NATION

PASSWORD

[Abortion Thread] (YET ANOTHER POLL!) Taking measure.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

What policies would you use to reduce abortion numbers?

Welfare Support for Single Mothers
481
17%
Free Pregnancy-Related Health Care
494
17%
Comprehensive Sex Education
604
21%
Free Contraception
499
17%
Monetary Incentives (Child Care, Tax Incentives, Kid-Related Healthcare, specify if needed)
375
13%
No Changes
47
2%
Procedure Ban (Not outlawing abortion itself, but specific procedures)
89
3%
Outright Ban (With exceptions or without)
281
10%
 
Total votes : 2870

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32408
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:39 pm

The South Falls wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:If it involves another person, it should.

So the sovereignty of a non human goes over that of the mother?


>Non-human

Is it jackal?
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2555
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:40 pm

Godular wrote:Finally got home to my computer so I could think up a decent poll.

Before anybody says anything about that last option: Well, it IS unreasonable!

You're missing the stance of most pro-lifers, myself included--opposition to abortion only in cases where the mother's health is in danger.

Hopefully I'll be more active here.

User avatar
Godular
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10603
Founded: Sep 09, 2004
New York Times Democracy

Postby Godular » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:40 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
Godular wrote:Finally got home to my computer so I could think up a decent poll.

Before anybody says anything about that last option: Well, it IS unreasonable!

You're missing the stance of most pro-lifers, myself included--opposition to abortion only in cases where the mother's health is in danger.

Hopefully I'll be more active here.


'Medical Complications'
RL position
Active RP: ASCENSION
Active RP: SHENRYAX
Dormant RP: Throne of the Fallen Empire

Faction 1: The An'Kazar Control Framework of Godular-- An enormously advanced collective of formerly human bioborgs that are vastly experienced in both inter-dimensional travel and asymmetrical warfare.
A 1.08 civilization, according to this Nation Index Thingie
I don't normally use NS stats. But when I do, I prefer Dos Eckis I can STILL kill you.
Post responsibly.

User avatar
Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio
Diplomat
 
Posts: 822
Founded: Apr 14, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:41 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
Godular wrote:Finally got home to my computer so I could think up a decent poll.

Before anybody says anything about that last option: Well, it IS unreasonable!

You're missing the stance of most pro-lifers, myself included--opposition to abortion only in cases where the mother's health is in danger.

Hopefully I'll be more active here.

Only or excluding?
❤Pro: Immigration, gun control, demilitarization, internationalism, socialism, direct democracy, disestablishmentarianism, feminism, open boarders, unity, peace, pacifism, vegetarianism, and lbgt+
Anti: Unfair wages/capitalism, war, military, violence, hate, ignorance, weapons, racism, imperialism, patriotism, nationalism, fascism, nativism, violent protest, ANTIFA, USA, and sexism
Collectivism score: 100
Authoritarianism score: 50
Internationalism score: 33
Tribalism score: -100
Liberalism score: 83
I apologize for all the hate and violence that has been caused and will be caused by humanity.
More detailed flag and Seal
[☮] and [_✯_] ☭
Kune ni sukcesos egale
Together we prosper equally

Вместе мы процветать в равной степени

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2555
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:41 pm

Godular wrote:
United Massachusetts wrote:You're missing the stance of most pro-lifers, myself included--opposition to abortion only in cases where the mother's health is in danger.

Hopefully I'll be more active here.


'Medical Complications'

That should be more specific.

User avatar
Godular
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10603
Founded: Sep 09, 2004
New York Times Democracy

Postby Godular » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:43 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
Godular wrote:
'Medical Complications'

That should be more specific.


I think it's pretty clear cut. If you wish to specify an order of magnitude you can do so in a post.
RL position
Active RP: ASCENSION
Active RP: SHENRYAX
Dormant RP: Throne of the Fallen Empire

Faction 1: The An'Kazar Control Framework of Godular-- An enormously advanced collective of formerly human bioborgs that are vastly experienced in both inter-dimensional travel and asymmetrical warfare.
A 1.08 civilization, according to this Nation Index Thingie
I don't normally use NS stats. But when I do, I prefer Dos Eckis I can STILL kill you.
Post responsibly.

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2555
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:43 pm

Telconi wrote:
The South Falls wrote:So the sovereignty of a non human goes over that of the mother?


>Non-human

Is it jackal?

It has human genetics, and in many cases, human features.

A fetus is in every medical sense of the phrase a living organism. That cannot be denied. I think human genetics lend us to assume it is human. The question, therefore, is when it is OK to kill a living, human organism?

User avatar
The South Falls
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13341
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The South Falls » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:44 pm

Telconi wrote:
The South Falls wrote:So the sovereignty of a non human goes over that of the mother?


