[Abortion Thread] (YET ANOTHER POLL!) Taking measure.

[Cantelo]

Nor has the fetus.

It has if the woman doesn't want it to be there and she is prevented from seeking any recourse.

a fetus is a person, because it is a human, and the definition of a person is a single human.

No, we have been over this with you repeatedly. Again and again and again. Come on man.

Dude it’s hopeless. This guy would argue against gravity if the Bible so much as hinted at a vague concept which could be contrived into refuting it and say God allows him to trip and fall on his ass because of HingaDinga 2:91 or something

[Antityranicals]

If by killing you, some woman could, for reasons that are irrelevant, alleviate the burden of a horrific and traumatic experience which she suffered, would she be justified in killing you?

No, because they are a person. Your refusal to see the difference doesn't make said difference disappear.

A person is an individual member of the species homo sapiens, such as a human fetus.

[The New California Republic]

No, we have been over this with you repeatedly. Again and again and again. Come on man.

Yes, we have been over this, over and over again, and I'm tired of you not mounting any defense against it. Either admit it, or come up with some reason why I'm wrong.

We have told you repeatedly why you are wrong. You just ignore it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Yo Antityranicals, how's that fetus limbo?

[Antityranicals]

It has if the woman doesn't want it to be there and she is prevented from seeking any recourse.


No, we have been over this with you repeatedly. Again and again and again. Come on man.

Dude it’s hopeless. This guy would argue against gravity if the Bible so much as hinted at a vague concept which could be contrived into refuting it and say God allows him to trip and fall on his ass because of HingaDinga 2:91 or something

Why doesn't anyone understand that the Bible isn't Church doctrine? The Bible is just a collection of stories in which we can find inspiration. If you want what Catholics believe, read the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Dude it’s hopeless. This guy would argue against gravity if the Bible so much as hinted at a vague concept which could be contrived into refuting it and say God allows him to trip and fall on his ass because of HingaDinga 2:91 or something

Why doesn't anyone understand that the Bible isn't Church doctrine? The Bible is just a collection of stories in which we can find inspiration. If you want what Catholics believe, read the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Ah yes the Doctrine of the fetus limbo.

[Antityranicals]

Yes, we have been over this, over and over again, and I'm tired of you not mounting any defense against it. Either admit it, or come up with some reason why I'm wrong.

We have told you repeatedly why you are wrong. You just ignore it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I destroyed that corpse argument you tried to mount, as well as that tumor argument. They were so bad that I'm being charitable and not considering them as arguments, because that would be embarrassing.

[Cantelo]

Yeah let’s totally ignore the emotional and physical trauma that every birth entails, then magnify it by a thousand when we factor in the pregnancy was due to a rape.

You might as well say that you’re okay with women bearing the burden of a horrific and traumatic experience for the rest of their lives and tell us to go fuck ourselves.

I think women are stronger than you give them credit for. In any case, I'd like to recall the example I gave you yesterday: If by killing you, some woman could, for reasons that are irrelevant, alleviate the burden of a horrific and traumatic experience which she suffered, would she be justified in killing you?

Im being realistic, cut the shit man. I know people who have been sexually assaulted and how it ruined their fucking lives. If I were to become a victim of rape I don’t know what I would do and frankly I don’t know if I could deal with the shame and disgust; getting pregnant from it would just be the awful cherry on top. You really do not know what it’s like nor what you are talking about, and that’s what makes every single word you say so unbelievably frustrating.

EDIT: in case it hasn’t been made clear, I’m a woman myself.

[Antityranicals]

Why doesn't anyone understand that the Bible isn't Church doctrine? The Bible is just a collection of stories in which we can find inspiration. If you want what Catholics believe, read the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Ah yes the Doctrine of the fetus limbo.

What does that mean?

[The New California Republic]

We have told you repeatedly why you are wrong. You just ignore it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I destroyed that corpse argument you tried to mount, as well as that tumor argument.

No, you really didn't.

They were so bad that I'm being charitable and not considering them as arguments, because that would be embarrassing.

There are pages and pages and pages of quotes of people refuting your argument that the fetus is a person, that you have consistently ignored.

