -
Winston Churchill, 1947.

"Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon – so long as there is no answer to it – gives claws to the weak.” - George Orwell

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Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol
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Postby Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:07 am

Dogmeat wrote:
The South Falls wrote:Let's remember, all, that the Catholic church is against contraception and abortion. It doesn't make sense.

It makes complete sense. Forgiveness is their business, and the best way to keep business good is to make sure that everyone is perpetually guilty of something.


According to some research, up to 90% of Roman Catholic women use birth control. And the Catholics on NSG are mad at me for deciding to leave the Church rather than remain within and continue to disobey it. ;) :p
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:18 am

Personally speaking, if the fetus is viable, pending a serious medical scenario, I wouldn't abort. In fact, we seldom perform the procedure in the late stages of a pregnancy. But that's just my opinion on my own hypothetical pregnancy. I am in favor of access to abortion at any point during the pregnancy if that's what the mother, or parents along with having consulted their healthcare provider, decide is the best course of action.

I also think it should be viewed the same in law. Legal access at any point during pregnancy. To me, an abortion is a medically necessary procedure for many, no different than a tooth extraction. It's a private matter and it should be left to those personally involved (the woman and/or partner) to decide what is best for them.
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Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol
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Postby Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:22 am

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Personally speaking, if the fetus is viable, pending a serious medical scenario, I wouldn't abort. In fact, we seldom perform the procedure in the late stages of a pregnancy. But that's just my opinion on my own hypothetical pregnancy. I am in favor of access to abortion at any point during the pregnancy if that's what the mother, or parents along with having consulted their healthcare provider, decide is the best course of action.

I also think it should be viewed the same in law. Legal access at any point during pregnancy. To me, an abortion is a medically necessary procedure for many, no different than a tooth extraction. It's a private matter and it should be left to those personally involved (the woman and/or partner) to decide what is best for them.


I agree. If we lived in a society were women had to go to back allies to terminate a pregnancy, it would lead to more horrible accidents and/or deaths. However, I’m getting a vibe from many anti-abortion activists believe that women who die from unsafe abortion methods(due to not having access to safe ones) that they believe these women “deserve what happens to them”....
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The South Falls
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Postby The South Falls » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:24 am

Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Personally speaking, if the fetus is viable, pending a serious medical scenario, I wouldn't abort. In fact, we seldom perform the procedure in the late stages of a pregnancy. But that's just my opinion on my own hypothetical pregnancy. I am in favor of access to abortion at any point during the pregnancy if that's what the mother, or parents along with having consulted their healthcare provider, decide is the best course of action.

I also think it should be viewed the same in law. Legal access at any point during pregnancy. To me, an abortion is a medically necessary procedure for many, no different than a tooth extraction. It's a private matter and it should be left to those personally involved (the woman and/or partner) to decide what is best for them.


I agree. If we lived in a society were women had to go to back allies to terminate a pregnancy, it would lead to more horrible accidents and/or deaths. However, I’m getting a vibe from many anti-abortion activists believe that women who die from unsafe abortion methods(due to not having access to safe ones) that they believe these women “deserve what happens to them”....

I don't get conservatism. They protect cells that aren't humans, yet put kids in cages. It makes me shrug.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:26 am

Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Personally speaking, if the fetus is viable, pending a serious medical scenario, I wouldn't abort. In fact, we seldom perform the procedure in the late stages of a pregnancy. But that's just my opinion on my own hypothetical pregnancy. I am in favor of access to abortion at any point during the pregnancy if that's what the mother, or parents along with having consulted their healthcare provider, decide is the best course of action.

I also think it should be viewed the same in law. Legal access at any point during pregnancy. To me, an abortion is a medically necessary procedure for many, no different than a tooth extraction. It's a private matter and it should be left to those personally involved (the woman and/or partner) to decide what is best for them.


