Dutch FM: ''Peaceful diverse societies are non-existent''

[Ifreann]

Japan - the ethno-state with multiple native ethnicities.

I guess ethno-state is one of those words that means whatever is convenient at the time.

Most all of the ethnicities you're probably thinking of (ie Ainu) have been near totally assimilated into wider Japanese culture. The country is 98% Japanese and it's pretty damn xenophobic, it's fair to call it an ethnostate.

It's fair to call Japan an ethno-state because the still extant minority ethnicities have been near totally assimilated into wider Japanese...culture? Not Japanese ethnicity? Doesn't seem to add up. Does someone's Ainu or Ryukyuan ethnicity disappear depending on that person's behaviour?

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Can we get back on topic pls?

[The South Falls]

Can we get back on topic pls?

Switzerland exists.

/thread

[Auze]

Japan - the ethno-state with multiple native ethnicities.

I guess ethno-state is one of those words that means whatever is convenient at the time.

Most all of the ethnicities you're probably thinking of (ie Ainu) have been near totally assimilated into wider Japanese culture. The country is 98% Japanese and it's pretty damn xenophobic, it's fair to call it an ethnostate.

The ryukans have remained fairly unassimilated from what I read. The Ainu, on the other hand... It's sad when China does more to reverse assimilation between cultures than Japan has.

[Iyrwuld]

I remember I used to be taken erroneously by falsified statistics that represented these issues. I still feel embarrassed by it. Xenophobia is an issue, and I don't personally believe nations differ due to multiculturalism. They're no worse off than any other nation.

[Rostavykhan]

Most all of the ethnicities you're probably thinking of (ie Ainu) have been near totally assimilated into wider Japanese culture. The country is 98% Japanese and it's pretty damn xenophobic, it's fair to call it an ethnostate.

It's fair to call Japan an ethno-state because the still extant minority ethnicities have been near totally assimilated into wider Japanese...culture? Not Japanese ethnicity? Doesn't seem to add up. Does someone's Ainu or Ryukyuan ethnicity disappear depending on that person's behaviour?

Apparently not, considering Ainu and Ryukyuans still face discrimination from Yamato Japanese, who are still the majority.

[Empire of Narnia]

He's wrong.

[UniversalCommons]

It is hard to classify something as an ethnostate-- Australia considers itself to be a diverse multicultural republic because it has a variety of European cultures in it including English, Scottish, Italian, and some Asians. It is considered the 12th most peaceful place on the Global Peace Index. What is the measure for diversity? Do you consider Australia to be a diverse society?

[Major-Tom]

Multiculturalism can cause a number of problems, from greater anti-social behavior to problems with integration, but the FM is incorrect to say that a peaceful and diverse society isn't possible/doesn't exist. In the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc, all diverse and wealthy countries that are arguably more peaceful than most.

There are valid arguments to be made in regards to integration in Europe not going great, but comments like these miss the mark in that they're incorrect and really quite broad (in a bad way).

[Sovaal]

I remember I used to be taken erroneously by falsified statistics that represented these issues. I still feel embarrassed by it. Xenophobia is an issue, and I don't personally believe nations differ due to multiculturalism. They're no worse off than any other nation.

It can be done, but it brings about its own issues. One only has to look at Yugoslavia to see the worse possible outcome.

[Cedoria]

The Dutchman in the quote should be COMMENDED for speaking the truth. He is sounding the alarm of the great dangers Europe is bringing upon itself.

This is the only way to make a diverse nation peacible. Please replace "American" with your nation's demonym.

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American."

"There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile."

"We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language, and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

IIRC, Theodore Roosevelt wrote this quote in 1919 AD in a letter to the American Defense Society. He also warned, for example, about Americans of German dissent trying to make their nation more like Germany or more in the interests of Germany, and said such an act was an abominationb because it implied they were still loyal to Germany.

It IS possible to be diverse and multi-ethnic. It is possible to incorporate one's own culture and heritage into a new culture or a new host nation without compromising one's loyalties to the host. It is NOT possible to allow cultures to develop parallel to each other and allow immigrants to keep themselves separate from their host society.

The problem is that Europe refuses to do this. Multiculturalism is inherently consistent of multiple cultures. They do not assimilate, and all immigrants that refuse to assimilate are a threat to the country and its culture. No exceptions. This is why it's always such a bad idea to massively import Muslims: far too many of them refuse to assimilate or incorporate their Islamic values and beliefs under the umbrella of a culture more civilized than their homeland. Muslims tend to be the worst at assimilation in the modern era, and we aren't doing anything about it. Immigrant children should be indoctrinated in their host country's values, culture, and language, or assimilation will never be allowed to happen.

-and no, to answer the initial question, NOTHING is wrong with an ethno-state. The only wrong is when an ethno-state is CREATED by uncivilized, grotesque, violent, or downright evil means.

Which it always is, ergo it's always wrong. It is a lying fantasy to suggest such a state could exist without such monstrosities.

[UniversalCommons]

An ethnostate can exist without those means. Some places are not worthwhile to travel to and they all have the same composition and are often poor or lack resources, people don't want to travel there because there are no jobs or resources, thus you have an ethnostate by default not intention.

[Frievolk]

An ethnostate can exist without those means. Some places are not worthwhile to travel to and they all have the same composition and are often poor or lack resources, people don't want to travel there because there are no jobs or resources, thus you have an ethnostate by default not intention.

That's not an ethnostate though. An ethnostate is a country (let's use the layman terms here) that only gives full citizenship to a specific ethnicity (or a specific set of ethnicities). Take Nazi Germany or Apartheid South Africa.

