[Abortion Thread] (YET ANOTHER POLL!) Taking measure.

[Godular]

1. No. You were referring to ‘republicans’. That is a great deal broader than speaking of lawmakers.

2. Another bad debate tactic: Acting as if everybody else should think the same way you do. That is both arrogant and once again alienating. You’re brow-beating the other side just like the worst among THEM do to us. Be the better person.

I said in a previous post you’re only giving them basis to double down. Stop. Giving. Them. Ammunition.

And you are asking me to see their side of things it seems, as if I should sympathize with their cause. Why should I?

Because shouting them down does not convince them of anything other than your overtly hysterical behavior and talking-points-only argumentation. Because listening to their arguments is the first fucking step in addressing and countering them. BECAUSE LISTENING TO THEIR ARGUMENT DOES NOT MEAN SYMPATHIZING WITH IT.

How does that fucking scan?

Wanting to take away someone's right to control their body is tyranny no matter what the excuse is.

Abortion is a moral gray area, with significant debate over which party is being ‘oppressed’. You are JUST as bad as those pro-lifers that scream ‘abortion is murrrrrrrrrrrrrder!’ when you steadfastly refuse to listen to others aside from trying to justify why you don’t have to listen to them.

You keep helping their argument. Stop. Fucking. Doing that.

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

No, we don't. All of your posts so far on this thread have involved jumping between various criticisms of conservatives, completely irrelevant criticisms that have nothing to do with abortion....

But it all comes down to abortion as they, social conservatives, want to get rid of it as a way of enforcing their religious beliefs on everyone.

Do you base all your posts on "how can I shit on conservatism today?"

[The New California Republic]

Wanting to take away someone's right to control their body is tyranny no matter what the excuse is.

Abortion is a moral gray area, with significant debate over which party is being ‘oppressed’. You are JUST as bad as those pro-lifers that scream ‘abortion is murrrrrrrrrrrrrder!’ when you steadfastly refuse to listen to others aside from trying to justify why you don’t have to listen to them.

You keep helping their argument. Stop. Fucking. Doing that.

It's like I have said repeatedly, I cannot help shake the feeling that there is some major false flag bullshittery happening here, just because the kind of arguments that they keep coming up with. It just reads like parody at some parts.

[Estanglia]

1. No. You were referring to ‘republicans’. That is a great deal broader than speaking of lawmakers.

2. Another bad debate tactic: Acting as if everybody else should think the same way you do. That is both arrogant and once again alienating. You’re brow-beating the other side just like the worst among THEM do to us. Be the better person.

I said in a previous post you’re only giving them basis to double down. Stop. Giving. Them. Ammunition.

And you are asking me to see their side of things it seems, as if I should sympathize with their cause.

You can see other's point of views without sympathising with them.

Why should I?

Because you need to if you want to convince them that your argument is correct and win them over to your side so your great fear of roe v wade being overturned leading to many states banning it won't happen.

Wanting to take away someone's right to control their body is tyranny no matter what the excuse is.

They believe abortion is murder. So, to them, you're advocating murder.

[Datlofff]

Biggest question to address when defining whether or not to end abortion is, "What defines a life?" If we go by the biological definition for life, then we have these categories to discuss:

The organism must be made of cells. - A fetus is made of cells
Have the ability to grow and develop. - Fetus do grow and develop, into infants
Have the ability to reproduce and produce offspring. - Eventually a fetus will grow into a full fledged human, and be able to reproduce
The living organism must contain DNA. - Not really 100% mandatory as there is still the debate about virus', but yes fetus have DNA
The organism must use energy for daily activities. - Fetus require energy in the form of ATP, just like you or I
The living object must have the ability to respond to stimuli. - Fetus has proven to react to positive and negative stimuli
Finally, the organism must have levels of organization. - Fetus do have levels of organization, as they are multi-cellular beings with organs. (heavily dependent on stage of development)

Under these definitions, and most common definitions, a fetus is clearly a life. I personally don't think whether or not the fetus is a "person" makes that much of a difference, because biologically speaking, it is alive, and it is human.

