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Should heavy metal be banned?

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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:07 am

Reploid Productions wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:I did not even know "Folk Metal" was a thing. Seriously?

Enjoy! And the least expected of metal instrumentation... BAGPIPES! (Haven't listened to Eluveitie in ages, thanks for the reminder!)

I have a deep-seated hatred for bagpipes, I say that as a Scot living in Scotland, and I actually know a lot of other people who feel the same way.
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Postby Hurdergaryp » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:21 am

Immoren wrote:
Pope Joan wrote:I did not even know "Folk Metal" was a thing. Seriously?

I sure love fiddle solo amids my metal session.

Folk metal has been a thing since the early nineties at least, for the British band Skyclad released its debut album "The Wayward Sons Of Mother Earth" in 1991.


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Postby Tekania » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:06 am

Racist Commonwelath of East Virginia wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:No.

Studies have actually found that, contrary to views that it is nihilistic and harmful, heavy metal may help people process negative emotions and purge anger and depression.

It's a news link, but it says this:

Leah Sharman from the University of Queensland's School of Psychology is researching the impact of music on society.

She said a study of 39 adults aged between 18 and 34 found they were inspired and calmer when they listened to heavy metal.


So, probably not harmful. May actually help.

Also, free expression.


Roll on September.



Queensland is not a decent university. American academy of pediatrics is superior and more trustworthy than liberal dominated academics looking for a headline.


If you actual read the AAP's "study" (I use the term loosely) it's nothing but cite after cite of correlations and established absolutely nothing in the way of any cause-effect relationship to back conclusion.
Last edited by Tekania on Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:18 am

Tekania wrote:
Racist Commonwelath of East Virginia wrote:

Queensland is not a decent university. American academy of pediatrics is superior and more trustworthy than liberal dominated academics looking for a headline.


If you actual read the AAP's "study" (I use the term loosely) it's nothing but cite after cite of correlations and established absolutely nothing in the way of any cause-effect relationship to back conclusion.

Can you provide a link to the AAP study, please? I've asked the OP for the link twice, and they haven't provided it (for reasons that become ever more obvious with your post).

I'm usually a quick searcher, but I can't seem to find this one.
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Postby Hurdergaryp » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:32 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
Tekania wrote:
If you actual read the AAP's "study" (I use the term loosely) it's nothing but cite after cite of correlations and established absolutely nothing in the way of any cause-effect relationship to back conclusion.

Can you provide a link to the AAP study, please? I've asked the OP for the link twice, and they haven't provided it (for reasons that become ever more obvious with your post).

I'm usually a quick searcher, but I can't seem to find this one.

Does the AAP even exist, or is this one of those institutions that are only mentioned in fake news articles put online for covert agitprop purposes?


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Postby Dylar » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:35 am

Hurdergaryp wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:Can you provide a link to the AAP study, please? I've asked the OP for the link twice, and they haven't provided it (for reasons that become ever more obvious with your post).

I'm usually a quick searcher, but I can't seem to find this one.

Does the AAP even exist, or is this one of those institutions that are only mentioned in fake news articles put online for covert agitprop purposes?

It exists mainly for child healthcare stuffs.
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Postby The Free Joy State » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:38 am

Dylar wrote:
Hurdergaryp wrote:Does the AAP even exist, or is this one of those institutions that are only mentioned in fake news articles put online for covert agitprop purposes?

It exists mainly for child healthcare stuffs.

That link I found. I found a few generic music studies, mostly analyses of other people's work -- there was one from 1996 (but that 22 year old thing can't be what the OP meant) -- but I didn't find any actual study specific to heavy metal.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Dylar » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:41 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
Dylar wrote:It exists mainly for child healthcare stuffs.

That link I found. I found a few generic music studies, mostly analyses of other people's work -- there was one from 1996 (but that 22 year old study can't be what the OP meant) -- but I didn't find any study specific to heavy metal.

Hang on, I think I found it Unless you already saw this one, that is.
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Postby Hurdergaryp » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:43 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
Dylar wrote:It exists mainly for child healthcare stuffs.

That I found. I found a few generic music studies, mostly analyses of other people's work -- there was one from 1996 (but that 22 year old study can't be what the OP meant) -- but I didn't find anything specific to heavy metal.