[Antityranicals]

I think women are stronger than you give them credit for. In any case, I'd like to recall the example I gave you yesterday: If by killing you, some woman could, for reasons that are irrelevant, alleviate the burden of a horrific and traumatic experience which she suffered, would she be justified in killing you?

Im being realistic, cut the shit man. I know people who have been sexually assaulted and how it ruined their fucking lives. If I were to become a victim of rape I don’t know what I would do and frankly I don’t know if I could deal with the shame and disgust; getting pregnant from it would just be the awful cherry on top. You really do not know what it’s like nor what you are talking about, and that’s what makes every single word you say so unbelievably frustrating.

I'm being realistic. Imagine this woman has gone through everything you've ever described, but a thousand times worse, and she can make it all go away by killing you. Would that be okay? Don't let emotion cloud your thoughts, come to a serious conclusion on this serious question.

[Makdon]

I'm being realistic. Imagine this woman has gone through everything you've ever described, but a thousand times worse, and she can make it all go away by killing you. Would that be okay? Don't let emotion cloud your thoughts, come to a serious conclusion on this serious question.

We've said it once, we'll say it a thousand times. Killing a fetus is not the same as killing a living human

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Ah yes the Doctrine of the fetus limbo.

What does that mean?

That your budget for making moral pronouncements on the basis of an institution that has yet to decide in 2019 if unbaptised infants go to heaven or hell is very limited.

[Antityranicals]

What does that mean?

That your budget for making moral pronouncements on the basis of an institution that has yet to decide in 2019 if unbaptised infants go to heaven or hell is very limited.

No, it was decided with Vatican II in 1965 that they go to heaven, along with all other righteous unbelievers.

[Cantelo]

Im being realistic, cut the shit man. I know people who have been sexually assaulted and how it ruined their fucking lives. If I were to become a victim of rape I don’t know what I would do and frankly I don’t know if I could deal with the shame and disgust; getting pregnant from it would just be the awful cherry on top. You really do not know what it’s like nor what you are talking about, and that’s what makes every single word you say so unbelievably frustrating.

I'm being realistic. Imagine this woman has gone through everything you've ever described, but a thousand times worse, and she can make it all go away by killing you. Would that be okay? Don't let emotion cloud your thoughts, come to a serious conclusion on this serious question.

My serious conclusion is that I'm not a fetus implanted into a woman through rape.

If I were to be raped and ended up pregnant, I would do anything to get an abortion. There is nothing that would make me carry the child of someone that violates me and frankly I would go to any length to prevent my life from revolving around a child born of my sexual assault. Putting the kid up to foster isn't an option either because I do not consent to going through childbirth nor having a C-Section.

Look I hate saying this, but it's shit like this that makes me want to lean more towards the opinion of "if you don't have a vagina then you have no right to legislate abortion" (though that realistically isn't the best mindset to have).

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

That your budget for making moral pronouncements on the basis of an institution that has yet to decide in 2019 if unbaptised infants go to heaven or hell is very limited.

No, it was decided with Vatican II in 1965 that they go to heaven, along with all other righteous unbelievers.

Benedict XVI seems to disagree. Meanwhile... it must be said to be amusing that you have the chutzpah to base your arguments here on an institution whose individuals have such dubious sexual mores it's depressingly hilarious. You got huevos I give you that.

[The New California Republic]

If I were to be raped and ended up pregnant, I would do anything to get an abortion. There is nothing that would make me carry the child of someone that violates me and frankly I would go to any length to prevent my life from revolving around a child born of my sexual assault. Putting the kid up to foster isn't an option either because I do not consent to going through childbirth nor having a C-Section.

And I don't see how Antityranicals would propose to enforce a ban, given his Libertarian views, as well as the actual practicalities of it.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

If I were to be raped and ended up pregnant, I would do anything to get an abortion. There is nothing that would make me carry the child of someone that violates me and frankly I would go to any length to prevent my life from revolving around a child born of my sexual assault. Putting the kid up to foster isn't an option either because I do not consent to going through childbirth nor having a C-Section.

