US Midterm Election Megathread II: The Stretch Run Begins

[Washington Resistance Army]

For the vast majority of people it really won't be.

Oh but it will.

Except, you know, all the jobs it's going to take with not nearly enough replacements coming in and as we've previously discussed before UBI and such things are pipe dreams that'll never pan out in a meaningful way. Automation will only help the people who already have money and stand to profit by automating their businesses, for everyone else it'll just make life worse.

[Ifreann]

Extremely likely. Computers are good at doing loads of calculations really quickly, and that translates well to operating cars on the road.

That hasn’t been proven at all.

It's self-evident.

Automation is good, though, so fortunately you can't do anything to stop it.

Not for those it puts out of work.

That's only a problem if unemployed people don't have a decent standard of life.

We won’t be able to provide that if 60%+ of the nation is unemployed. That will break out welfare net. Oh and don’t even think about UBI or taxing the companies to pay for it. Those companies are going to be so powerful that congress will be forced to do what they want.

So in your world expect a lot more tax cuts for the rich.

No, Therm, in my world expect to eat the rich.

Businesses are for-profit endeavours. Everything they do is done to get richer.

Why do think I don’t like them? Why do ya think I’m a bloody socialist?

The rich only have the power we allow them to have. We hold in our hands a power greater than their hoarded gold, greater than the might of armies multiplied a thousand fold. We shall bring to birth a new world from the ashes of the old, for the union makes us strong.

[Thermodolia]

That hasn’t been proven at all.

It's self-evident.

No it’s not. Testing has proven that it’s not as simple as you think. In one case the computers had trouble distinguishing between a stop sign and a butterfly.

[Ifreann]

Oh but it will.

Except, you know, all the jobs it's going to take with not nearly enough replacements coming in and as we've previously discussed before UBI and such things are pipe dreams that'll never pan out in a meaningful way.

Nothing ever pans out when you refuse to even try.

Automation will only help the people who already have money and stand to profit by automating their businesses, for everyone else it'll just make life worse.

Until we tear down the capitalist system, seize the fully automated means of production, and live lives of gay space luxury.

[Thermodolia]

Except, you know, all the jobs it's going to take with not nearly enough replacements coming in and as we've previously discussed before UBI and such things are pipe dreams that'll never pan out in a meaningful way.

Nothing ever pans out when you refuse to even try.

Automation will only help the people who already have money and stand to profit by automating their businesses, for everyone else it'll just make life worse.

Until we tear down the capitalist system, seize the fully automated means of production, and live lives of gay space luxury.

Why do we even try to debate with you. You just end of resorting to shitposting

[Washington Resistance Army]

Except, you know, all the jobs it's going to take with not nearly enough replacements coming in and as we've previously discussed before UBI and such things are pipe dreams that'll never pan out in a meaningful way.

Nothing ever pans out when you refuse to even try.

A simple look at the numbers will show it'll never work. Last time I did the math I thought up a UBI that was $5,000 above the poverty line and even something that cheap and even if we excluded the rich from it came out to more than 10,000,000,000,000 dollars per year. It will never happen and if it does the amount you get will be so small you won't even be able to keep a roof over your head with it.

Until we tear down the capitalist system, seize the fully automated means of production, and live lives of gay space luxury.

Relying on idiotic memes for the future probably isn't the best way to ensure long stability in your nation.

[Petrasylvania]

Oh but it will.

How?

Because 60% unemployment is not something I look forward to. I guess you can’t wait till we roving bands of neo-Luddites smashing anything that has a computer.

All those children crying as Daddy and Mommy take a sledgehammer to their PS4s and XBoxOnes in the middle of a Fortnite tournament screaming about Judgment Day and the fight between man and machine.

[Ifreann]

It's self-evident.

No it’s not. Testing has proven that it’s not as simple as you think. In one case the computers had trouble distinguishing between a stop sign and a butterfly.

Good. That's what testing is for. Identifying bugs. Once those are worked out, robots will be driving rings around you. Literally, if necessary.

Heh, identifying bugs.

[Ifreann]

Nothing ever pans out when you refuse to even try.

Until we tear down the capitalist system, seize the fully automated means of production, and live lives of gay space luxury.

Why do we even try to debate with you. You just end of resorting to shitposting

Nothing shit about it, comrade.

---

Nothing ever pans out when you refuse to even try.

