NationStates

Which do you side with, your religion or your nation? Christianity posits that one cannot have two masters, and even though I'm an atheist, I largely agree with this. There is always a superior and inferior in loyalties. Which is the superior loyalty for you? Which side needs watch you - your coreligionists, or your countrymen?

Conserative Morality wrote:Which do you side with, your religion or your nation? Christianity posits that one cannot have two masters, and even though I'm an atheist, I largely agree with this. There is always a superior and inferior in loyalties. Which is the superior loyalty for you? Which side needs watch you - your coreligionists, or your countrymen?

Why not both? Why can one not serve the nation and God at the same time? Just because God is my true master, do I not get to help the nation?

Firaxin wrote:Why not both? Why can one not serve the nation and God at the same time? Just because God is my true master, do I not get to help the nation?

The interests of any two groups with broad enough mandates inevitably conflict. When one measure is in support of your religion and the other is in support of your nation, you cannot choose 'both'.

My god will Trump my nation, in a way. But, sometimes His views line up with the nation's. see what I did there...

My religion of course. The president may be the most powerful man in the nation, but God is the most powerful being in the multiverse. Might as well side with the winning team.

Conserative Morality wrote:

Firaxin wrote:Why not both? Why can one not serve the nation and God at the same time? Just because God is my true master, do I not get to help the nation?

The interests of any two groups with broad enough mandates inevitably conflict. When one measure is in support of your religion and the other is in support of your nation, you cannot choose 'both'.

Ah, I see. So you’re saying something along the lines of “If the state were to mandate Compulsory Atheism would you comply?”. No I would not, but I would still try to help my countrymen and change the state for the greater good.

Firaxin wrote:

Conserative Morality wrote:Which do you side with, your religion or your nation? Christianity posits that one cannot have two masters, and even though I'm an atheist, I largely agree with this. There is always a superior and inferior in loyalties. Which is the superior loyalty for you? Which side needs watch you - your coreligionists, or your countrymen?

Why not both? Why can one not serve the nation and God at the same time? Just because God is my true master, do I not get to help the nation?

You certainly can in day to day life; but what will you do when your nation and your god tell you to do opposite things. Who will you obey.

Conserative Morality wrote:

Firaxin wrote:Why not both? Why can one not serve the nation and God at the same time? Just because God is my true master, do I not get to help the nation?

The interests of any two groups with broad enough mandates inevitably conflict. When one measure is in support of your religion and the other is in support of your nation, you cannot choose 'both'.

Actually you can case in point https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Doss this guy refused to kill for his country because of his religion instead he chose to heal for his country as a combat medic during WW2 so yes you can serve both God and country.

Gig em Aggies wrote:Actually you can case in point https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Doss this guy refused to kill for his country because of his religion instead he chose to heal for his country as a combat medic during WW2 so yes you can serve both God and country.

I am sure that it wasn't the sacrifices of others who enabled that; if the nation was supported by men like him I am sure we would have healed the Japanese into submission!

He wasn't placed in a position where he had to choose.

Conserative Morality wrote:Which do you side with, your religion or your nation? Christianity posits that one cannot have two masters, and even though I'm an atheist, I largely agree with this. There is always a superior and inferior in loyalties. Which is the superior loyalty for you? Which side needs watch you - your coreligionists, or your countrymen?

I prefer to use the term “the Republic” rather than the “the Nation”, but that is what I’m loyal to.

Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol wrote:

Conserative Morality wrote:Which do you side with, your religion or your nation? Christianity posits that one cannot have two masters, and even though I'm an atheist, I largely agree with this. There is always a superior and inferior in loyalties. Which is the superior loyalty for you? Which side needs watch you - your coreligionists, or your countrymen?

I prefer to use the term “the Republic” rather than the “the Nation”, but that is what I’m loyal to.

Well, I prefer to say "The Union" rather than 'The Nation", but I'm also aware that not everyone is an American, so I used the broader term.

I'm an atheist, so I don't serve religion at all. I would serve my nation to an extent, unless if it was completely out of line with my moral compass (i.e. the UK turned totalitarian for some reason)

Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft wrote:I'm an atheist, so I don't serve religion at all. I would serve my nation to an extent, unless if it was completely out of line with my moral compass (i.e. the UK turned totalitarian for some reason)

I think that’s the same with the religious in the thread, just that their moral code includes a faith of some kind. Perhaps the threads name and OP should be changed to reflect that. Personal Moral Code V. The Nation instead.

I’d rather fight a war with my nation than preform crusades with my fellow atheists.

Firaxin wrote:

Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft wrote:I'm an atheist, so I don't serve religion at all. I would serve my nation to an extent, unless if it was completely out of line with my moral compass (i.e. the UK turned totalitarian for some reason)

I think that’s the same with the religious in the thread, just that their moral code includes a faith of some kind. Perhaps the threads name and OP should be changed to reflect that. Personal Moral Code V. The Nation instead.

I must say, that when I was a far-right Traditionalist Catholic, I believed that the United States, along with every other nation should be a Roman Catholic version of Saudi Arabia...

Firaxin wrote:

Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft wrote:I'm an atheist, so I don't serve religion at all. I would serve my nation to an extent, unless if it was completely out of line with my moral compass (i.e. the UK turned totalitarian for some reason)

I think that’s the same with the religious in the thread, just that their moral code includes a faith of some kind. Perhaps the threads name and OP should be changed to reflect that. Personal Moral Code V. The Nation instead.

To be fair, the nation tends to have jails. Religions tend to have a hell of sorts.
Your personal moral code just makes you feel bad when you go against it.

Nation. I prefer to stick with things I actually believe exist

My nation's texts say to keep church and state separate. The holy book of the predominant religion in my country says to give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. My nation outranks any higher power, though I would not do something I believe to be unjust simply because I am commanded to do so by my nation.

Berdan wrote:My nation's texts say to keep church and state separate. The holy book of the predominant religion in my country says to give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. My nation outranks any higher power, though I would not do something I believe to be unjust simply because I am commanded to do so by my nation.

What would you do if your nation banned your religion ?

The Alma Mater wrote:

Berdan wrote:My nation's texts say to keep church and state separate. The holy book of the predominant religion in my country says to give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. My nation outranks any higher power, though I would not do something I believe to be unjust simply because I am commanded to do so by my nation.

What would you do if your nation banned your religion ?

If the nation that says "Keep the cross and crescent out of our laws" were to suddenly ban Athiesm, I think I'd be up in arms because at that point the government would be an unlawful theocracy perverting the course of the nation.

Why would I support a nation that persecutes against a fundamental building block of my personal character?

Tend towards the nation but in all honesty they are very equal in my eyes. It would depend on the precise circumstances.

Berhakonia wrote:Why would I support a nation that persecutes against a fundamental building block of my personal character?

The Nation is not a fundamental building block of your personal character?

Berhakonia wrote:Why would I support a nation that persecutes against a fundamental building block of my personal character?

If you don’t like the basic values of the nation you live in, then why not move?

One thing I've noticed from you and Parkus, is that both of you enjoy baiting users into rage.

Not saying it's a bannable offense, but it makes you look annoying and immature.