>Non-human

Is it jackal?

When it is born, it is human.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

Economic: -5.5
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51
I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that.

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2555
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:44 pm

Godular wrote:
United Massachusetts wrote:That should be more specific.


I think it's pretty clear cut. If you wish to specify an order of magnitude you can do so in a post.

It doesn't specify what degree of complication or on who's end. For instance, a complication that could risk the life of the child is not a valid reason for abortion.

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26912
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:45 pm

Apparently, a fifteen-year-old Indonesian girl was recently jailed after aborting a baby that was the product of incest and rape at the hands of her brother. Thoughts on this?

Personally, it's some fucked up shit. Abortion should genuinely be a human right that women have because women have numerous, legitimate reasons to get an abortion; it shouldn't be denied to them because of religious beliefs or what-have-you. Sure as shit there'll be people that abuse the system, but all in all, it should be elective (at least, until viability).
Communist now and forever.
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - [b]Buenaventura Durruti

"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio
Diplomat
 
Posts: 822
Founded: Apr 14, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:46 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
Telconi wrote:
>Non-human

Is it jackal?

It has human genetics, and in many cases, human features.

A fetus is in every medical sense of the phrase a living organism. That cannot be denied. I think human genetics lend us to assume it is human. The question, therefore, is when it is OK to kill a living, human organism?

Not in war.
Not as punishment/revenge.
Not because someone tripped onto your yard from the sidewalk.
None of those are certain threats. Medically required is more certain than being robbed.
❤Pro: Immigration, gun control, demilitarization, internationalism, socialism, direct democracy, disestablishmentarianism, feminism, open boarders, unity, peace, pacifism, vegetarianism, and lbgt+
Anti: Unfair wages/capitalism, war, military, violence, hate, ignorance, weapons, racism, imperialism, patriotism, nationalism, fascism, nativism, violent protest, ANTIFA, USA, and sexism
Collectivism score: 100
Authoritarianism score: 50
Internationalism score: 33
Tribalism score: -100
Liberalism score: 83
I apologize for all the hate and violence that has been caused and will be caused by humanity.
More detailed flag and Seal
[☮] and [_✯_] ☭
Kune ni sukcesos egale
Together we prosper equally

Вместе мы процветать в равной степени

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2555
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:46 pm

The South Falls wrote:
Telconi wrote:
>Non-human

Is it jackal?

When it is born, it is human.

Why? Is there any developmental difference between a fetus at eight/nine months and an infant? If you're going to argue for abortion, at least try to argue that the right to bodily sovereignty entails the right to abortion (a questionable and false argument for other reasons). Don't draw arbitrary lines of human-ness. That's literally ableism.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32408
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:46 pm

The South Falls wrote:
Telconi wrote:
>Non-human

Is it jackal?

When it is born, it is human.


What is it before?
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio
Diplomat
 
Posts: 822
Founded: Apr 14, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:47 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
Godular wrote:
I think it's pretty clear cut. If you wish to specify an order of magnitude you can do so in a post.

It doesn't specify what degree of complication or on who's end. For instance, a complication that could risk the life of the child is not a valid reason for abortion.

That is another option, however.
❤Pro: Immigration, gun control, demilitarization, internationalism, socialism, direct democracy, disestablishmentarianism, feminism, open boarders, unity, peace, pacifism, vegetarianism, and lbgt+
Anti: Unfair wages/capitalism, war, military, violence, hate, ignorance, weapons, racism, imperialism, patriotism, nationalism, fascism, nativism, violent protest, ANTIFA, USA, and sexism
Collectivism score: 100
Authoritarianism score: 50
Internationalism score: 33
Tribalism score: -100
Liberalism score: 83
I apologize for all the hate and violence that has been caused and will be caused by humanity.
More detailed flag and Seal
[☮] and [_✯_] ☭
Kune ni sukcesos egale
Together we prosper equally

Вместе мы процветать в равной степени

User avatar
Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio
Diplomat
 
Posts: 822
Founded: Apr 14, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:47 pm

Telconi wrote:
The South Falls wrote:When it is born, it is human.


What is it before?

A parasitic human fetus/embryo.
❤Pro: Immigration, gun control, demilitarization, internationalism, socialism, direct democracy, disestablishmentarianism, feminism, open boarders, unity, peace, pacifism, vegetarianism, and lbgt+
Anti: Unfair wages/capitalism, war, military, violence, hate, ignorance, weapons, racism, imperialism, patriotism, nationalism, fascism, nativism, violent protest, ANTIFA, USA, and sexism
Collectivism score: 100
Authoritarianism score: 50
Internationalism score: 33
Tribalism score: -100
Liberalism score: 83
I apologize for all the hate and violence that has been caused and will be caused by humanity.
More detailed flag and Seal
[☮] and [_✯_] ☭
Kune ni sukcesos egale
Together we prosper equally

Вместе мы процветать в равной степени

User avatar
Godular
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10603
Founded: Sep 09, 2004
New York Times Democracy

Postby Godular » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:47 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
Godular wrote:
I think it's pretty clear cut. If you wish to specify an order of magnitude you can do so in a post.