And I don't see how Antityranicals would propose to enforce it, given his Libertarian views, as well as the actual practicalities of it.

Libertarian until it's about the vagina.

[The New California Republic]

And I don't see how Antityranicals would propose to enforce it, given his Libertarian views, as well as the actual practicalities of it.

Libertarian until it's about the vagina.

He actually admitted as much earlier:

The government has no place in your private life, unless your private life consists of killing your child.

[Kernen]

And I don't see how Antityranicals would propose to enforce it, given his Libertarian views, as well as the actual practicalities of it.

Libertarian until it's about the vagina.

Useful time to point out again that there is no penalty for doing something immoral but legal.

[Antityranicals]

I'm being realistic. Imagine this woman has gone through everything you've ever described, but a thousand times worse, and she can make it all go away by killing you. Would that be okay? Don't let emotion cloud your thoughts, come to a serious conclusion on this serious question.

My serious conclusion is that I'm not a fetus implanted into a woman through rape.

If I were to be raped and ended up pregnant, I would do anything to get an abortion. There is nothing that would make me carry the child of someone that violates me and frankly I would go to any length to prevent my life from revolving around a child born of my sexual assault. Putting the kid up to foster isn't an option either because I do not consent to going through childbirth nor having a C-Section.

Look I hate saying this, but it's shit like this that makes me want to lean more towards the opinion of "if you don't have a vagina then you have no right to legislate abortion" (though that realistically isn't the best mindset to have).

And my opinion is "If you're born you don't have the right to curtail the right of the unborn."

You act as though I'm some sort of heartless monster for daring to hold the non-PC position, and because I am a male. Despite your significant overtones that I am somehow indifferent to the plight of the victim, I would bet money that I hate and despise rape and rapists more than you do. I know this because I understand that sex is not just some instrument of pleasure, but, in fact, the very physical expression of True Love, a concept which simply cannot be understood without serious knowledge of the Nature of God. This is why the Catholic Church reserves this unimaginably significant act for the eternal sacrament of Marriage, as to prevent some lustful snake from taking advantage of you, and cheating or leaving in evil cowardice. As much as I despise the actions of such a male, whom I will not honor with the title of "man", I despise a rapist infinitely more. It is the God-given duty of all men to ensure that women are not debauched in such a way, and to not only fail in this, but to assault a woman for the sole purpose of this evil, is the height of despicability, second, and barely second, only to murder. Know that this is not something I take lightly.

[Makdon]

And my opinion is "If you're born you don't have the right to curtail the right of the unborn."

You act as though I'm some sort of heartless monster for daring to hold the non-PC position, and because I am a male. Despite your significant overtones that I am somehow indifferent to the plight of the victim, I would bet money that I hate and despise rape and rapists more than you do. I know this because I understand that sex is not just some instrument of pleasure, but, in fact, the very physical expression of True Love, a concept which simply cannot be understood without serious knowledge of the Nature of God. This is why the Catholic Church reserves this unimaginably significant act for the eternal sacrament of Marriage, as to prevent some lustful snake from taking advantage of you, and cheating or leaving in evil cowardice. As much as I despise the actions of such a male, whom I will not honor with the title of "man", I despise a rapist infinitely more. It is the God-given duty of all men to ensure that women are not debauched in such a way, and to not only fail in this, but to assault a woman for the sole purpose of this evil, is the height of despicability, second, and barely second, only to murder. Know that this is not something I take lightly.

I don't think anyone is going to believe that you hate rape more than a women who has been personally affected by it, because you just love God so much and are so pure hearted. In fact, some might call it presumptuous

[Cantelo]

My serious conclusion is that I'm not a fetus implanted into a woman through rape.

If I were to be raped and ended up pregnant, I would do anything to get an abortion. There is nothing that would make me carry the child of someone that violates me and frankly I would go to any length to prevent my life from revolving around a child born of my sexual assault. Putting the kid up to foster isn't an option either because I do not consent to going through childbirth nor having a C-Section.

Look I hate saying this, but it's shit like this that makes me want to lean more towards the opinion of "if you don't have a vagina then you have no right to legislate abortion" (though that realistically isn't the best mindset to have).

