[Abortion Thread] (YET ANOTHER POLL!) Taking measure.

[Galloism]

"If you have that sterilisation procedure, you may later wish you hadn't had it done" is no reason to force people to not have that procedure.

We do this too.

[Akrisen]

Fetuses are not human or self aware so people rationalize killing them because its the same as killing a jellyfish. We were once as simple mentally as them yet our moms decided to let us exist onwards.

Ah, the good old "What if you were aborted!" argument.

If my mother decided to abort me, I wouldn't care because I wouldn't, at the time of the abortion, be capable of caring.

I agree. What if the fetus was you? What if you don't exist right now because you were aborted?

I still wouldn't support the banning of abortion (ignoring the fact that I would be incapable of doing so). I'm not gonna restrict someone's rights because their use of their rights harms me either directly or indirectly.

Thats a cute response yet the fact you refuse to kill yourself shows you prefer existence overall therefore should not support abortion hypocrite.

[Grenartia]

"If you have that sterilisation procedure, you may later wish you hadn't had it done" is no reason to force people to not have that procedure.

We do this too.

Nobody said we didn't.

[Grenartia]

Ah, the good old "What if you were aborted!" argument.

If my mother decided to abort me, I wouldn't care because I wouldn't, at the time of the abortion, be capable of caring.



I still wouldn't support the banning of abortion (ignoring the fact that I would be incapable of doing so). I'm not gonna restrict someone's rights because their use of their rights harms me either directly or indirectly.

Thats a cute response yet the fact you refuse to kill yourself shows you prefer existence overall therefore should not support abortion hypocrite.

I have cancer now. With internet carcinogens like this floating around, any suffering a fetus hypothetically feels would pale in comparison to the mass death of all of its brain cells after reading that.

[Akrisen]

Thats a cute response yet the fact you refuse to kill yourself shows you prefer existence overall therefore should not support abortion hypocrite.

I have cancer now. With internet carcinogens like this floating around, any suffering a fetus hypothetically feels would pale in comparison to the mass death of all of its brain cells after reading that.

Irrelevant if you think existence is good then you should not support abortion its that simple. If you are a suicidal nihilist then you should support abortion because you dont find existence valuable. The guy made the claim he wouldnt care about ceasing to exist yet will not kill hisself which would prove the claim correct that he doesnt care about ceasing to exist.

[Estanglia]

Ah, the good old "What if you were aborted!" argument.

If my mother decided to abort me, I wouldn't care because I wouldn't, at the time of the abortion, be capable of caring.



I still wouldn't support the banning of abortion (ignoring the fact that I would be incapable of doing so). I'm not gonna restrict someone's rights because their use of their rights harms me either directly or indirectly.

Thats a cute response yet the fact you refuse to kill yourself shows you prefer existence overall therefore should not support abortion hypocrite.

...What?

That makes no sense.

[The Grims]

Ah, the good old "What if you were aborted!" argument.

If my mother decided to abort me, I wouldn't care because I wouldn't, at the time of the abortion, be capable of caring.



I still wouldn't support the banning of abortion (ignoring the fact that I would be incapable of doing so). I'm not gonna restrict someone's rights because their use of their rights harms me either directly or indirectly.

Thats a cute response yet the fact you refuse to kill yourself shows you prefer existence overall therefore should not support abortion hypocrite.

By that logic your sister is a murderer for refusing to be impregnated by you. That after all prevents the existence of your son.

[The Free Joy State]

I have cancer now. With internet carcinogens like this floating around, any suffering a fetus hypothetically feels would pale in comparison to the mass death of all of its brain cells after reading that.

Irrelevant if you think existence is good then you should not support abortion its that simple. If you are a suicidal nihilist then you should support abortion because you dont find existence valuable. The guy made the claim he wouldnt care about ceasing to exist yet will not kill hisself which would prove the claim correct that he doesnt care about ceasing to exist.

If someone has never had any consciousness, it is an unemotive fact (unlike the trite "your mother never aborted you" nonsense argument) to state that you would have been unaware of it, had your mother aborted you.

If there is no awareness at any stage, one cannot have any thoughts on the subject and thus cannot care.

Once someone has consciousness, they have thoughts and can care. Caring extends to wanting to live.

It is not hypocrisy for a sentient person to want to live and to be in favour of the sentient mother's right to abort the insentient foetus.

Telling people who are pro-choice that they should wish to die for the stating fact that -- had they been aborted as insentient foetuses -- they wouldn't know is like comparing the Hadron collider and apples.

[Astrellan]

Ah, the good old "What if you were aborted!" argument.

If my mother decided to abort me, I wouldn't care because I wouldn't, at the time of the abortion, be capable of caring.