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

Biggest question to address when defining whether or not to end abortion is, "What defines a life?" If we go by the biological definition for life, then we have these categories to discuss:

The organism must be made of cells. - A fetus is made of cells
Have the ability to grow and develop. - Fetus do grow and develop, into infants
Have the ability to reproduce and produce offspring. - Eventually a fetus will grow into a full fledged human, and be able to reproduce
The living organism must contain DNA. - Not really 100% mandatory as there is still the debate about virus', but yes fetus have DNA
The organism must use energy for daily activities. - Fetus require energy in the form of ATP, just like you or I
The living object must have the ability to respond to stimuli. - Fetus has proven to react to positive and negative stimuli
Finally, the organism must have levels of organization. - Fetus do have levels of organization, as they are multi-cellular beings with organs. (heavily dependent on stage of development)

Under these definitions, and most common definitions, a fetus is clearly a life. I personally don't think whether or not the fetus is a "person" makes that much of a difference, because biologically speaking, it is alive, and it is human.

The only reason you can actually experience life is because you are conscious and have emotions - and it has been scientifically proven that a fetus does not become conscious until 24-30 weeks (and 92% of abortions happen before 12 weeks, let alone 24)

[The Alma Mater]

Under these definitions, and most common definitions, a fetus is clearly a life. I personally don't think whether or not the fetus is a "person" makes that much of a difference, because biologically speaking, it is alive, and it is human.

It certainly makes a difference to the fetus though.
Or in fact, it does not. Because the fetus does. not. care. Is in factincapable of caring.

[Datlofff]

Under these definitions, and most common definitions, a fetus is clearly a life. I personally don't think whether or not the fetus is a "person" makes that much of a difference, because biologically speaking, it is alive, and it is human.

It certainly makes a difference to the fetus though.
Or in fact, it does not. Because the fetus does. not. care. Is in factincapable of caring.

Caring does not define what is and is not life. A cell does not care, it is incapable of caring, yet its still life.

[Datlofff]

Biggest question to address when defining whether or not to end abortion is, "What defines a life?" If we go by the biological definition for life, then we have these categories to discuss:

The organism must be made of cells. - A fetus is made of cells
Have the ability to grow and develop. - Fetus do grow and develop, into infants
Have the ability to reproduce and produce offspring. - Eventually a fetus will grow into a full fledged human, and be able to reproduce
The living organism must contain DNA. - Not really 100% mandatory as there is still the debate about virus', but yes fetus have DNA
The organism must use energy for daily activities. - Fetus require energy in the form of ATP, just like you or I
The living object must have the ability to respond to stimuli. - Fetus has proven to react to positive and negative stimuli
Finally, the organism must have levels of organization. - Fetus do have levels of organization, as they are multi-cellular beings with organs. (heavily dependent on stage of development)

Under these definitions, and most common definitions, a fetus is clearly a life. I personally don't think whether or not the fetus is a "person" makes that much of a difference, because biologically speaking, it is alive, and it is human.

The only reason you can actually experience life is because you are conscious and have emotions - and it has been scientifically proven that a fetus does not become conscious until 24-30 weeks (and 92% of abortions happen before 12 weeks, let alone 24)

And by killing the fetus you are robbing it of the chance to ever experience said life.

[San Lumen]

The only reason you can actually experience life is because you are conscious and have emotions - and it has been scientifically proven that a fetus does not become conscious until 24-30 weeks (and 92% of abortions happen before 12 weeks, let alone 24)

And by killing the fetus you are robbing it of the chance to ever experience said life.

And what if you have a toxic pregnancy? Is the fetus's life more important than the mother?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

It certainly makes a difference to the fetus though.
Or in fact, it does not. Because the fetus does. not. care. Is in factincapable of caring.

Caring does not define what is and is not life. A cell does not care, it is incapable of caring, yet its still life.

You know what else is life? Y. Pestis. A bacterium that doesn't care. And yet, we use antibiotics to counter it. It's incapable of caring, yet it's still life.

[Estanglia]

It certainly makes a difference to the fetus though.
Or in fact, it does not. Because the fetus does. not. care. Is in factincapable of caring.

Caring does not define what is and is not life. A cell does not care, it is incapable of caring, yet its still life.

But is it a person?

[The New California Republic]

Caring does not define what is and is not life. A cell does not care, it is incapable of caring, yet its still life.

But is it a person?

A fetus isn't a person.

[Godular]

It certainly makes a difference to the fetus though.
Or in fact, it does not. Because the fetus does. not. care. Is in factincapable of caring.

Caring does not define what is and is not life. A cell does not care, it is incapable of caring, yet its still life.

