NATION

PASSWORD

[Abortion Thread] (YET ANOTHER POLL!) Taking measure.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

What policies would you use to reduce abortion numbers?

Welfare Support for Single Mothers
387
17%
Free Pregnancy-Related Health Care
394
17%
Comprehensive Sex Education
479
21%
Free Contraception
396
17%
Monetary Incentives (Child Care, Tax Incentives, Kid-Related Healthcare, specify if needed)
305
13%
No Changes
37
2%
Procedure Ban (Not outlawing abortion itself, but specific procedures)
73
3%
Outright Ban (With exceptions or without)
224
10%
 
Total votes : 2295

User avatar
Woodfiredpizzas
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 369
Founded: Jan 15, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Woodfiredpizzas » Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:06 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Why should a fetus get special rights no one else has?

Does anyone else have the right to kill you or me? Does anyone else have the right to plunge scalpels into our heads or poison us?


You try and enslave my person just so you can live and by golly gosh am I going to defend myself upto and including killing you.
Reheated donuts

User avatar
Internationalist Bastard
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24350
Founded: Aug 09, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:15 pm

Woodfiredpizzas wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Does anyone else have the right to kill you or me? Does anyone else have the right to plunge scalpels into our heads or poison us?


You try and enslave my person just so you can live and by golly gosh am I going to defend myself upto and including killing you.

Pretty much this
Even if it is killing someone it’s justified
Call me Alex, I insist
I am a girl, damnit
Slut Pride. So like, real talk, I’m a porn actress. We’re not all bimbos. I do not give out my information or videos to avoid conflict with site policy. I’m happy to talk about the industry or my thoughts on the career but I will not be showing you any goodies. Sorry
“Whatever you are, be a good one” Abe Lincoln

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63291
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Genivaria » Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:28 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Why should a fetus get special rights no one else has?

Does anyone else have the right to kill you or me? Does anyone else have the right to plunge scalpels into our heads or poison us?

Can I have your kidney?
General Sherman did nothing wrong, fact.
Liberal Social Democrat.

Proud denouncer of the Taliban.

User avatar
Internationalist Bastard
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24350
Founded: Aug 09, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:33 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Does anyone else have the right to kill you or me? Does anyone else have the right to plunge scalpels into our heads or poison us?

Can I have your kidney?

I mean if you want I’m not using mine
Call me Alex, I insist
I am a girl, damnit
Slut Pride. So like, real talk, I’m a porn actress. We’re not all bimbos. I do not give out my information or videos to avoid conflict with site policy. I’m happy to talk about the industry or my thoughts on the career but I will not be showing you any goodies. Sorry
“Whatever you are, be a good one” Abe Lincoln

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63291
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Genivaria » Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:13 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Can I have your kidney?

I mean if you want I’m not using mine

You giving consent kinda deflates my point. :p
General Sherman did nothing wrong, fact.
Liberal Social Democrat.

Proud denouncer of the Taliban.

User avatar
The Caleshan Valkyrie
Diplomat
 
Posts: 689
Founded: Oct 07, 2004
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Caleshan Valkyrie » Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:21 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:I mean if you want I’m not using mine

You giving consent kinda deflates my point. :p


Then the proper request woulda been: “I’m taking your kidney right meow. I need it for my collection!”
Godulan Puppet #2, RPing as technologically advanced tribal society combined between several groups of ancient arabs and mongols with vikings.

Current Intro RP: Gravity Ships and Garden Snips

User avatar
Republic of Turbin
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 149
Founded: Mar 16, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Republic of Turbin » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:10 am

Hello NSG, So basically I want to ask you guys a question so on friday my school will be hosting a state senator to talk about Reproductive Health Act. We are gonna be asking questions to the state senator is there any questions you guys wanna ask him?

(Context: our history teacher gave us an assignment to write on the RHA bill in New York, which basically evolved into this.)

User avatar
Jebslund
Minister
 
Posts: 2544
Founded: Sep 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Jebslund » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:29 am

Republic of Turbin wrote:Hello NSG, So basically I want to ask you guys a question so on friday my school will be hosting a state senator to talk about Reproductive Health Act. We are gonna be asking questions to the state senator is there any questions you guys wanna ask him?