I agree. If we lived in a society were women had to go to back allies to terminate a pregnancy, it would lead to more horrible accidents and/or deaths. However, I’m getting a vibe from many anti-abortion activists believe that women who die from unsafe abortion methods(due to not having access to safe ones) that they believe these women “deserve what happens to them”....


I can't say one way or the other. If some think that, shame on them. All I know is that that's how I would proceed. I draw the line at viability, provided my medical condition isn't more serious that it would require termination. However, other women should have the choice to decide what's best for them. Hence why access to abortion shouldn't be limited. It should be available throughout the entire pregnancy.
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Katganistan
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Postby Katganistan » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:28 am

The South Falls wrote:Let's remember, all, that the Catholic church is against contraception and abortion. It doesn't make sense.

They aren't the only ones. Remember, when JFK took office it was a SHOCK that a CATHOLIC would serve.

Many of the loudest anti-choice anti-contraception voices are Christians of other sects.

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Katganistan
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Postby Katganistan » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:30 am

Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:It makes complete sense. Forgiveness is their business, and the best way to keep business good is to make sure that everyone is perpetually guilty of something.


According to some research, up to 90% of Roman Catholic women use birth control. And the Catholics on NSG are mad at me for deciding to leave the Church rather than remain within and continue to disobey it. ;) :p

All of them?

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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Democratic Socialists

Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:19 am

Genivaria wrote:Something that always bugs me is that too often the same people who are 'pro-life' also support measures that would actually reduce teen pregnancy rates and abortion.

Because they'd be percieved as legitimizing teen sex. I can see where they're coming from. It's unfortunate but not hypocritical.

In theory I could see merit to drawing the line at the 3rd trimester on account of sentience, but in practice there's often a serious risk of serious complications from pregnancy after that point and granting exceptions "case-by-case" might deny women access to genuinely necessary abortions.
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Great Mojave
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Postby Great Mojave » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:24 am

Condoms are okay.

However, abortion should be an emergency procedure in cases of rape and incest, and nothing else. Otherwise, you are terminating a life. If you don't have a right to live, do you even have rights? Besides, it's not a pressing women's health issue if it can be resolved by using birth control or committing sexual abstinence.
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Irish Laren
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Postby Irish Laren » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:25 am

I think abortion should be fully illegal, no matter what
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:38 am

If someone is pregnant and doesn't want to be then they should be able to go to their doctor and have their pregnancy terminated. I don't see any need for more limits than that.
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The South Falls
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Postby The South Falls » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:39 am

Irish Laren wrote:I think abortion should be fully illegal, no matter what

You want people to have babies conceived of rape? What if mother's lives are at serious risk? (Ectopic pregnancies, etc.)
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Irish Laren
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Postby Irish Laren » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:43 am

The South Falls wrote:
Irish Laren wrote:I think abortion should be fully illegal, no matter what

You want people to have babies conceived of rape? What if mother's lives are at serious risk? (Ectopic pregnancies, etc.)


C-sections are a good option if their mother's live is at risk, and my mother had a high blood pressure, so i was forced to born earlier, (I should be born in March). And they can aso adopt the baby after the birth
Last edited by Irish Laren on Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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History of Irish Laren
Political Parties
Independent: The leader of the now banned group called "Feck the Brits" called for a civil war in Irish Laren if the President doesn't uplift the ban and ban all the British people and everything British. Which got him arrested just an hour ago and President Dave Hagen reacted to this by saying: "We do not accept such threats simply because they doesn't like the UK, we had a harsh past, but after all, the UK and Ireland are both trade partners of Irish Laren, even when Irish Laren was under British rule", the INP condemns the ant-British group and supports the President

No stereotypes about Irish Laren and Ireland please!
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Page
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Postby Page » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:43 am

I think abortion should be unrestricted up to 26 weeks, because at this point the fetus still has not developed a functioning nervous system, does not feel pain, and certainly isn't sentient, and I don't have a problem with medically justified late term abortions.
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