It doesn't specify what degree of complication or on who's end. For instance, a complication that could risk the life of the child is not a valid reason for abortion.


See, at that point you're being obtuse picky (used the wrong word). I have a separate option for fetal abnormality, and invite posters to specify if they feel it necessary to do so. Polls have a maximum of 10 options, and I worked to cover every base I could think of.
Last edited by Godular on Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RL position
Active RP: ASCENSION
Active RP: SHENRYAX
Dormant RP: Throne of the Fallen Empire

Faction 1: The An'Kazar Control Framework of Godular-- An enormously advanced collective of formerly human bioborgs that are vastly experienced in both inter-dimensional travel and asymmetrical warfare.
A 1.08 civilization, according to this Nation Index Thingie
I don't normally use NS stats. But when I do, I prefer Dos Eckis I can STILL kill you.
Post responsibly.

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2555
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:48 pm

Torrocca wrote:Apparently, a fifteen-year-old Indonesian girl was recently jailed after aborting a baby that was the product of incest and rape at the hands of her brother. Thoughts on this?

Personally, it's some fucked up shit. Abortion should genuinely be a human right that women have because women have numerous, legitimate reasons to get an abortion; it shouldn't be denied to them because of religious beliefs or what-have-you. Sure as shit there'll be people that abuse the system, but all in all, it should be elective (at least, until viability).

Women should not be punished for abortion. Doctors should.

Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio wrote:
United Massachusetts wrote:It has human genetics, and in many cases, human features.

A fetus is in every medical sense of the phrase a living organism. That cannot be denied. I think human genetics lend us to assume it is human. The question, therefore, is when it is OK to kill a living, human organism?

Not in war.
Not as punishment/revenge.
Not because someone tripped onto your yard from the sidewalk.
None of those are certain threats. Medically required is more certain than being robbed.

Would one be justified in killing a person that they welcomed onto a property just because they wanted to?

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32408
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:48 pm

Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio wrote:
Telconi wrote:
What is it before?

A parasitic human fetus/embryo.



Huh...
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26912
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:49 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
Torrocca wrote:Apparently, a fifteen-year-old Indonesian girl was recently jailed after aborting a baby that was the product of incest and rape at the hands of her brother. Thoughts on this?

Personally, it's some fucked up shit. Abortion should genuinely be a human right that women have because women have numerous, legitimate reasons to get an abortion; it shouldn't be denied to them because of religious beliefs or what-have-you. Sure as shit there'll be people that abuse the system, but all in all, it should be elective (at least, until viability).

Women should not be punished for abortion. Doctors should.


No one should be punished for abortions, bar illegal ones past the point of viability in the fetus' development.[/quote]
Communist now and forever.
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - [b]Buenaventura Durruti

"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32408
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:50 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
Torrocca wrote:Apparently, a fifteen-year-old Indonesian girl was recently jailed after aborting a baby that was the product of incest and rape at the hands of her brother. Thoughts on this?

Personally, it's some fucked up shit. Abortion should genuinely be a human right that women have because women have numerous, legitimate reasons to get an abortion; it shouldn't be denied to them because of religious beliefs or what-have-you. Sure as shit there'll be people that abuse the system, but all in all, it should be elective (at least, until viability).

Women should not be punished for abortion. Doctors should.

Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio wrote:Not in war.
Not as punishment/revenge.
Not because someone tripped onto your yard from the sidewalk.
None of those are certain threats. Medically required is more certain than being robbed.

Would one be justified in killing a person that they welcomed onto a property just because they wanted to?



Eh, the no punishment for women is silly, we punish people who hire hit men, despite not having actually physically harmed anyone.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio
Diplomat
 
Posts: 822
Founded: Apr 14, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:50 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
Torrocca wrote:Apparently, a fifteen-year-old Indonesian girl was recently jailed after aborting a baby that was the product of incest and rape at the hands of her brother. Thoughts on this?

Personally, it's some fucked up shit. Abortion should genuinely be a human right that women have because women have numerous, legitimate reasons to get an abortion; it shouldn't be denied to them because of religious beliefs or what-have-you. Sure as shit there'll be people that abuse the system, but all in all, it should be elective (at least, until viability).

