Right Wing Discussion Thread XIII: Do the Right thing

[The Eternal Aulus]

Jews weren't a nation until the state of Israel was created. They didn't have a common language, common culture, or common territory.

That's a bit debatable.

A nation is defined as "a stable community of people, formed on the basis of a common language, territory, economic life, ethnicity, or psychological make-up manifested in a common culture."

Prior to the establishment of Israel, Jews did form internally stable communities within larger communities on the basis of common religion, a common liturgical language, a common economic life, a common ethnicity, and a common psychological make-up. Even the centrality of Israel to their identity could be perceived as embodying a common territory shared by all Jewish people regardless of their current location in the world. You'd have to quibble to assert that Jews weren't a nation in any sense prior to the establishment of Israel by emphasizing their lack of an immediately inhabited and sovereign territory and their different everyday languages.

I agree with this. The jews literally had their own nation, millet, in the Ottoman Empire.

[Demopolitania]

As an anti-zionist, I believe that Jews are a quintessential national group and that other cultural/national groups should look to contemporary and historical Jewish communities for clues as to how to organize themselves successfully. I simply don't believe in the idea that any nation which is not an indigenous tribe can have the exclusive right to large swathes of territory(maybe a temple or two). National Personal Autonomy

That's a bit debatable.

A nation is defined as "a stable community of people, formed on the basis of a common language, territory, economic life, ethnicity, or psychological make-up manifested in a common culture."

Prior to the establishment of Israel, Jews did form internally stable communities within larger communities on the basis of common religion, a common liturgical language, a common economic life, a common ethnicity, and a common psychological make-up. Even the centrality of Israel to their identity could be perceived as embodying a common territory shared by all Jewish people regardless of their current location in the world. You'd have to quibble to assert that Jews weren't a nation in any sense prior to the establishment of Israel by emphasizing their lack of an immediately inhabited and sovereign territory and their different everyday languages.

I agree with this. The jews literally had their own nation, millet, in the Ottoman Empire.

As an anti-zionist, I believe that Jews are a quintessential national group and that other cultural/national groups should look to contemporary and historical Jewish communities for clues as to how to organize themselves successfully. I simply don't believe in the idea that any nation which is not an indigenous tribe can have the exclusive right to large swathes of territory(maybe a temple or two). National Personal Autonomy is a much better for nations in general than Westphalian Sovereignty.

[Fahran]

As an anti-zionist, I believe that Jews are a quintessential national group and that other cultural/national groups should look to contemporary and historical Jewish communities for clues as to how to organize themselves successfully. I simply don't believe in the idea that any nation which is not an indigenous tribe can have the exclusive right to large swathes of territory(maybe a temple or two).

1.) As an adjective, indigenous denotes the quality of "originating or occurring naturally in a particular place." The Jews originated as a distinct ethnic group, albeit not perhaps a nation at that time, in the territories comprising Israel and the peripheries of Jordan and Egypt. It is not then inaccurate to describe Jews as being indigenous to Israel.

2.) The Jews do not proclaim an exclusive right, at least not in an unqualified way, to the territories comprising modern Israel. They do claim those territories as part of their nation-state, but that's a somewhat pertinent distinction. Arabs and other ethnic minorities may and do inhabit Israel. Muslims, not Jews, possess de jure authority over the Temple Mount with the exclusion of the Western Wall.

National Personal Autonomy...

This idea didn't work in Russia or Yugoslavia, and generally served to legitimize Russian and Serbian cultural hegemony. Occasionally, all pretenses were dropped and ethnic minorities were actively persecuted.

[Painisia]

Tarsonis in a nutshell:

https://youtu.be/hg6d3wA0OVw?t=27

[Demopolitania]

As an anti-zionist, I believe that Jews are a quintessential national group and that other cultural/national groups should look to contemporary and historical Jewish communities for clues as to how to organize themselves successfully. I simply don't believe in the idea that any nation which is not an indigenous tribe can have the exclusive right to large swathes of territory(maybe a temple or two).

1.) As an adjective, indigenous denotes the quality of "originating or occurring naturally in a particular place." The Jews originated as a distinct ethnic group, albeit not perhaps a nation at that time, in the territories comprising Israel and the peripheries of Jordan and Egypt. It is not then inaccurate to describe Jews as being indigenous to Israel.

2.) The Jews do not proclaim an exclusive right, at least not in an unqualified way, to the territories comprising modern Israel. They do claim those territories as part of their nation-state, but that's a somewhat pertinent distinction. Arabs and other ethnic minorities may and do inhabit Israel. Muslims, not Jews, possess de jure authority over the Temple Mount with the exclusion of the Western Wall.