(Context: our history teacher gave us an assignment to write on the RHA bill in New York, which basically evolved into this.)

You realise asking for homework help is against the rules, right? Also, this thread is for discussing abortion, not for generating questions for you to ask a senator.
Jebslund is a nation of kerbals ruled by Emperor Jebediah Kerman. We reject tyranny, believing that rights should be protected, though we also believe said rights end where the rights of others begin.
Shockingly, we *do* use NS stats, with the exception of lifespan.
Singular sapient: Jebslunder
Plural Sapient: Jebslunden
Singular/Plural nonsapient: Kermanic
Note: When a verb can logically only be done by the sapient using/piloting/holding the object in question, then the appropriate demonym for the number of sapients is used.

Capitalism, Socialism, and Communism are ECONOMIC SYSTEMS. Stop conflating them with political systems.

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31202
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:30 am

Woodfiredpizzas wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Does anyone else have the right to kill you or me? Does anyone else have the right to plunge scalpels into our heads or poison us?


You try and enslave my person just so you can live and by golly gosh am I going to defend myself upto and including killing you.


What on earth are you talking about?

User avatar
Republic of Turbin
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 149
Founded: Mar 16, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Republic of Turbin » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:37 am

Jebslund wrote:
Republic of Turbin wrote:Hello NSG, So basically I want to ask you guys a question so on friday my school will be hosting a state senator to talk about Reproductive Health Act. We are gonna be asking questions to the state senator is there any questions you guys wanna ask him?

(Context: our history teacher gave us an assignment to write on the RHA bill in New York, which basically evolved into this.)

You realise asking for homework help is against the rules, right? Also, this thread is for discussing abortion, not for generating questions for you to ask a senator.

1. The question is not a grade I was interested to see what questions people are asking from nsg.
2.This topic does correlate with the topic seeing as we are asking questions to the senator concerning the Reproductive Health Act.
3. I wanted to ask the question not for myself but to hear the thoughts of the nsg.

User avatar
Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 101262
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Farnhamia » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:40 am

Republic of Turbin wrote:
Jebslund wrote:You realise asking for homework help is against the rules, right? Also, this thread is for discussing abortion, not for generating questions for you to ask a senator.

1. The question is not a grade I was interested to see what questions people are asking from nsg.
2.This topic does correlate with the topic seeing as we are asking questions to the senator concerning the Reproductive Health Act.
3. I wanted to ask the question not for myself but to hear the thoughts of the nsg.

Here: https://www.afj.org/wp-content/uploads/ ... stions.pdf
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo

User avatar
Northern Davincia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12762
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Davincia » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:48 am

Internationalist Bastard wrote:
Woodfiredpizzas wrote:
You try and enslave my person just so you can live and by golly gosh am I going to defend myself upto and including killing you.

Pretty much this
Even if it is killing someone it’s justified

Except it's not in this circumstance.
Woodfiredpizzas wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Does anyone else have the right to kill you or me? Does anyone else have the right to plunge scalpels into our heads or poison us?


You try and enslave my person just so you can live and by golly gosh am I going to defend myself upto and including killing you.

Define slavery.
Last edited by Northern Davincia on Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Right-Libertarian, Minarchist, Laissez-faire Capitalist, Catholic

Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

User avatar
Godular
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9659
Founded: Sep 09, 2004
New York Times Democracy

Postby Godular » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:27 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Internationalist Bastard wrote:Pretty much this
Even if it is killing someone it’s justified

Except it's not in this circumstance.


Yes actually it is.

Woodfiredpizzas wrote:
You try and enslave my person just so you can live and by golly gosh am I going to defend myself upto and including killing you.

Define slavery.