The same could be said of cancer cells. They are genetically distinct, and most assuredly 'alive'.

The only reason you can actually experience life is because you are conscious and have emotions - and it has been scientifically proven that a fetus does not become conscious until 24-30 weeks (and 92% of abortions happen before 12 weeks, let alone 24)

And by killing the fetus you are robbing it of the chance to ever experience said life.

That is not particularly relevant. There will be others, there will always be others, and if the woman has control over when and how it happens that allows for a better quality of life for both woman and child.

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

The only reason you can actually experience life is because you are conscious and have emotions - and it has been scientifically proven that a fetus does not become conscious until 24-30 weeks (and 92% of abortions happen before 12 weeks, let alone 24)

And by killing the fetus you are robbing it of the chance to ever experience said life.

Potential is a completely abstract quality. if a fetus was aborted before 24 weeks, it would have never knew that it even existed and would not have experienced the slightest inconvenience.

[Katganistan]

And the Nazis had the right to put jews into death camps. *nods*

None of those have any correlation to one another, and you fucking know it.

Why? They're being punished for disobeying the law.

[Katganistan]

If you believe in protecting all life, born and unborn, without exceptions, including being anti-death penalty and anti-euthanasia, then you wouldn’t promote abortion for said reason. Consistency in one’s beliefs. Plus society needs to do more to help women who have been raped, and not in ways that involve promoting the death of the unborn baby.

Therefore they should be forced to carry a criminals child to term?

Right, because that wouldn't make some women suicidal.

It's disgusting how women are treated as incubators, and cells are treated as the savior reborn.

[Triassica]

Therefore they should be forced to carry a criminals child to term?

Right, because that wouldn't make some women suicidal.

It's disgusting how women are treated as incubators, and cells are treated as the savior reborn.

And people say I use too much of a broad brush when criticizing the Social Conservative movement and their goal to rob from women the right to choose. It's pretty much hard not to call it all malicious and misogynistic...

[The New California Republic]

Right, because that wouldn't make some women suicidal.

It's disgusting how women are treated as incubators, and cells are treated as the savior reborn.

And people say I use too much of a broad brush when criticizing the Social Conservative movement and their goal to rob from women the right to choose. It's pretty much hard not to call it all malicious and misogynistic...

No, you go off on rants in an attempt to demonise conservatives more broadly, there is a world of difference between what Kat is saying and what you have been saying...

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

Right, because that wouldn't make some women suicidal.

It's disgusting how women are treated as incubators, and cells are treated as the savior reborn.

And people say I use too much of a broad brush when criticizing the Social Conservative movement and their goal to rob from women the right to choose. It's pretty much hard not to call it all malicious and misogynistic...

Did you implicitly say that you want to shit on all conservatives because some oppose abortion?

[Triassica]

And people say I use too much of a broad brush when criticizing the Social Conservative movement and their goal to rob from women the right to choose. It's pretty much hard not to call it all malicious and misogynistic...

Did you implicitly say that you want to shit on all conservatives because some oppose abortion?

I said the Social Conservative movement...

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

Did you implicitly say that you want to shit on all conservatives because some oppose abortion?

I said the Social Conservative movement...

Not all social conservatives oppose abortion, especially in more pro-choice areas of the world such as most of Europe. A 2010 poll in the UK showed that 36% of people support abortion in all circumstances, 55% support abortion in certain circumstances, and only 3% oppose abortion in all circumstances.

[The New California Republic]

Did you implicitly say that you want to shit on all conservatives because some oppose abortion?

I said the Social Conservative movement...

Regardless, you have still been using this thread as a platform to demonise them using off-topic arguments like race and sexuality.

[Triassica]

I said the Social Conservative movement...

Not all social conservatives oppose abortion, especially in more pro-choice areas of the world such as most of Europe. A 2010 poll in the UK showed that 36% of people support abortion in all circumstances, 55% support abortion in certain circumstances, and only 3% oppose abortion in all circumstances.

What about American Social Conservatives?

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

Not all social conservatives oppose abortion, especially in more pro-choice areas of the world such as most of Europe. A 2010 poll in the UK showed that 36% of people support abortion in all circumstances, 55% support abortion in certain circumstances, and only 3% oppose abortion in all circumstances.

What about American Social Conservatives?

Only 17% of Americans, according to a 2007 poll, believe that abortion should only be allowed to save the woman's life or banned completely.