Lots of articles on heavy metal poisoning on the site, actually. You know, like the actual metals. Also there is this specific article, which may or may not be what the OP referred to.


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Postby The Free Joy State » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:47 am

Dylar wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:That link I found. I found a few generic music studies, mostly analyses of other people's work -- there was one from 1996 (but that 22 year old study can't be what the OP meant) -- but I didn't find any study specific to heavy metal.

Hang on, I think I found it Unless you already saw this one, that is.

I read that one. It does a surface analysis of studies, but it's pretty basic. There's no evidence of causation (just discusses changing tastes in music and broad social trends that will surprise pretty much no-one).

It singles out metal and rap among other music, but doesn't suggest banning it, merely that parents should be aware of what music their children are into, regulate T.V. viewing according to the maturity of the child (which still isn't banning it, as no six year old should probably be listening to death metal anyway), and that music producers should make more music that promotes positive values.

That's pretty much it.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:55 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Hurdergaryp » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:06 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
Dylar wrote:Hang on, I think I found it Unless you already saw this one, that is.

I read that one. It does a surface analysis of studies, but it's pretty basic. There's no evidence of causation (just discusses changing tastes in music and broad social trends that will surprise pretty much no-one).

It singles out metal and rap among other music, but doesn't suggest banning it, merely that parents should be aware of what music their children are into, regulate T.V. viewing according to the maturity of the child (which still isn't banning it, as no six year old should probably be listening to death metal anyway), and that music producers should make more music that promotes positive values.

That's pretty much it.

It was all the motivation our adorable little OP needed in order to flip out and demand the permanent banishment of metal music, a draconian measure fully supported by a respectable all-American institution. Let's ignore the fact that the article was actually the work of Dutch researchers, because that would defeat the purpose. Mind you, I think that OP didn't actually bother to read that article, his attempt at starting a fierce diatribe was probably inspired by some conservative blog or a bunch of tweets. And those, as most people know, tend to be sources that are ridiculed immensely and enthusiastically whenever they are used to drive a point home.


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Postby -United Republic of Freedonia » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:15 pm

Pope Joan wrote:-snip-

hey, thank you for that list, i'll check them out someday

good stuff. This is now your theme song of my headcannon-ish saga of the NS mods.

instead of going against metal, this thread got me more into it.
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Postby Ratateague » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:02 pm

Metal should definitely never be banned. There will always be those puritanical religious groups that go out of their way to cherrypick titles, lyrics, satanic themes, and certain subgenres in order to illustrate a demon that has to be addressed. That is a gross misrepresentation of the totality of metal. It can be wicked, it can be righteous, it can be mysterious. I can't stress enough how positive, moving, and uplifting metal can be! And I can't agree enough with the finding that metal alleviates negative emotions. Being one of the Power / Progressive / Neoclassical camp, I shy away from most of the dark, harsh, growly, or shrieking sounds that's found in those "ebil metal" subgenres (with the exception of some Goth, Doom/Stoner, and Avante-Garde metal). Just listen to Angra, Sonata Arctica, or Symphony X. Some of it borders on the religious, what you'd expect from some progressive worship music, only listenable!

I even remember what got me into metal: Power Rangers. That's right, Ron Wasserman really knew how to shred on children's TV!

Pope Joan wrote:These 25 subgenres come from a listing at the metalinjection website.

You would need to do a forced-choice approach to arrive at who to ban first. Seriously, some of this approaches elevator music!