National Personal Autonomy...

This idea didn't work in Russia or Yugoslavia, and generally served to legitimize Russian and Serbian cultural hegemony. Occasionally, all pretenses were dropped and ethnic minorities were actively persecuted.

To me, indigenous also denotes hunter-gatherer/horticultural society. Agrarian and post-agrarian societies originate from technology and tend to be at odds with the land the lands they occupy.

Non-white Jews, Arabs, Druze, Africans, and other non-white people all end up as de facto second-, third-, or fourth-class citizens somewhere on Israel's spectrum of subhumanity. Nation-states were designed as tools for specific institutions to exert hegemony over specific cultural groups, they are inherently predisposed to the oppression of out-groups.

The examples you cite didn't work because those countries were nation-states and much like Israel only adopted the language of equality and toleration as a thin veneer to disguise the realities of ethnocentric oppression. They were no more experiments in National Personal Autonomy than North Korea is a experiment in democracy.

[Oil exporting People]

Day is apparently International Pronoun Day and my University definitely wants me to know it. As part of an email we got today, we all received a lesson in said pronouns. Some highlights include:

ze - hir – hir
ze - zem – zir
ey - eir - em

The mental illness gets better with this line: "Remember a person’s identity does not rely on your understanding the pronouns they prefer."

I repeat my earlier statement that the South should've won.

[El-Amin Caliphate]

Day is apparently International Pronoun Day and my University definitely wants me to know it. As part of an email we got today, we all received a lesson in said pronouns. Some highlights include:

ze - hir – hir
ze - zem – zir
ey - eir - em

The mental illness gets better with this line: "Remember a person’s identity does not rely on your understanding the pronouns they prefer."

I repeat my earlier statement that the South should've won.

By saying that you're also saying that slavery should've prevailed.

[Oil exporting People]

Day is apparently International Pronoun Day and my University definitely wants me to know it. As part of an email we got today, we all received a lesson in said pronouns. Some highlights include:

ze - hir – hir
ze - zem – zir
ey - eir - em

The mental illness gets better with this line: "Remember a person’s identity does not rely on your understanding the pronouns they prefer."

I repeat my earlier statement that the South should've won.

By saying that you're also saying that slavery should've prevailed.

if you wish to view it as such, sure, but that's an obfuscation of the main point.

[Northeast American Federation]

Day is apparently International Pronoun Day and my University definitely wants me to know it. As part of an email we got today, we all received a lesson in said pronouns. Some highlights include:

ze - hir – hir
ze - zem – zir
ey - eir - em

The mental illness gets better with this line: "Remember a person’s identity does not rely on your understanding the pronouns they prefer."

I repeat my earlier statement that the South should've won.

The south winning wouldn't have stopped this from being a thing some 170 or thereabouts years later.

[Oil exporting People]

Day is apparently International Pronoun Day and my University definitely wants me to know it. As part of an email we got today, we all received a lesson in said pronouns. Some highlights include:

ze - hir – hir
ze - zem – zir
ey - eir - em

The mental illness gets better with this line: "Remember a person’s identity does not rely on your understanding the pronouns they prefer."

I repeat my earlier statement that the South should've won.

The south winning wouldn't have stopped this from being a thing some 170 or thereabouts years later.

Around the world? Maybe it wouldn't have. Here in my native South, however, it definitely would have.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Day is apparently International Pronoun Day and my University definitely wants me to know it. As part of an email we got today, we all received a lesson in said pronouns. Some highlights include:

ze - hir – hir
ze - zem – zir
ey - eir - em

The mental illness gets better with this line: "Remember a person’s identity does not rely on your understanding the pronouns they prefer."

I repeat my earlier statement that the South should've won.

Over here in DI's land of peak respectability politics, if someone asks to be referred to by anything other than "he", "she", or "they" they get my special "go - fuck - yourself" pronoun set.

[Oil exporting People]

Day is apparently International Pronoun Day and my University definitely wants me to know it. As part of an email we got today, we all received a lesson in said pronouns. Some highlights include:

ze - hir – hir
ze - zem – zir
ey - eir - em

The mental illness gets better with this line: "Remember a person’s identity does not rely on your understanding the pronouns they prefer."

I repeat my earlier statement that the South should've won.

Over here in DI's land of peak respectability politics, if someone asks to be referred to by anything other than "he", "she", or "they" they get my special "go - fuck - yourself" pronoun set.

This is why I like you DI.