There's a bunch of definitions, some of which actually come very much into parallel with rape. Why are you even asking? You going to try and no-true-scotslavery or something?
RL position
Active RP: ASCENSION
Active RP: SHENRYAX
Dormant RP: Throne of the Fallen Empire

Faction 1: The An'Kazar Control Framework of Godular-- An enormously advanced collective of formerly human bioborgs engaged in a galaxy-spanning reign of terror for as-yet-unknown reasons. (SWG)
A 1.45 civilization, according to this Nation Index Thingie
I don't normally use NS stats. But when I do, I prefer Dos Eckis I can STILL kill you.
Post responsibly.

User avatar
Northern Davincia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12762
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Davincia » Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:29 pm

Godular wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Define slavery.


There's a bunch of definitions, some of which actually come very much into parallel with rape. Why are you even asking? You going to try and no-true-scotslavery or something?

If you cannot define slavery, we have no common ground for what is and isn't slavery. If you believe a fetus is part of the mother's body, we are left with the conclusion that the mother is enslaving herself.
Right-Libertarian, Minarchist, Laissez-faire Capitalist, Catholic

Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

User avatar
The Caleshan Valkyrie
Diplomat
 
Posts: 689
Founded: Oct 07, 2004
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Caleshan Valkyrie » Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:03 am

Northern Davincia wrote:
Godular wrote:
There's a bunch of definitions, some of which actually come very much into parallel with rape. Why are you even asking? You going to try and no-true-scotslavery or something?

If you cannot define slavery, we have no common ground for what is and isn't slavery. If you believe a fetus is part of the mother's body, we are left with the conclusion that the mother is enslaving herself.


That in itself is a rather silly claim to make, with rather impressive jumps of logic completely irrespective of what the definition of slavery might be.

The ‘enslavement’ comes from forcing somebody to do something they do not want to do. It falls closely in line with the point that no person has the right to use another person’s body without their consent. To claim that the woman has enslaved herself by getting pregnant is rather silly because such would imply she is forcing herself to remain pregnant... a rather ludicrous notion.

No, she would have identified a situation in which she is being harmed (and she most definitely is, whether ‘intent’ to harm existed or not) and seeks to remedy the situation.
Godulan Puppet #2, RPing as technologically advanced tribal society combined between several groups of ancient arabs and mongols with vikings.

Current Intro RP: Gravity Ships and Garden Snips

User avatar
The Alma Mater
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 17046
Founded: May 23, 2004
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The Alma Mater » Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:49 am

Northern Davincia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Why should a fetus get special rights no one else has?

Does anyone else have the right to kill you or me? Does anyone else have the right to plunge scalpels into our heads or poison us?


If you attach yourself to my body, draining my nutrients and pumping me full of hormones... certainly.
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease.
It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
- Terry Pratchett, Hogfather

User avatar
The Feylands
Envoy
 
Posts: 286
Founded: Jul 13, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Feylands » Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:59 am

I'm pro-life although I don't believe in "rights".. hah... :lol:

Yeh, there could legitimate circumstances were an abortion in the first trimester could be kinda justified (rape, risking severe injure or death, the fetus already being brain dead etc.). After all, on some occasions the body will reject the fetus.

But I have to say I'm still pro-life in the general sense. I think I was even before I was an X-tian too, and I still am after saying goodbye to X-tianity, since its not really a religious issue. People making decisions about when a life is a life doesn't feel that swell imho. Because it's always gonna be an arbitrary thing. I feel more positive about the "rights" of fetuses more than those of adult humans for the same reason I support animal rights - these are innocent beings who cannot defend themselves and have done nothing to deserve suffering or death. :(

On top of that - the social implications are very bad. It's another symptom of the "sexual revolution" that was all about men's desires, were women have to suffer the consequences. Without any sense of decency or ethics, a man is just a primitive sex machine, as he is physically designed like that (I don't think I have to do sex education with you guys and explain the anatomy behind this lol). And we have a culture that doesn't do enough to teach men ideals about their natural duty to protecting women, but rather urges women to adopt bad male qualities for the sake of "equality". :(

Women are by nature generally speaking (not always on an individual level) more empathic and have a greater sense of beauty and dignity than men. Abortions are a corruption of what it means to be a woman. :(