Alternative Metal – Basically late 90s, early 00 radio rock like Korn, Disturbed and Papa Roach
Nu Metal – Korn is listed here again, obviously, other acts include Drowning Pool, Mudvayne, Sevendust
Hard Rock – This seems to mean classic rock like Van Halen, Whitesnake and Ted Nugent.
Groove Metal Modern mainstream metal like Machine Head, Trivium and Devildriver
Rap Metal – Not sure how this differs from nu metal, but featured acts include Linkin Park, POD, Limp Bizkit
Funk Metal – Faith No More, Rage Against The Machine, Red Hot Chili Peppers amongst the listed acts.
Metal – aka VH1 classic metal, like Iron Maiden, King Diamond and Motorhead
Metalcore – Warped Tour metal like Atreyu, Bullet for My Valentine and All That Remains.
Speed Metal – Similar to just Metal, features Megadeth, Accept, Slayer
Melodic Metalcore – Basically, the new wave of American heavy metal like Killswitch Engage, Darkest Hour, Unearth
Industrial Metal – Marilyn Manson, Rammstein, Orgy, Powerman 5000, Static X
Progressive Metal – Queensryche, Dream Theater, Symphony X
Power Metal – Sabaton, Firewind, Edguy
Death Metal – Death, Obituary, Deicide, Dying Fetus
Thrash Metal – Slayer, Testament, Anthrax, Exodus, Kreator
Glam Metal – Motley Crue, Quiet Riot, Def Leppard, Dokken
Melodic Death Metal – basically Swedish metal, In Flames, Soilwork, Dark Tranquility, etc.
Neo Classical Metal – Kamelot, Stratovarius, Dragonforce
Symphonic Metal – Epica, Within Temptation, Nightwish
Death Core – Whitechapel, Suicide Silence, Chelsea Grin, Carnifex
Gothic Metal – Lacuna Coil, Within Temptation
German Metal – Edguy, Rage, Helloween
Gothic Symphonic Metal – Epica, Delain, Leaves' Eyes
Stoner Rock – Orange Goblin, Fu Manchu, High on Fire
Folk Metal – Eluveitie, Tursias, Finntroll, Moonsorrow

I did not even know "Folk Metal" was a thing. Seriously?

Wow, really nice list. Just a couple complaints. Doom metal is not on there and neither is Type O Negative. :( How they could pass Peter Steele up on even the Gothic lists is dumbfounding. Avante-Garde and Jazz metal are missing, but no one misses them. :? While the bands listed under Neoclassical metal technically are, they fit more appropriately into the Power, Progressive, or Symphonic spheres. Apocalyptica, Vinnie Moore, or Yngwie Malmsteen might be a better representation. Minor nitpicking, take it or leave it.

If anyone cares, I've been keeping up a "radio station" dispatch, which features Power, Prog, Goth, Doom/Stoner, and some Neoclassical.
Last edited by Ratateague on Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Entronium » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:04 pm

Ratateague wrote:Metal should definitely never be banned. There will always be those puritanical religious groups that go out of their way to cherrypick titles, lyrics, satanic themes, and certain subgenres in order to illustrate a demon that has to be addressed. That is a gross misrepresentation of the totality of metal. It can be wicked, it can be righteous, it can be mysterious. I can't stress enough how positive, moving, and uplifting metal can be! And I can't agree enough with the finding that metal alleviates negative emotions. Being one of the Power / Progressive / Neoclassical camp, I shy away from most of the dark, harsh, growly, or shrieking sounds that's found in those "ebil metal" subgenres (with the exception of some Goth, Doom/Stoner, and Avante-Garde metal). Just listen to Angra, Sonata Arctica, or Symphony X. Some of it borders on the religious, what you'd expect from some progressive worship music, only listenable!

I even remember what got me into metal: Power Rangers. That's right, Ron Wasserman really knew how to shred on children's TV!

Pope Joan wrote:These 25 subgenres come from a listing at the metalinjection website.

You would need to do a forced-choice approach to arrive at who to ban first. Seriously, some of this approaches elevator music!

