Should Siberia become independent?

[Kramanica]

This would be Siberia,
I'd imagine.

Essentially most of the territory of Russia.

Ahh, ok. Well those regions definitely don't want independence.

So, the country that sits there menacingly with somewhat minor territorial disputes (compared to Russia) and occasionally kills international journalists and politicians is worse than the country that actively forcefully occupies/has integrated puppet states in large sections of the territory of it's neighbors, and often kills/poisons international journalists and politicians?

Really?

Again, can we ask the people of Crimea, South Ossetia, Abkhazia, (which Russia doesn't actually occupy, but who cares about facts when there's propaganda,) etc, if they view what the Russians are doing as an occupation? As for often killing international journalists, since you claim it's often, well, once a month could be often, so please list 120 international journalists that Russia killed since 2009. It's hilarious when people whine/act outraged about Human Rights, and then turn around and completely ignore Referendum Rights when it no longer benefits their needs.

I have little doubt that they don't. Siberia as a country would probably fail drastically and just end up becoming a Chinese protectorate anyway. That would be worse than having them remain as part of Ivan.

[The Provincial Union of the Pacific]

They are probably safe and like it that way since if someone invaded them then Russia would defend them and right now they can basically do whatever they want, the enjoyable part of a massive country is the blessing that the national-level government doesn't care enough about what happens there to do something about it.

The people are clearly apathetic to their situation and for that reason would likely oppose change, especially that of moving them from an 'apathetic' government to a dictatorship like China where they would be surrounded by now Chinese and Mongolians, since Siberia is 'close enough' to Mongolia and was very close to the Mongol Empire, they already have a high population of Mongolians who may not like the Chinese for their nice wall they built.

Not to mention that they like being Russians, they are memed and feared because they are known to be [big tough and lift twelve logs with one woman while america lift one log with twelve marines, weak americans.
(Intended to be read with Russian Accent)]

And Russians don't have aspirations pfft, they like to live in nice calm conditions and grow potatoes, now if you asked them during the USSR, I imagine they'd be a bit more inclined to cede to maybe Mongolia, but never China.

And China used to be clean and open as well, Siberians don't want that changing.

-I've known Siberians(One Mongolian) in the past and based on what they brag about when bragging about it, I assumed this is what they'd feel.

[Shofercia]

But why can't Crimeans be with Russia, if that's what they genuinely want?

Why couldn't the Chechens be independent, if that's what they want? (or at least, wanted)

Was there ever a referendum held there after the war(s) were over to decide if they wanted independence?

The Chechens should've had independence in 1994, partly because they let the Ingush go. I disagreed with the First Chechen War. However, in the late 1990s, after the 1996 ceasefire, Chechnya was taken over by Wahhabi Terrorists, who launched an unprovoked attack against Dagestan. British Historian Richard Sakwa documented the atrocities committed by IIPB, which acted very much like ISIS. That's what started the Second Chechen War, and ended the Chechen Independence.

After being at war for almost two decades, Chechnya was, arguably, in no shape for a Referendum. War ended, officially, in 2009. Ten years is long enough for reconstruction, so if the Chechens want to hold a Referendum on Independence in 2019, I'd support that. It's an area where I realize I might disagree with Russia's Government.

[The Greater Atlantic States]

Why couldn't the Chechens be independent, if that's what they want? (or at least, wanted)

Was there ever a referendum held there after the war(s) were over to decide if they wanted independence?

The Chechens should've had independence in 1994, partly because they let the Ingush go. I disagreed with the First Chechen War. However, in the late 1990s, after the 1996 ceasefire, Chechnya was taken over by Wahhabi Terrorists, who launched an unprovoked attack against Dagestan. British Historian Richard Sakwa documented the atrocities committed by IIPB, which acted very much like ISIS. That's what started the Second Chechen War, and ended the Chechen Independence.

After being at war for almost two decades, Chechnya was, arguably, in no shape for a Referendum. War ended, officially, in 2009. Ten years is long enough for reconstruction, so if the Chechens want to hold a Referendum on Independence in 2019, I'd support that. It's an area where I realize I might disagree with Russia's Government.

Fair enough.

[The South Falls]

Also, why would Russia let their breadbasket go? It's like if we sold McD's to a Chinese holding company.