I still wouldn't support the banning of abortion (ignoring the fact that I would be incapable of doing so). I'm not gonna restrict someone's rights because their use of their rights harms me either directly or indirectly.

Thats a cute response yet the fact you refuse to kill yourself shows you prefer existence overall therefore should not support abortion hypocrite.

Damnit they got us there. We have to commit suicide now to prove him wrong and gain the moral high ground so we can push our argument forward to people across the world.

Wait... damn sneaky pro-lifers.

[Gormwood]

Thats a cute response yet the fact you refuse to kill yourself shows you prefer existence overall therefore should not support abortion hypocrite.

By that logic your sister is a murderer for refusing to be impregnated by you. That after all prevents the existence of your son.

Son/Brother.

"And now time for Family Planning With The Lannisters..."

[The Free Joy State]

Thats a cute response yet the fact you refuse to kill yourself shows you prefer existence overall therefore should not support abortion hypocrite.

By that logic your sister is a murderer for refusing to be impregnated by you. That after all prevents the existence of your son.

Extend the same logic to its zenith: every woman who ever menstruated is a murderer: she could have gotten pregnant and she didn't.

All those potential lives thrown out on sanitary protection...

[The Grims]

By that logic your sister is a murderer for refusing to be impregnated by you. That after all prevents the existence of your son.

Extend the same logic to its zenith: every woman who ever menstruated is a murderer: she could have gotten pregnant and she didn't.

All those potential lives thrown out on sanitary protection...

And then the next step: not only his sister, mother, aunt and so on - but he himself as well. For refusing to impregnate them.

The murderer.

[Estanglia]

By that logic your sister is a murderer for refusing to be impregnated by you. That after all prevents the existence of your son.

Extend the same logic to its zenith: every woman who ever menstruated is a murderer: she could have gotten pregnant and she didn't.

All those potential lives thrown out on sanitary protection...

Don't forget all those times someone used contraceptives during sex.

All those potential lives lost. The shame.

[Akrisen]

By that logic your sister is a murderer for refusing to be impregnated by you. That after all prevents the existence of your son.

Extend the same logic to its zenith: every woman who ever menstruated is a murderer: she could have gotten pregnant and she didn't.

All those potential lives thrown out on sanitary protection...

Thats silly, ovum are not human beings so its not murder.

[The Grims]

Extend the same logic to its zenith: every woman who ever menstruated is a murderer: she could have gotten pregnant and she didn't.

All those potential lives thrown out on sanitary protection...

Thats silly, ovum are not human beings so its not murder.

They could have been human beings. You chose to not make that happen.

[The Free Joy State]

Extend the same logic to its zenith: every woman who ever menstruated is a murderer: she could have gotten pregnant and she didn't.

All those potential lives thrown out on sanitary protection...

Thats silly, ovum are not human beings so its not murder.

Foetuses are not human beings. They're human, but they won't be a human being until they're born (a human being is different to being human):

Here's a definition:

noun
A man, woman, or child of the species Homo sapiens, distinguished from other animals by superior mental development, power of articulate speech, and upright stance.

Another definition:

the words “person”, “human being”, “child”, and “individual”, shall include every infant member of the species homo sapiens who is born alive at any stage of development.

[Akrisen]

Thats silly, ovum are not human beings so its not murder.

They could have been human beings. You chose to not make that happen.

As I said pages ago a human is the fusion of a sperm and an egg cell so the individual cells are not human beings at all. Masturbation is not genocide and neither is menstruation.

Foetuses are not human beings

Yes they are human genetically which is the only objective meaning, say the word sapient to make your case instead of human its too vague.

[The Free Joy State]

They could have been human beings. You chose to not make that happen.

As I said pages ago a human is the fusion of a sperm and an egg cell so the individual cells are not human beings at all. Masturbation is not genocide and neither is menstruation.

Foetuses are not human beings

Yes they are human genetically which is the only objective meaning, say the word sapient to make your case instead of human its too vague.

Do not crop quotes in this manner, with no attribution and proceeding to rebut a point that nobody made. I sourced two links (Cornell Law and the Oxford English Dictionary) to demonstrate why foetuses do not qualify as "human beings", and it is bad form to crop selectively like this.

Here is the whole thing again:

Thats silly, ovum are not human beings so its not murder.

Foetuses are not human beings. They're human, but they won't be a human being until they're born (a human being is different to being human):

Here's a definition:

noun
A man, woman, or child of the species Homo sapiens, distinguished from other animals by superior mental development, power of articulate speech, and upright stance.

Another definition:

the words “person”, “human being”, “child”, and “individual”, shall include every infant member of the species homo sapiens who is born alive at any stage of development.

Foetuses are not human beings because -- while they are members of the species homo sapiens -- they have not been born alive yet.

You ignoring legal fact and saying "yes they are" will not make it so.