Alternative Metal – Basically late 90s, early 00 radio rock like Korn, Disturbed and Papa Roach
Nu Metal – Korn is listed here again, obviously, other acts include Drowning Pool, Mudvayne, Sevendust
Hard Rock – This seems to mean classic rock like Van Halen, Whitesnake and Ted Nugent.
Groove Metal Modern mainstream metal like Machine Head, Trivium and Devildriver
Rap Metal – Not sure how this differs from nu metal, but featured acts include Linkin Park, POD, Limp Bizkit
Funk Metal – Faith No More, Rage Against The Machine, Red Hot Chili Peppers amongst the listed acts.
Metal – aka VH1 classic metal, like Iron Maiden, King Diamond and Motorhead
Metalcore – Warped Tour metal like Atreyu, Bullet for My Valentine and All That Remains.
Speed Metal – Similar to just Metal, features Megadeth, Accept, Slayer
Melodic Metalcore – Basically, the new wave of American heavy metal like Killswitch Engage, Darkest Hour, Unearth
Industrial Metal – Marilyn Manson, Rammstein, Orgy, Powerman 5000, Static X
Progressive Metal – Queensryche, Dream Theater, Symphony X
Power Metal – Sabaton, Firewind, Edguy
Death Metal – Death, Obituary, Deicide, Dying Fetus
Thrash Metal – Slayer, Testament, Anthrax, Exodus, Kreator
Glam Metal – Motley Crue, Quiet Riot, Def Leppard, Dokken
Melodic Death Metal – basically Swedish metal, In Flames, Soilwork, Dark Tranquility, etc.
Neo Classical Metal – Kamelot, Stratovarius, Dragonforce
Symphonic Metal – Epica, Within Temptation, Nightwish
Death Core – Whitechapel, Suicide Silence, Chelsea Grin, Carnifex
Gothic Metal – Lacuna Coil, Within Temptation
German Metal – Edguy, Rage, Helloween
Gothic Symphonic Metal – Epica, Delain, Leaves' Eyes
Stoner Rock – Orange Goblin, Fu Manchu, High on Fire
Folk Metal – Eluveitie, Tursias, Finntroll, Moonsorrow

I did not even know "Folk Metal" was a thing. Seriously?

Wow, really nice list. Just a couple complaints. Doom metal is not on there and neither is Type O Negative. :( How they could pass Peter Steele up on even the Gothic lists is dumbfounding. Avante-Garde and Jazz metal are missing, but no one misses them. :? While the bands listed under Neoclassical metal technically are, they fit more appropriately into the Power, Progressive, or Symphonic spheres. Apocalyptica, Vinnie Moore, or Yngwie Malmsteen might be a better representation. Minor nitpicking, take it or leave it.

If anyone cares, I've been keeping up a "radio station" dispatch, which features Power, Prog, Goth, Doom/Stoner, and some Neoclassical.


I agree
Keep heavy metal

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Postby -United Republic of Freedonia » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:27 pm

Ratateague wrote:If anyone cares, I've been keeping up a "radio station" dispatch, which features Power, Prog, Goth, Doom/Stoner, and some Neoclassical.

aaaaaaand more music to listen, good
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Postby Xadufell » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:39 pm

Pope Joan wrote:These 25 subgenres come from a listing at the metalinjection website.

You would need to do a forced-choice approach to arrive at who to ban first. Seriously, some of this approaches elevator music!

Alternative Metal – Basically late 90s, early 00 radio rock like Korn, Disturbed and Papa Roach
Nu Metal – Korn is listed here again, obviously, other acts include Drowning Pool, Mudvayne, Sevendust
Hard Rock – This seems to mean classic rock like Van Halen, Whitesnake and Ted Nugent.
Groove Metal Modern mainstream metal like Machine Head, Trivium and Devildriver
Rap Metal – Not sure how this differs from nu metal, but featured acts include Linkin Park, POD, Limp Bizkit
Funk Metal – Faith No More, Rage Against The Machine, Red Hot Chili Peppers amongst the listed acts.
Metal – aka VH1 classic metal, like Iron Maiden, King Diamond and Motorhead
Metalcore – Warped Tour metal like Atreyu, Bullet for My Valentine and All That Remains.
Speed Metal – Similar to just Metal, features Megadeth, Accept, Slayer
Melodic Metalcore – Basically, the new wave of American heavy metal like Killswitch Engage, Darkest Hour, Unearth
Industrial Metal – Marilyn Manson, Rammstein, Orgy, Powerman 5000, Static X
Progressive Metal – Queensryche, Dream Theater, Symphony X
Power Metal – Sabaton, Firewind, Edguy
Death Metal – Death, Obituary, Deicide, Dying Fetus
Thrash Metal – Slayer, Testament, Anthrax, Exodus, Kreator
Glam Metal – Motley Crue, Quiet Riot, Def Leppard, Dokken
Melodic Death Metal – basically Swedish metal, In Flames, Soilwork, Dark Tranquility, etc.
Neo Classical Metal – Kamelot, Stratovarius, Dragonforce
Symphonic Metal – Epica, Within Temptation, Nightwish
Death Core – Whitechapel, Suicide Silence, Chelsea Grin, Carnifex
Gothic Metal – Lacuna Coil, Within Temptation
German Metal – Edguy, Rage, Helloween
Gothic Symphonic Metal – Epica, Delain, Leaves' Eyes
Stoner Rock – Orange Goblin, Fu Manchu, High on Fire
Folk Metal – Eluveitie, Tursias, Finntroll, Moonsorrow