A simple look at the numbers will show it'll never work. Last time I did the math I thought up a UBI that was $5,000 above the poverty line and even something that cheap and even if we excluded the rich from it came out to more than 10,000,000,000,000 dollars per year. It will never happen and if it does the amount you get will be so small you won't even be able to keep a roof over your head with it.

When we no longer need to pay someone to build a house we won't be able to afford to pay someone to build a house.

Until we tear down the capitalist system, seize the fully automated means of production, and live lives of gay space luxury.

Relying on idiotic memes for the future probably isn't the best way to ensure long stability in your nation.

Calling something a meme isn't any kind of refutation of an idea. In fact, calling something a meme barely means anything any more.

[Washington Resistance Army]

A simple look at the numbers will show it'll never work. Last time I did the math I thought up a UBI that was $5,000 above the poverty line and even something that cheap and even if we excluded the rich from it came out to more than 10,000,000,000,000 dollars per year. It will never happen and if it does the amount you get will be so small you won't even be able to keep a roof over your head with it.

When we no longer need to pay someone to build a house we won't be able to afford to pay someone to build a house.

>implying the guy who owns the machines that will do that will just let you use them for free

Uh friendo I hate to break it to you but that's not how it works, and truthfully that would probably be more expensive than just getting construction workers to do it.

Calling something a meme isn't any kind of refutation of an idea. In fact, calling something a meme barely means anything any more.

I don't need to refute anything. It's literally a meme, that's what Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism is. If you wanna have an actual debate on the topic you're gonna need to put in a bit more effort.

[Corrian]

How about no.

How about I’d rather we don’t have 51% unemployment.

Well, the future is coming if you like it or not.

[Corrian]

I consider the fully autonomous age to either end up the greatest thing ever, or it goes terribly bad.

Knowing our government, it will probably become the latter.

[San Lumen]

I consider the fully autonomous age to either end up the greatest thing ever, or it goes terribly bad.

Knowing our government, it will probably become the latter.

If Detroit Become Human is any indication id rather not like to see AI

[Ifreann]

When we no longer need to pay someone to build a house we won't be able to afford to pay someone to build a house.

>implying the guy who owns the machines that will do that will just let you use them for free

Uh friendo I hate to break it to you but that's not how it works, and truthfully that would probably be more expensive than just getting construction workers to do it.

That's how it works now. What makes you think that the guy who owns the machines will continue to own the machines?

Calling something a meme isn't any kind of refutation of an idea. In fact, calling something a meme barely means anything any more.

I don't need to refute anything. It's literally a meme, that's what Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism is. If you wanna have an actual debate on the topic you're gonna need to put in a bit more effort.

I could posit instead a society where automation is sufficiently advanced that there has ceased to be any need for humans to labour at any task at all, and that in this society it does not make sense for people's access to goods and services to depend on what tasks they labour at. I could point out that this would have to lead to a pseudo-communist society where the means of production are collectively owned, but where there are no longer workers. I could tell you that in such a society, we would all have unlimited free time to pursue whatever interest took our fancy.

But if you're going to actively shut down all thought when you recognise a phrase or idea because "It's a meme!" then maybe all I'd be doing is wasting my time.

*checks watch*

Better than nothing, I guess.

[Shofercia]

The guy who wants to start an Autonomous Vehicle Caucus intrigues me honestly.

Well, here's a quote from his website, apparently he's pushed a lot of bills in the State Senate to further autonomous vehicles in Michigan:

In the State Senate, I’ve been at the forefront of efforts to expand autonomous vehicles, authoring a new law that will help provide safer transportation, better mobility and a stronger economy. My legislation will expand research and testing so that we can get autonomous vehicles to market quickly and safely. Advances in technology will allow Michigan’s auto industry to lead the world, creating more jobs for our workers. In Congress, I will form an Autonomous Vehicle Caucus, bringing together fellow policy-makers interested in driving this important part of our future economy.

Is Michael Bay running?

[Shofercia]

Nope nope nope. Hate this guy now. He’s buying into Silicon Valley’s stupidity.

What's wrong with autonomous vehicles? There's a lot of people who can't drive for many reasons who'll have the means to get places once we've perfected the technology.

For starters - distance driving. You need to oscillate between keeping a safe distance and ensuring no one cuts you off. And sometimes you'll have to make a judgement call, based on experience. Because of attorneys, the autonomous vehicles must always keep a safe distance. That means that anyone can cut them off, thus slowing down their lanes of driving, which in turn would ensure that the drivers behind autonomous vehicles are more stressed, (since their lane is slowest,) and are likely to make unnecessary lane changes, thus increasing the likelihood of accidents.