And my opinion is "If you're born you don't have the right to curtail the right of the unborn."

You act as though I'm some sort of heartless monster for daring to hold the non-PC position, and because I am a male. Despite your significant overtones that I am somehow indifferent to the plight of the victim, I would bet money that I hate and despise rape and rapists more than you do. I know this because I understand that sex is not just some instrument of pleasure, but, in fact, the very physical expression of True Love, a concept which simply cannot be understood without serious knowledge of the Nature of God. This is why the Catholic Church reserves this unimaginably significant act for the eternal sacrament of Marriage, as to prevent some lustful snake from taking advantage of you, and cheating or leaving in evil cowardice. As much as I despise the actions of such a male, whom I will not honor with the title of "man", I despise a rapist infinitely more. It is the God-given duty of all men to ensure that women are not debauched in such a way, and to not only fail in this, but to assault a woman for the sole purpose of this evil, is the height of despicability, second, and barely second, only to murder. Know that this is not something I take lightly.

It's extremely difficult to believe you when on one hand you say you have sympathy for victims and hate rapists, yet on the other hand believe that a woman should be forced to carry and give birth to the result of the rape.

You are literally practicing doublethink and have shown to actually understand 0% of the trauma, regret, guilt, shame, and utter emotional void that is the result of a sexual assault. You claim to be sympathetic yet through your other beliefs you make that sympathy null and void; my opinion of you would be the same if you went ahead and told me that women who are raped get what they deserve because you are spouting the same exact sentiment just with the words of a snake.

Also, stop talking to me about God. For the last fucking time, I am not religious and trying to bring God into this so much just tells me that religion is the sole basis of your opinions and if you take that away then your argument no longer has any legs to stand on.

[Godular]

Even the Categorical Imperative can act as a basis for morality, by positing an objective standard by which to judge one's actions.

Both of these things are based upon subjective definition of "good." These aren't bases, these are simply more turtles in the "turtles all the way down." What makes life good, and death bad?

"Hello Mr. Kettle, it's Mr. Pot. I couldn't help notice that you seem a tad bit blacker than usual."

[Godular]

And my opinion is "If you're born you don't have the right to curtail the right of the unborn."

You act as though I'm some sort of heartless monster for daring to hold the non-PC position, and because I am a male. Despite your significant overtones that I am somehow indifferent to the plight of the victim, I would bet money that I hate and despise rape and rapists more than you do. I know this because I understand that sex is not just some instrument of pleasure, but, in fact, the very physical expression of True Love, a concept which simply cannot be understood without serious knowledge of the Nature of God. This is why the Catholic Church reserves this unimaginably significant act for the eternal sacrament of Marriage, as to prevent some lustful snake from taking advantage of you, and cheating or leaving in evil cowardice. As much as I despise the actions of such a male, whom I will not honor with the title of "man", I despise a rapist infinitely more. It is the God-given duty of all men to ensure that women are not debauched in such a way, and to not only fail in this, but to assault a woman for the sole purpose of this evil, is the height of despicability, second, and barely second, only to murder. Know that this is not something I take lightly.

It's extremely difficult to believe you when on one hand you say you have sympathy for victims and hate rapists, yet on the other hand believe that a woman should be forced to carry and give birth to the result of the rape.

You are literally practicing doublethink and have shown to actually understand 0% of the trauma, regret, guilt, shame, and utter emotional void that is the result of a sexual assault. You claim to be sympathetic yet through your other beliefs you make that sympathy null and void; my opinion of you would be the same if you went ahead and told me that women who are raped get what they deserve because you are spouting the same exact sentiment just with the words of a snake.

Also, stop talking to me about God. For the last fucking time, I am not religious and trying to bring God into this so much just tells me that religion is the sole basis of your opinions and if you take that away then your argument no longer has any legs to stand on.

Indeed. Seeing as the current status quo is pro-choice, the onus is on them to convince us to accept their position. Trying to use religion as a foundation is about as effective as pouring gasoline on a fire in order to put it out.