Hey there u! I'm Fey - the Celestial Fairy Princess! "Mᴀᴋɪɴɢ NS ᴄᴏsɪᴇʀ sɪɴᴄᴇ 2017!"® (◕‿◕)
, Vegetarian, Crazy Cat Lady, Dharmic Pagan, Metal, Fantasy, Elf/Fairy, Chinaboo, Yogi etc.
How can I be so cuddly and huggable? ♥♥♥ Because I exist to ease the suffering of this world! (⌒▽⌒) #TheBuddhaRocks
Little secret: I have a superpower called "ADHD". (^̮^)
♥Her Radiance's Celestial Thought♥
Neat: Essentialism, Monarchy, Difference Feminism, Animal rights, Green Conservatism, 中国, Beauty, Dignity of all life
ಠ~ಠ: Passive aggressive dorks, Abrahamic/Antropocentric world-view(s), the EU, celebrating ugliness..
I support Israel and everyone who suffer needlessly because of their own compassion.♥ (ಥ﹏ಥ)

User avatar
The New California Republic
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19192
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:32 am

The Feylands wrote:People making decisions about when a life is a life doesn't feel that swell imho. Because it's always gonna be an arbitrary thing.

Pro-choice people don't claim that the fetus isn't alive...



The Feylands wrote:I feel more positive about the "rights" of fetuses more than those of adult humans for the same reason I support animal rights - these are innocent beings who cannot defend themselves and have done nothing to deserve suffering or death.

If an animal, let's for example's sake say a dog, was inside my body leeching nutrients to stay alive and I don't want it there, and the only way to get rid of it is to remove it through a procedure that will result in its death, then that's what must be done. Sorry.



The Feylands wrote:On top of that - the social implications are very bad. It's another symptom of the "sexual revolution" that was all about men's desires, were women have to suffer the consequences.

I think that you have grossly misrepresented what the sexual revolution was.



The Feylands wrote:Without any sense of decency or ethics, a man is just a primitive sex machine, as he is physically designed like that

Fucking load of nonsense. If man was solely for sex, then man would be a sphere (a testicle...?) with hundreds of penises protruding out of it.



The Feylands wrote:(I don't think I have to do sex education with you guys and explain the anatomy behind this lol).

I think you need to re-examine the human body, if you think that the human body is just for sex.



The Feylands wrote: And we have a culture that doesn't do enough to teach men ideals about their natural duty to protecting women, but rather urges women to adopt bad male qualities for the sake of "equality". :(

The fuck is this? How is this in any way related to abortion?



The Feylands wrote:Women are by nature generally speaking (not always on an individual level) more empathic and have a greater sense of beauty and dignity than men.

Again, what the fuck is this? How is this in any way related to abortion?



The Feylands wrote:Abortions are a corruption of what it means to be a woman.

Only if you consider women to be nothing more than baby factories...
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the complete victory over Caesar's Legion, and the pacification and annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.
Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.)
.

||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
The Feylands
Envoy
 
Posts: 286
Founded: Jul 13, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Feylands » Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:02 am

The New California Republic wrote:If an animal, let's for example's sake say a dog, was inside my body leeching nutrients to stay alive and I don't want it there, and the only way to get rid of it is to remove it through a procedure that will result in its death, then that's what must be done. Sorry.
Here's the problem. You have this unnatural "logical" way of thinking that a baby is somehow relatable to a virus or whatever because "muh rights" and humans have a "right" to do whatever they want with their bodies. No, you don't. >:(

We were all on that stage at some point. It's not just some random bacteria we have a "right" to get rid of. :(

The New California Republic wrote:Fucking load of nonsense. If man was solely for sex, then man would be a sphere (a testicle...?) with hundreds of penises protruding out of it.
Now you're being black-and-white and red tapely. I never wrote that men were solely for sex. But the way male sexuality works would make a man a fairly primitive beast if he had no sense of morals and ethics and such. These differences can even be noted across the sexual orientations. Gay men watch a lot more porn with men than women do.