[Corrian]

I could posit instead a society where automation is sufficiently advanced that there has ceased to be any need for humans to labour at any task at all, and that in this society it does not make sense for people's access to goods and services to depend on what tasks they labour at. I could point out that this would have to lead to a pseudo-communist society where the means of production are collectively owned, but where there are no longer workers. I could tell you that in such a society, we would all have unlimited free time to pursue whatever interest took our fancy.

But if you're going to actively shut down all thought when you recognise a phrase or idea because "It's a meme!" then maybe all I'd be doing is wasting my time.

*checks watch*

Better than nothing, I guess.

I would love the ability to be free to travel the world whenever the hell I want. It would be amazing.

[Washington Resistance Army]

>implying the guy who owns the machines that will do that will just let you use them for free

Uh friendo I hate to break it to you but that's not how it works, and truthfully that would probably be more expensive than just getting construction workers to do it.

That's how it works now. What makes you think that the guy who owns the machines will continue to own the machines?

Because the guy owns the machines will have a lot of money and will hire Blackwater to kill you if you try and take them. He'll also be able to throw around stupid amounts of money in politics and we all know how great that is at preventing things from happening.

I could posit instead a society where automation is sufficiently advanced that there has ceased to be any need for humans to labour at any task at all, and that in this society it does not make sense for people's access to goods and services to depend on what tasks they labour at. I could point out that this would have to lead to a pseudo-communist society where the means of production are collectively owned, but where there are no longer workers. I could tell you that in such a society, we would all have unlimited free time to pursue whatever interest took our fancy.

You'd also be stuck in abject poverty because you have no money to pay for anything because your boss decided it was cheaper to fire you and replace you with a machine and we still happen to live in a consumerist capitalist society. The government doesn't have enough money to pay for everyone and just praying and hoping for a utopia to crop up is pretty much tantamount to just saying we should commit national suicide because it's the same as saying we should just do nothing. Lots of people are going to start losing jobs over the next few decades (nearly 40% are at high risk according to CNN over the next 15 years) while CEO's and stockholders keep getting more and more rich at their expense and frankly I don't see you as one of the violent "murder them and their families and seize the wealth!" types so I'm struggling to see how large scale automation would in any way be a beneficial thing to the common man.

Like really, do you think that 40% (which will almost certainly keep growing as the technology keeps getting better) will just magically be taken care of and be able to just sit around and make art or some shit all day? What's your plan and how are you going to pay for it? UBI isn't going to work and the chances of the unemployed just somehow getting all the machines is pretty damn silly to throw around without a serious real world plan to back it up. Pretty much the only way automation ends is with the rich getting richer at everyone elses expense unless we kill it soon.

[Thermodolia]

How about I’d rather we don’t have 51% unemployment.

Well, the future is coming if you like it or not.

That future doesn’t have to be 60% unemployment

[Corrian]

Well, the future is coming if you like it or not.

That future doesn’t have to be 60% unemployment

Well, it probably will be.

[Washington Resistance Army]

That future doesn’t have to be 60% unemployment

Well, it probably will be.

And we should be taking steps now to prevent that, even if it means banning most forms of automation and nationalizing companies that try to do it.

[Corrian]

Well, it probably will be.

And we should be taking steps now to prevent that, even if it means banning most forms of automation and nationalizing companies that try to do it.

Nah.

[Washington Resistance Army]

And we should be taking steps now to prevent that, even if it means banning most forms of automation and nationalizing companies that try to do it.

Nah.

So, what's your plan to deal with it in that case?

[Corrian]

Nah.

So, what's your plan to deal with it in that case?

Honestly in the short term? Not entirely sure. There will definitely need to be cheaper (Or free) access to college so we could have, for the ones that can handle it, a highly educated society which would honestly just evolve things even faster if you ask me. Long term I would say the very concept of money would begin to go out the window as automation takes over every aspect of our job market.

I am fully aware that none of this will probably go that way, but hey.

[Washington Resistance Army]

So, what's your plan to deal with it in that case?

Honestly in the short term? Not entirely sure. There will definitely need to be cheaper (Or free) access to college so we could have, for the ones that can handle it, a highly educated society which would honestly just evolve things even faster if you ask me. Long term I would say the very concept of money would begin to go out the window as automation takes over every aspect of our job market.

I am fully aware that none of this will probably go that way, but hey.

In which case just saying "nah" to any plans to try and prevent it from happening is a mind boggling position to take.