Women should not be punished for abortion. Doctors should.

Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio wrote:Not in war.
Not as punishment/revenge.
Not because someone tripped onto your yard from the sidewalk.
None of those are certain threats. Medically required is more certain than being robbed.

Would one be justified in killing a person that they welcomed onto a property just because they wanted to?

Never. (However, I use a definition of person that does not include all humans, and humans does not include all people).
But if someone invited two people and one of them turned one of the other two into a life support for the third (making the third parasitic and life threatening), then the third could be morally removed. If they can be saved, okay.
Last edited by Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio on Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
❤Pro: Immigration, gun control, demilitarization, internationalism, socialism, direct democracy, disestablishmentarianism, feminism, open boarders, unity, peace, pacifism, vegetarianism, and lbgt+
Anti: Unfair wages/capitalism, war, military, violence, hate, ignorance, weapons, racism, imperialism, patriotism, nationalism, fascism, nativism, violent protest, ANTIFA, USA, and sexism
Collectivism score: 100
Authoritarianism score: 50
Internationalism score: 33
Tribalism score: -100
Liberalism score: 83
I apologize for all the hate and violence that has been caused and will be caused by humanity.
More detailed flag and Seal
[☮] and [_✯_] ☭
Kune ni sukcesos egale
Together we prosper equally

Вместе мы процветать в равной степени

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 32408
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:51 pm

Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio wrote:
United Massachusetts wrote:Women should not be punished for abortion. Doctors should.


Would one be justified in killing a person that they welcomed onto a property just because they wanted to?

Never. (However, I use a definition of person that does not include all humans, and humans does not include all people).



Wait, so there are non-human people?
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2555
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:51 pm

Godular wrote:
United Massachusetts wrote:It doesn't specify what degree of complication or on who's end. For instance, a complication that could risk the life of the child is not a valid reason for abortion.


See, at that point you're being obtuse. I have a separate option for fetal abnormality, and invite posters to specify if they feel it necessary to do so. Polls have a maximum of 10 options, and I worked to cover every base I could think of.

I'll live, but you're shoving a lot of people into an option that you stigmatise, even though they don't agree with it. It seems as if you think that anyone who doesn't support abortion in cases of rape (a stance that some pro-lifers hold), for instance, is just a horrible human being. And you're reflecting that in the poll. At least try to have a fair OP.

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2555
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Massachusetts » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:54 pm

Telconi wrote:
Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio wrote:Never. (However, I use a definition of person that does not include all humans, and humans does not include all people).



Wait, so there are non-human people?

That's worked so well in history.
Telconi wrote:
United Massachusetts wrote:Women should not be punished for abortion. Doctors should.


Would one be justified in killing a person that they welcomed onto a property just because they wanted to?



Eh, the no punishment for women is silly, we punish people who hire hit men, despite not having actually physically harmed anyone.

It's the same approach we should (but don't) take for drug-related offenses; don't punish the users, punish the dealers.
Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio wrote:
United Massachusetts wrote:Women should not be punished for abortion. Doctors should.


Would one be justified in killing a person that they welcomed onto a property just because they wanted to?

Never. (However, I use a definition of person that does not include all humans, and humans does not include all people).

Some humans aren't people, then?

User avatar
Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio
Diplomat
 
Posts: 822
Founded: Apr 14, 2016
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:54 pm

Telconi wrote:
Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio wrote:Never. (However, I use a definition of person that does not include all humans, and humans does not include all people).



Wait, so there are non-human people?

I consider Kanzi and most great apes and dogs and hypothetical AI's to have more of a claim to being people than someone who is braindead.
Basically, if it has a mediumly to highly functioning brain, I consider it a person.
Last edited by Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio on Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
❤Pro: Immigration, gun control, demilitarization, internationalism, socialism, direct democracy, disestablishmentarianism, feminism, open boarders, unity, peace, pacifism, vegetarianism, and lbgt+
Anti: Unfair wages/capitalism, war, military, violence, hate, ignorance, weapons, racism, imperialism, patriotism, nationalism, fascism, nativism, violent protest, ANTIFA, USA, and sexism
Collectivism score: 100
Authoritarianism score: 50
Internationalism score: 33
Tribalism score: -100
Liberalism score: 83
I apologize for all the hate and violence that has been caused and will be caused by humanity.
More detailed flag and Seal
[☮] and [_✯_] ☭
Kune ni sukcesos egale
Together we prosper equally

Вместе мы процветать в равной степени

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Anatoliyanskiy, Ansarre, Baltenstein, Mallorea and Riva, Neuer Deutsches Reich, Nimzonia, Nobel Hobos 2, Novos Romanos, The Reformed American Republic, VVerkia, Yereha

Advertisement

Remove ads