Men and the Power of the Visual

Abortions are thus a negative male influence on our culture. They exist so that men don't have to control their primitive sexual desires. And women have to bear the consequences of that. :(

The New California Republic wrote:Only if you consider women to be nothing more than baby factories...
To deny the fact that only women can bear children is to deny nature. Yeh - women are many things, individually as well as collectively, but having babies is a typical female trait. This is probably one of the reasons for women being more empathic than men. :)

It's relevant because radfems are others are masculinizing women and brutalizing what it means to be a woman according to some egalitarian mumbo jumbo that some "logical" men (typical male behaviour btw) have thought out. And abortions are part of this. I don't want women to have to become like men to get acceptance. :(
Last edited by The Feylands on Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

Hey there u! I'm Fey - the Celestial Fairy Princess! "Mᴀᴋɪɴɢ NS ᴄᴏsɪᴇʀ sɪɴᴄᴇ 2017!"® (◕‿◕)
, Vegetarian, Crazy Cat Lady, Dharmic Pagan, Metal, Fantasy, Elf/Fairy, Chinaboo, Yogi etc.
How can I be so cuddly and huggable? ♥♥♥ Because I exist to ease the suffering of this world! (⌒▽⌒) #TheBuddhaRocks
Little secret: I have a superpower called "ADHD". (^̮^)
♥Her Radiance's Celestial Thought♥
Neat: Essentialism, Monarchy, Difference Feminism, Animal rights, Green Conservatism, 中国, Beauty, Dignity of all life
ಠ~ಠ: Passive aggressive dorks, Abrahamic/Antropocentric world-view(s), the EU, celebrating ugliness..
I support Israel and everyone who suffer needlessly because of their own compassion.♥ (ಥ﹏ಥ)

User avatar
The New California Republic
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19192
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:28 am

The Feylands wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:If an animal, let's for example's sake say a dog, was inside my body leeching nutrients to stay alive and I don't want it there, and the only way to get rid of it is to remove it through a procedure that will result in its death, then that's what must be done. Sorry.


Here's the problem. You have this unnatural "logical" way of thinking that a baby is somehow relatable to a virus or whatever because "muh rights" and humans have a "right" to do whatever they want with their bodies. No, you don't. >:(

First of all, it isn't a baby, it's a fetus. Be careful with your terminology.

The woman has a right not to have her body occupied by a foreign organism that she doesn't want to be there. That said, the alternative is to have the woman's body enslaved to the fetus for 9 months if it remains there against the woman's will.



The Feylands wrote:We were all on that stage at some point. It's not just some random bacteria we have a "right" to get rid of. :(

Nobody said that it was bacteria.



The Feylands wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Fucking load of nonsense. If man was solely for sex, then man would be a sphere (a testicle...?) with hundreds of penises protruding out of it.


Now you're being black-and-white and red tapely. I never wrote that men were solely for sex.

Uh huh, you pretty much did say that they were physically for sex:

The Feylands wrote:Without any sense of decency or ethics, a man is just a primitive sex machine, as he is physically designed like that




The Feylands wrote:But the way male sexuality works would make a man a fairly primitive beast if he had no sense of morals and ethics and such.

So? Women would be too. What is that meant to prove in relation to abortion?



The Feylands wrote:These differences can even be noted across the sexual orientations. Gay men watch a lot more porn with men than women do.

Again, what is that meant to prove in relation to abortion?



The Feylands wrote:Abortions are thus a negative male influence on our culture. They exist so that men don't have to control their primitive sexual desires. And women have to bear the consequences of that. :(

Non sequitur. An extreme one at that.



The Feylands wrote:To deny the fact that only women can bear children is to deny nature. Yeh - women are many things, individually as well as collectively, but having babies is a typical female trait.

You said the following:
The Feylands wrote:Abortions are a corruption of what it means to be a woman.

The only way that abortions could be seen to be a "corruption of what it means to be a woman" is if you think the only meaning of woman is to pop out babies.
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the complete victory over Caesar's Legion, and the pacification and annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.
Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.)
.

||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 63291
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Genivaria » Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:55 am

Something I've asked repeatedly on this thread that noone has answered is this:
Why should a 'future person' carry the same importance as a 'present person'.
In most cases when we talk of something that 'will be' we understand that the implication is that the thing doesn't yet exist.
General Sherman did nothing wrong, fact.
Liberal Social Democrat.