[Shofercia]

In my personal opinion that is Not a good idea, consider that Moscow is the business center of the Russian federation, they would need to start all over again with their economy, and China would glance at their resources, and there are many Nationalities
( as Russians, Buryats, Tuvinians, Yakuts, and Siberian Tatars )
and I don't sure they would like to work together because of cultural differences, 40 million people can't control 13 million kilometer easily, it's very difficult for Russia to keep it 17 million kilometers with just 150 million people, it's better for them to stay a part of Russia, they have Auotonomy to practice their faith and traditions, and to speak their language alongside with Russian, so I don't see reason for independent Siberia

Actually, Moscow just exploits Siberia, and provides little assistance to Siberia other than military force.

There is nothing Moscow can do that other countries, whether it be China or America, can do.

Actually, there is. Russia can prevent other countries from taking over Siberia. Neither China, nor America, can prevent other countries, from taking over Siberia.

Ahh, ok. Well those regions definitely don't want independence.

I have little doubt that they don't. Siberia as a country would probably fail drastically and just end up becoming a Chinese protectorate anyway. That would be worse than having them remain as part of Ivan.

In addition to what you said, if one was to look at Siberian Demographics, he or she would find out that most of the Siberians are ethnic Russians. For instance, looking at the most populous part of the Siberian Federal District, Krasnoyarsk Krai, one realizes that 91% of the population are ethnic Russians. In Kemerovo Oblast, that figure's at 94%, in Novosibirsk Oblast, it's at 93%, in Altai Krai it's at 94%, and so on...

[Belshekistan]

Siberia is Russian. Siberia will remain Russian. That will never change. A situation such as the one you described would end in the destruction of the rebels and of china at least, besides which I highly doubt Siberia would even want independence.

[Rakdai]

Also, why would Russia let their breadbasket go? It's like if we sold McD's to a Chinese holding company.

Russia has plenty of agricultural land.

[The South Falls]

Siberia is Russian. Siberia will remain Russian. That will never change. A situation such as the one you described would end in the destruction of the rebels and of china at least, besides which I highly doubt Siberia would even want independence.

Three people, a snowmobile, and Rasputin aren't enough to vote on independence.

[The South Falls]

Also, why would Russia let their breadbasket go? It's like if we sold McD's to a Chinese holding company.

Russia has plenty of agricultural land.

Siberia has oil, coal. It's not their literal breadbasket. But it might as well be.

[Rakdai]

Russia has plenty of agricultural land.

Siberia has oil, coal. It's not their literal breadbasket. But it might as well be.

European Russia still has oil.

[The South Falls]

Siberia has oil, coal. It's not their literal breadbasket. But it might as well be.

European Russia still has oil.

Not as much oil. It's also been depleted more in the west.

[Dogmeat]

All is rightful Buryat clay.

The Khan in the North!

[Saiwania]

Siberia in general, is too inhospitable for human settlement to be practical as an independent nation. It only works if it is annexed to a more powerful nation with a capital that has the resources to administer far away places. Plenty of developed nations have overseas places that wouldn't function any other way but as a dependent territory such as Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha and the UK. Russia is the same, only different in that it is geographically a contiguous power. The mostly empty and remote spaces Russia has, it is instead directly attached to the more livable and desirable portions of Russia which is the supply lifeline to those undesirable places to live.

[Shofercia]

All is rightful Buryat clay.

The Khan in the North!

Demographics of Buryatia from the 2010 Census:

630,783 Russians
286,839 Buryats
37,380 Others

According to the OP's crazy theory, Siberian Russians are somehow different from ethnic Russians and should secede because some posters on the Internet have feelings. Please don't encourage the OP with unlabeled sarcasm

[Dogmeat]

All is rightful Buryat clay.

The Khan in the North!

Demographics of Buryatia from the 2010 Census:

630,783 Russians
286,839 Buryats
37,380 Others

According to the OP's crazy theory, Siberian Russians are somehow different from ethnic Russians and should secede because some posters on the Internet have feelings. Please don't encourage the OP with unlabeled sarcasm

The Russian sense of humor folks.

[The South Falls]

Demographics of Buryatia from the 2010 Census:

630,783 Russians
286,839 Buryats
37,380 Others

According to the OP's crazy theory, Siberian Russians are somehow different from ethnic Russians and should secede because some posters on the Internet have feelings. Please don't encourage the OP with unlabeled sarcasm

The Russian sense of humor folks.

In Russia, humor senses you!

[The Lone Alliance]

I doubt the people in Siberia wouldn't like it anyway. Not to mention that a country like that could easily fall under Chinese influence.

Actually, your first statement isn't true. Siberians have been wanting at least partial independence for a while.

But the second one is right, but what's wrong with that?

Because China wouldn't increase their living standards either, they'll just take the resources and if there is any money, it'll go to the Chinese Nationals who'll move in.

Basically you think China colonizing Siberia and giving the Siberians the Colonial treatment would be an improvement... In reality nothing would fucking change.