I did not even know "Folk Metal" was a thing. Seriously?


Ensiferum and Vintersorg are pretty lit Folk-ish Metal bands.
Septic Flesh is a good Orchestral Metal band.
Breakdown of Sanity is a good Metalcore band.
Let's see...
Rings of Saturn and Aversions Crown are like... I dunno Aliencore?

Metal is fuckin' metal, yo.
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Postby Reploid Productions » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:44 pm

Almost wondering if maybe we should move this thread over to A&F since it's turning less into a debate about banning metal and more of a general metal discussion thread! Especially as it seems anyone who was arguing in favor of banning or restricting metal music seems to have abandoned the thread completely and we're all swapping metal songs. :p
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Postby Hurdergaryp » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:59 am

Reploid Productions wrote:Almost wondering if maybe we should move this thread over to A&F since it's turning less into a debate about banning metal and more of a general metal discussion thread! Especially as it seems anyone who was arguing in favor of banning or restricting metal music seems to have abandoned the thread completely and we're all swapping metal songs. :p

Yeah, the usual NationStates Summer culprits clearly didn't derive sufficient amounts of dank satisfaction from the way this thread developed.


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Postby Fireye » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:45 am

Racist Commonwelath of East Virginia wrote:
Otira wrote:No, music should be open to free expression.

If weed is banned, why shouldn’t heavy metal be banned? It promotes a culture of anger, rage and nihilism that is harmful.
[citation needed] for the bolded.
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Postby Hurdergaryp » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:56 am

Fireye wrote:
Racist Commonwelath of East Virginia wrote:If weed is banned, why shouldn’t heavy metal be banned? It promotes a culture of anger, rage and nihilism that is harmful.

[citation needed] for the bolded.

That would be nice, but what if the youth pastor doesn't have a blog or Twitter account?


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Postby The Earth Systems Alliance » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:01 am

This idea is as dumb as classifying video games as a source of violence. So I would rank it in the scale of dumb ideas at this
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Should black metal be banned?

Postby Dawlat-i-Aliya » Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:45 pm

A while ago someone put up an argument for banning heavy metal, which I agree is a bad idea, however, it’s hard to deny that some forms of black metal (especially the scandanavian kind) do actively promote bad behavior: church burnings, murders, suicide, racism, nazism, general nastiness. Black metal isn’t the only genre of music to deal with these topics, but black metal musicians actively promote this kind of stuff; or at least some of them anyway. If black metal is music with this sort of nihilist/satanist/violence inciting ideology, as opposed to just a musical style, shouldn’t it be banned? Nazi symbolism is severely restricted in Germany, in many countries holocaust denial literature is banned. While I respect freedom of speech, I think black metal should be restricted because some artists do incite their fans to commit crime; Norwegian church burnings being an example of that.

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Postby Valgora » Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:17 pm

Fuck that.
I'll listen to black metal if I damn well please.
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Valgora =+/-IRL views
8 Values

Pro - Socialism/communism, Palestine, space exploration, left libertarianism, BLM, Gun Rights, LGBTQ, Industrial Hemp
Anti - Trump, Hillary, capitalism, authoritarianism, Gun Control, Police, UN, electric cars, Automation of the workforce
Sometimes, I like to think of myself as the Commie version of Dale Gribble.

User avatar
The South Falls
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13354
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The South Falls » Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:20 pm

Black Metal is fine. There's no reason to ban it. In fact, we should promote cultural expression like that so people have more to listen to. Same with "gang" rap. It tells a good story.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


Political Compass Results:

Economic: -5.5
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.51
I make dumb jokes. I'm really serious about that.

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