Proud denouncer of the Taliban.

User avatar
Christian Confederation
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1159
Founded: Dec 12, 2018
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Christian Confederation » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:02 am

Neutraligon wrote:
Christian Confederation wrote:I think Ben Shapiro put it well at the march for life in DC last weekend. I also agree with most of his points.

Which where?

Sorry I forgot about this thread.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6X1M4pNM-cI
Founder of the moderate alliance
Open to new members, and embassy's.
My telagram box is always open for productive conversation.
IRL political views center right/ right.

User avatar
Evil Dictators Happyland
Minister
 
Posts: 3223
Founded: Aug 03, 2016
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:05 am

Genivaria wrote:Something I've asked repeatedly on this thread that noone has answered is this:
Why should a 'future person' carry the same importance as a 'present person'.
In most cases when we talk of something that 'will be' we understand that the implication is that the thing doesn't yet exist.

This was always my issue with 90% of the pro-life arguments. If a fetus is given human rights based on the fact that its purpose is to develop into a walking, breathing human, then could you not use the same argument to defend sperm cells? Do they have human rights, too? If a fetus absorbs its twin (which happens more often than I initially expected), is that murder? There is no possible explanation for a fetus counting as a separate human being that doesn't bring up many other questions that, while definitely answerable, do not have answers that make logical sense.
Killer Queen has already touched this signature.

User avatar
Jebslund
Minister
 
Posts: 2544
Founded: Sep 14, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Jebslund » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:11 am

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Something I've asked repeatedly on this thread that noone has answered is this:
Why should a 'future person' carry the same importance as a 'present person'.
In most cases when we talk of something that 'will be' we understand that the implication is that the thing doesn't yet exist.

This was always my issue with 90% of the pro-life arguments. If a fetus is given human rights based on the fact that its purpose is to develop into a walking, breathing human, then could you not use the same argument to defend sperm cells? Do they have human rights, too? If a fetus absorbs its twin (which happens more often than I initially expected), is that murder? There is no possible explanation for a fetus counting as a separate human being that doesn't bring up many other questions that, while definitely answerable, do not have answers that make logical sense.

That's because 90% of pro-life arguments are essentially knee-jerk reactions to killing what they perceive as a baby and imagining a born infant being torn apart with no regard for context. I noticed in IM's Operation Big Dog thread that people seemed to be making the same sort of knee-jerk reactions: Ignoring the context (there, dogs that had essentially been driven to the point of madness, here, a nonsapient clump of cells) and reacting based on a worst-case-scenario version of it (there, reacting as if the dogs in question were normal house animals, here, reacting as if we were talking about dismembering infants) out of a sense of moral outrage.
Jebslund is a nation of kerbals ruled by Emperor Jebediah Kerman. We reject tyranny, believing that rights should be protected, though we also believe said rights end where the rights of others begin.
Shockingly, we *do* use NS stats, with the exception of lifespan.
Singular sapient: Jebslunder
Plural Sapient: Jebslunden
Singular/Plural nonsapient: Kermanic
Note: When a verb can logically only be done by the sapient using/piloting/holding the object in question, then the appropriate demonym for the number of sapients is used.

Capitalism, Socialism, and Communism are ECONOMIC SYSTEMS. Stop conflating them with political systems.

User avatar
The Feylands
Envoy
 
Posts: 286
Founded: Jul 13, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Feylands » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:47 am

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:This was always my issue with 90% of the pro-life arguments. If a fetus is given human rights based on the fact that its purpose is to develop into a walking, breathing human, then could you not use the same argument to defend sperm cells? Do they have human rights, too? If a fetus absorbs its twin (which happens more often than I initially expected), is that murder? There is no possible explanation for a fetus counting as a separate human being that doesn't bring up many other questions that, while definitely answerable, do not have answers that make logical sense.