[His Excellence]

My favorite part of this whole debate is how the xenophobes insisting immigrants or ethnic minorities are a problem miss the fact that most of their """evidence""" is a result of those groups being disenfranchised by that xenophobic rhetoric in the first place. Treating refugees (or any other minority group) like subhuman invaders puts them in a socioeconomic position where their only options are languishing or lashing out, and even though very few go with the latter, it gets spun into somehow being the fault of the entire minority community, while the xenophobes responsible for those powder kegs act like their hands are clean.

[UniversalCommons]

An ethnostate can exist without those means. Some places are not worthwhile to travel to and they all have the same composition and are often poor or lack resources, people don't want to travel there because there are no jobs or resources, thus you have an ethnostate by default not intention.

That's not an ethnostate though. An ethnostate is a country (let's use the layman terms here) that only gives full citizenship to a specific ethnicity (or a specific set of ethnicities). Take Nazi Germany or Apartheid South Africa.

Not everyone wants to advertise they want to keep the neighbors out. The default is quite common.

[Francoli]

Culture is not the same as race or ethnicity. I know a great deal of ethnic Hispanics who have no love or care for their "homeland."

I firmly believe in a country with a unified culture, however I don't much care for racists.

[The Lone Alliance]

I like to imagine that truly peaceful societies are very hard to begin with.

Even the small town where everyone acts the same and knows one another tends to have that one asshole who causes trouble. It just means when the peace is broken everyone knows who's responsible.

[Cedoria]

I like to imagine that truly peaceful societies are very hard to begin with.

Even the small town where everyone acts the same and knows one another tends to have that one asshole who causes trouble. It just means when the peace is broken everyone knows who's responsible.

Apparently not everyone, since on these very forums I still find Saiwana blaming the Cronulla Riots on the victims of said riots. People blame who they want to blame in these matters, whether it's rational and factual or not.

[His Excellence]

Apparently not everyone, since on these very forums I still find Saiwana blaming the Cronulla Riots on the victims of said riots. People blame who they want to blame in these matters, whether it's rational and factual or not.

History is written by the victors, and when the guilty get to do the writing, being a victim is a crime.

[Phoenicaea]

..History is written by the Greeks, also. I agree, each will say what is the slighest gain for him, in ages of poor intellectual share, and in despotism

[Saiwania]

Apparently not everyone, since on these very forums I still find Saiwana blaming the Cronulla Riots on the victims of said riots. People blame who they want to blame in these matters, whether it's rational and factual or not.

What proof do you have that the Lebanese were blameless? It is clear as day to me that the root cause of the events were "four members of a group of eight Middle Eastern men." According to most background info I find on it anyways.

The first and foremost question that is raised for me upon reading about it is this- why were the Lebanese in Australia to begin with? What dumb Australian politician thought it'd be a good idea to let those people in? The Aborigines at least have an excuse in that they're native to Australia, even if at one point; they were a primitive people. The people from Lebanon however, didn't need to be there. They were a bad import that might've been kept out under more rational Australian leadership and never needed to happen.

People such as Bilal Skaf and the Khan brothers- MSK, MAK, MRK, and MMK were all arrested or convicted of serial rape of underage Australian women. Those are only the ones that got caught. Imagine the scale of the problem that goes unreported?

If you bring in a bunch of Muslims with values of Jihad, what else do people expect is going to happen? They're most obviously going to take negative actions against people they see as infidels or inferior. The solution to put a stop to that, is to come down on them like a ton of bricks or otherwise not let people from certain countries in.

You keep letting in riff raff from objectively bad or economically challenged nations and you'll get the 2015/2016 New Year's Eve sexual assaults in Germany replicated. 2,000+ north Africans and middle easterners (what all the European leftists said were "good people") are alleged to have perpetrated it and made it possible.

[Traceynia]

I live in south Florida and it's a pretty peaceful diverse society

[Bakery Hill]

Apparently not everyone, since on these very forums I still find Saiwana blaming the Cronulla Riots on the victims of said riots. People blame who they want to blame in these matters, whether it's rational and factual or not.

What proof do you have that the Lebanese were blameless? It is clear as day to me that the root cause of the events were "four members of a group of eight Middle Eastern men." According to most background info I find on it anyways.

The first and foremost question that is raised for me upon reading about it is this- why were the Lebanese in Australia to begin with? What dumb Australian politician thought it'd be a good idea to let those people in? The Aborigines at least have an excuse in that they're native to Australia, even if at one point; they were a primitive people. The people from Lebanon however, didn't need to be there. They were a bad import that might've been kept out under more rational Australian leadership and never needed to happen.

People such as Bilal Skaf and the Khan brothers- MSK, MAK, MRK, and MMK were all arrested or convicted of serial rape of underage Australian women. Those are only the ones that got caught. Imagine the scale of the problem that goes unreported?

Oh shit we got an Australian social expert online. Please tell me more about community and police relations in suburban Sydney!

[The Blaatschapen]

I live in south Florida and it's a pretty peaceful diverse society

I recently saw a documentary about there. It showed a different picture.

Poor Tony Montana

[Bakery Hill]

I like to imagine that truly peaceful societies are very hard to begin with.

Even the small town where everyone acts the same and knows one another tends to have that one asshole who causes trouble. It just means when the peace is broken everyone knows who's responsible.

Apparently not everyone, since on these very forums I still find Saiwana blaming the Cronulla Riots on the victims of said riots. People blame who they want to blame in these matters, whether it's rational and factual or not.

There were quite a few violent responses by Lebanese "victims" on the evening of the riot and the following day. The riot was fucked and totally driven by a sort of drunk white nationalism, but the situation was complex and hindsight we're lucky it didn't spiral out of control. Thankfully there's been nothing like in the past thirteen years.