Besides Russia will not give up Siberia, Japan tried that in 1938 and Russia killed them enough that Japan decided picking a fight with America was a better idea.

[Oil exporting People]

I was reading several articles about how Siberia is constantly being drained for oil, coal, timber, and other minerals, as well as giving huge taxes, and the government gives very few rubles for the governments to use to increase the living standards.

Obviously, Siberia would have a sparse population, as well as a small defense, and other countries may want to invade. An alliance with China would solve that. China has a shrinking habitable area, and the habitable area is heavily polluted. China can provide protection for Siberia, and Siberia can be a place for immigrants from China to slow its overpopulation.

What do you guys think?

In other words China would annex Siberia. The obvious answer to such delusions of allowing this to occur is deploy the Cossacks.

[Rakdai]

Besides Russia will not give up Siberia, Japan tried that in 1938 and Russia killed them enough that Japan decided picking a fight with America was a better idea.

It ended up as a Japanese Victory though. They took half of Sakhalin, and the Kuril Islands.

Also, all I'm saying is that Siberia would do better as a seperate country than part of Russia. If you patriots want it to be allied with the US, it'll be the same for me.

[The South Falls]

I was reading several articles about how Siberia is constantly being drained for oil, coal, timber, and other minerals, as well as giving huge taxes, and the government gives very few rubles for the governments to use to increase the living standards.

Obviously, Siberia would have a sparse population, as well as a small defense, and other countries may want to invade. An alliance with China would solve that. China has a shrinking habitable area, and the habitable area is heavily polluted. China can provide protection for Siberia, and Siberia can be a place for immigrants from China to slow its overpopulation.

What do you guys think?

In other words China would annex Siberia. The obvious answer to such delusions of allowing this to occur is deploy the Cossacks.

The Cossacks are weak. Centuries of not serving the Tsar has made them non-allegient to Russia. They can be bought.

[Rakdai]

Also, to you people who think Siberia is a barren, devoid tundra, a lot of Siberia is like midrange Canada, the Baltic countries and Scandinavia, and the UK.

[Scomagia]

The OP's proposal sounds pretty dismal. Siberia escapes Russian domination only to fall prey to Chinese domination. Considering the history of minority mistreatment in China, I definitely wouldn't envy the eventual fate of the Siberians.

[Oil exporting People]

In other words China would annex Siberia. The obvious answer to such delusions of allowing this to occur is deploy the Cossacks.

The Cossacks are weak. Centuries of not serving the Tsar has made them non-allegient to Russia. They can be bought.

Where is the evidence for this? Admittedly ancedotal but has everyone forgotten that video from like a year or two ago where those two Cossacks beat the fuck out of some Americans in Moscow?

[Strength and Order]

No, that's what money-driven Western media want you to believe. I literally had to explain this in my own region a while ago, it's all just paranoia by people who capitalize on sensationalism.

So, the country that sits there menacingly with somewhat minor territorial disputes (compared to Russia) and occasionally kills international journalists and politicians is worse than the country that actively forcefully occupies/has integrated puppet states in large sections of the territory of it's neighbors, and often kills/poisons international journalists and politicians?

Really?

I actually had to explain why Russia isn't a threat to the West on my region's RMB rather recently, so let me just bring that up:

Why? Because I don't buy into the fearmongering trash about how the Russians are going to overrun Europe? Sorry if I don't believe sensationalist Western media, but you're right. I'm American, so I know something about the media how it works. "The Russians are going to do this!", "The Russians are going to do that!"

The Russians haven't done a damn thing but occupy a province that had no problem with being occupied, and supporting a secessionist movement just enough to keep it alive but not enough for it to win - both in the same country. But suddenly we should expect Russian tanks steamrolling through Berlin for the second time in history? Need I remind you this whole incident occurred four years ago, and quite literally nothing has happened since then. Where are the big bad Russians? I thought they were poised to conquer the entire continent? I thought they were gearing up to take on the Baltics? I thought they were going to invade Georgia again? For all this talk of the 'Russian Menace', they aren't very menacing. Putin's been in power in one way or another since 1999 and this is all he's done? Yet we're supposed to believe he's Genghis Khan or something?

Bull. It's all bull.

It's not a pretty argument, but it gets the point across. The Russians have barely done jack shit in the last two decades, and yet we should expect Russian tanks steamrolling over Europe any day now. Meanwhile China quite literally has the U.S. - the most powerful nation on Earth - by the economic balls. Not to mention Chinese hackers make Russian hackers look like kids using console commands in Skyrim.