I actually agree. Pro-life people who are making a "human rights" issue out of it are predestined to be losers. Sorry. :( But you know.. if you accept the vocabulary of the enemy, you've kinda already lost. These group of folks have the same issue as animal rights activists who wanna make animal rights some kind of extension of "human rights". It goes against the nature of that ideology, those ideas. You're only gonna end up like a bunch of masochists licking the hand that constantly beats you, and being thankful for it. And it just makes you look pathetic. :( The special snowflake "I have muh rights" thing is the ultimate consequence of a way of thinking that ignores reality and nature and treats humans like some kind of logical clusters of data and thoughts who just "deserve" things because they do lol. No.. you don't... >:( And this is not an issue of "human rights". It's an issue of abominable behaviour that ought to stop and some of us want to take the "right" to stop it because we feel it is right to do so. We can all see the justifications behind this practice, "the woman has a right not to have her body occupied by a foreign organism", etc. This is a threat to the survival of any sort of society, and the practice itself leads to people jumping into such conclusions. It completely ignores the essence of say, the difference between a little human in development, and a "foreign organism", which is in the nature of such beliefs about "rights"... I fear. :(

Like when the "pro-life" moment in the US got into a mental state similar to a sudden urgent need to pee, collectively, because Trump had said something that could be interpreted as that if abortions were illegal, they should be punished. I don't wanna sound unnecessarily mean/harsh, but... like.. what a bunch of spineless cowards... -.- They're probably like that because they are often Christians and wanna seem like Good™ people. I'm not a Good™ person, thank you. Good™ people are the most unsexy group of folks imaginable. No offence lol. :lol:

I rarely use terms like "cuckservative" since I'm probably among those who could fit into that label myself, being quite liberal etc. But that's exactly what I felt when I saw that. What a spineless bunch of losers. Of course there should be a punishment for something as serious as killing another living being, but the woman still needs therapy/help etc. unless she's a complete psychopath, and the person who really deserves the strictest punishment possible is the male who makes a profit from killing babies in their mother's womb. >:( He's an enemy of dignity, and probably a psychopath to boot. Those who doubt me can go check what an abortion actually looks like.

Image


Which is also why I don't really know how to respond to one of the above posters. He (?) seems to live in a different, very typically male ("rational") reality. I don't accept some pseudo-intellectual special snowflake discourse/terminology that turns babies into "foreign organisms" "occupying" the female body, while talking about pseudo-religious "rights" of humans to compensate their lack of responsibility/effort and desire for various stuff. :( This is just some silly egalitarian revolt against nature based on ideas that men sitting in a room somewhere being "intellectual" have come up with. >:(

It's frightening to think that even in the middle ages they got that women are generally better and more virtuous than men and modern feminism tries to accomplish the exact opposite. :( I mean - what the h***, many don't even believe that women exist as a biological fact... but that's a matter for another thread, I guess...
Last edited by The Feylands on Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:53 am, edited 6 times in total.

Hey there u! I'm Fey - the Celestial Fairy Princess! "Mᴀᴋɪɴɢ NS ᴄᴏsɪᴇʀ sɪɴᴄᴇ 2017!"® (◕‿◕)
, Vegetarian, Crazy Cat Lady, Dharmic Pagan, Metal, Fantasy, Elf/Fairy, Chinaboo, Yogi etc.
How can I be so cuddly and huggable? ♥♥♥ Because I exist to ease the suffering of this world! (⌒▽⌒) #TheBuddhaRocks
Little secret: I have a superpower called "ADHD". (^̮^)
♥Her Radiance's Celestial Thought♥
Neat: Essentialism, Monarchy, Difference Feminism, Animal rights, Green Conservatism, 中国, Beauty, Dignity of all life
ಠ~ಠ: Passive aggressive dorks, Abrahamic/Antropocentric world-view(s), the EU, celebrating ugliness..
I support Israel and everyone who suffer needlessly because of their own compassion.♥ (ಥ﹏ಥ)

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alencharia, Austria-Bohemia-Hungary, Auzkhia, Dazchan, Diopolis, Dooom35796821595, Google [Bot], Internationalist Bastard, Lillorainen, New Genoa, Spiritualizers, Tarsonis, The Blaatschapen

Advertisement

Remove ads