[Akrisen]

As I said pages ago a human is the fusion of a sperm and an egg cell so the individual cells are not human beings at all. Masturbation is not genocide and neither is menstruation.



Yes they are human genetically which is the only objective meaning, say the word sapient to make your case instead of human its too vague.

Do not crop quotes in this manner, with no attribution and proceeding to rebut a point that nobody made. I sourced two links (Cornell Law and the Oxford English Dictionary) to demonstrate why foetuses do not qualify as "human beings", and it is bad form to crop selectively like this.

Here is the whole thing again:

Foetuses are not human beings. They're human, but they won't be a human being until they're born (a human being is different to being human):

Here's a definition:

noun
A man, woman, or child of the species Homo sapiens, distinguished from other animals by superior mental development, power of articulate speech, and upright stance.

Another definition:

the words “person”, “human being”, “child”, and “individual”, shall include every infant member of the species homo sapiens who is born alive at any stage of development.

Foetuses are not human beings because -- while they are members of the species homo sapiens -- they have not been born alive yet.

You ignoring legal fact and saying "yes they are" will not make it so.

The only definition of human is the biological one so foetus are human.

[The Free Joy State]

Do not crop quotes in this manner, with no attribution and proceeding to rebut a point that nobody made. I sourced two links (Cornell Law and the Oxford English Dictionary) to demonstrate why foetuses do not qualify as "human beings", and it is bad form to crop selectively like this.

Here is the whole thing again:



Foetuses are not human beings because -- while they are members of the species homo sapiens -- they have not been born alive yet.

You ignoring legal fact and saying "yes they are" will not make it so.

The only definition of human is the biological one so foetus are human.

No-one argued against a foetus being "human"; a foetus is, indeed, of the species homo sapiens.

You appear to be arguing against a point that no-one made.

A foetus is not a "human being", however. "Human being" has a very defined meaning -- as the definitions show; a foetus does not meet the definition. It is not a man, woman or child (which includes infants) that has been born alive at any stage of development.

[Akrisen]

The only definition of human is the biological one so foetus are human.

No-one argued against a foetus being "human"; a foetus is, indeed, of the species homo sapiens.

You appear to be arguing against a point that no-one made.

A foetus is not a "human being", however. "Human being" has a very defined meaning -- as the definitions show; a foetus does not meet the definition. It is not a man, woman or child (which includes infants) that has been born alive at any stage of development.

Foetuses have chromosomes thus can be a man or woman, foetus have hearts so of course they are alive just not sapient.

[San Lumen]

No-one argued against a foetus being "human"; a foetus is, indeed, of the species homo sapiens.

You appear to be arguing against a point that no-one made.

A foetus is not a "human being", however. "Human being" has a very defined meaning -- as the definitions show; a foetus does not meet the definition. It is not a man, woman or child (which includes infants) that has been born alive at any stage of development.

Foetuses have chromosomes thus can be a man or woman, foetus have hearts so of course they are alive just not sapient.

If a fetus is a person then it is using a rape or incest victims body without their consent.

There is no evidence of fetuses being sentient until late stage pregnancy.

Why should a women be forced to carry to term a child she does not want?

[The Free Joy State]

No-one argued against a foetus being "human"; a foetus is, indeed, of the species homo sapiens.

You appear to be arguing against a point that no-one made.

A foetus is not a "human being", however. "Human being" has a very defined meaning -- as the definitions show; a foetus does not meet the definition. It is not a man, woman or child (which includes infants) that has been born alive at any stage of development.

Foetuses have chromosomes thus can be a man or woman, foetus have hearts so of course they are alive just not sapient.

Again, where was the argument made that they are not alive? Kindly stop responding to arguments that no-one made.

A man is an adult male.

A woman is an adult female.

Words have meanings, and not the ones you make up for yourself.

[Akrisen]

Foetuses have chromosomes thus can be a man or woman, foetus have hearts so of course they are alive just not sapient.

If a fetus is a person then it is using a rape or incest victims body without their consent.

There is no evidence of fetuses being sentient until late stage pregnancy.

Why should a women be forced to carry to term a child she does not want?

They are potential humans thats all that matters, if you refuse to commit suicide that means you value living over not living so shouldnt do the same to other humans like foetuses for example.

[San Lumen]

If a fetus is a person then it is using a rape or incest victims body without their consent.

There is no evidence of fetuses being sentient until late stage pregnancy.

Why should a women be forced to carry to term a child she does not want?

They are potential humans thats all that matters, if you refuse to commit suicide that means you value living over not living so shouldnt do the same to other humans like foetuses for example.

You didnt answer any of my points.

who are you to force a rape victim to carry to term a child they dont want?

If there is no right to bodily autonomy why not have mandatory blood donations?