[Mattopilos II]

Day is apparently International Pronoun Day and my University definitely wants me to know it. As part of an email we got today, we all received a lesson in said pronouns. Some highlights include:

ze - hir – hir
ze - zem – zir
ey - eir - em

The mental illness gets better with this line: "Remember a person’s identity does not rely on your understanding the pronouns they prefer."

I repeat my earlier statement that the South should've won.

Over here in DI's land of peak respectability politics, if someone asks to be referred to by anything other than "he", "she", or "they" they get my special "go - fuck - yourself" pronoun set.

I would say I’m shocked but I would be lying.

[Greater Cesnica]

I need to take a breather here, since IDT is giving me cancer.

Do you guys believe that the United States should sever ties with Saudi Arabia over the Khashoggi Crisis? Not that it would happen, but hypothetically.

[The South Falls]

I need to take a breather here, since IDT is giving me cancer.

Do you guys believe that the United States should sever ties with Saudi Arabia over the Khashoggi Crisis? Not that it would happen, but hypothetically.

I mean, retracting most ties would be in our best interest. We don't need to be with Saudi Arabia, except for the oil. Beyond that, we don't need them. If we let Saudi Arabia be, (with total evidence they killed Khashoggi) then we'd be looking dependent upon them, and we're not.

[Uxupox]

I need to take a breather here, since IDT is giving me cancer.

Do you guys believe that the United States should sever ties with Saudi Arabia over the Khashoggi Crisis? Not that it would happen, but hypothetically.

If we want to still assert control over some portions of the Middle East then no. If you don’t care about geopolitics then full speed ahead.

[The South Falls]

I need to take a breather here, since IDT is giving me cancer.

Do you guys believe that the United States should sever ties with Saudi Arabia over the Khashoggi Crisis? Not that it would happen, but hypothetically.

If we want to still assert control over some portions of the Middle East then no. If you don’t care about geopolitics then full speed ahead.

Iran's still in our pocket. And anyway:


Atrocities & All Control < No Atrocities & Some Control

[Kaggeceria]

That NPC meme sure triggered a lot of people, it's fucking hysterical.

Its glorious.

[Genivaria]

I need to take a breather here, since IDT is giving me cancer.

Do you guys believe that the United States should sever ties with Saudi Arabia over the Khashoggi Crisis? Not that it would happen, but hypothetically.

We should've severed ties with them ages ago.
I'm on record saying that we should support the Hashemites claim to Arabia.

[Mattopilos II]

That NPC meme sure triggered a lot of people, it's fucking hysterical.

Its glorious.

I love how people still like using triggered, the same people who usually masturabate to marines or the army.

[Uxupox]

If we want to still assert control over some portions of the Middle East then no. If you don’t care about geopolitics then full speed ahead.

Iran's still in our pocket. And anyway:


Atrocities & All Control < No Atrocities & Some Control

Iran in our pocket? What?

In a perfect world? Sure but that isn’t American international policy since 1945 and it won’t be changing any time soon.

[Uxupox]

I need to take a breather here, since IDT is giving me cancer.

Do you guys believe that the United States should sever ties with Saudi Arabia over the Khashoggi Crisis? Not that it would happen, but hypothetically.

We should've severed ties with them ages ago.
I'm on record saying that we should support the Hashemites claim to Arabia.

Th Hashemites are hated to a similar level of Israel. It wouldn’t have ended well.

[Genivaria]

We should've severed ties with them ages ago.
I'm on record saying that we should support the Hashemites claim to Arabia.

Th Hashemites are hated to a similar level of Israel. It wouldn’t have ended well.

How's that?

[Torrocca]

That NPC meme sure triggered a lot of people, it's fucking hysterical.

Yeah, it really dug under a lotta Rightist skins when it got turned around against them. :^)

Oh, wait, you're talking about Leftists who supposedly got triggered because you just love constantly attacking the Monolith of The Left despite painting yourself as a Leftist even though it's pretty obvious you're more or less not one whatsoever. Nevermind.

[Proctopeo]

That NPC meme sure triggered a lot of people, it's fucking hysterical.

Yeah, it really dug under a lotta Rightist skins when it got turned around against them. :^)

Oh, wait, you're talking about Leftists who supposedly got triggered because you just love constantly attacking the Monolith of The Left despite painting yourself as a Leftist even though it's pretty obvious you're more or less not one whatsoever. Nevermind.

Tbf it got under a lot of people's skins on both sides. I saw most of the butthurt come from the left, though.
It seemed to particularly upset liberal-leftist-ish Twitter, though, despite them not cracking down any on rampant accusations of people being "Russian bots", which is equally dehumanizing. Since dehumanization is their story for Twitter's staff's dismay at the term, it's most definitely not their full reasoning.