Iran threatens to blockade the straits of Hormuz

[Sahansahiye Iran]

Well, it's the wrong conclusion. The US has already fucked up too much in Iran and the region at large for us to accept anything about an American intervention.

Which is why interventionism will be abandoned. You can’t intervene in a situation if you’re already apart of it. Not only that, but you guys can share in the liberties, rights, and international conditions we have. Meaning, we actually did bring freedom to you this time.

Uh huh. I prefer precedent to empty words. And I especially don't trust the Trump administration to bring "liberties, rights, and international conditions" to the Iranian people.

Well, it's the wrong conclusion. The US has already fucked up too much in Iran and the region at large for us to accept anything about an American intervention.


Or maybe it's because the US supported a brutal dictator in Iran for 30 years and has embargoed the nation for another 30, not to mention recently going back on a deal made with them? But sure. Go with your "muh ebil Muslims" stance, despite Iran also being allied with Russia, a Christian majority country.

I’m not saying Muslims are evil. I have nothing against Muslims themselves. The religion is the thing I have a problem with, but that’s a topic for another time.

Anyways, no. They, the Iranian government’s top dogs, see us as Infidels. They think it is heretical for us to allow women to show skin, for one. Ffs just a few months ago they were burning an American flag in their cabinet building and only a handful of news outlets reported on it. The excessive and benign US interventionism has assisted this, but it’s mainly that we are seen as horrible people by the top brass of Iran.

Do you have selective reading or something? One of Iran's most major allies is Russia, a majority Orthodox Christian nation. You're trying to put a religious spin on what is essentially just regular geopolitics. The US is seen as "horrible people" by the government and they're burning the flag, not because of religion, but because you threaten their power. The US is seen as "horrible people" by the Iranian people because you have a government that rants about Iran, previously supported a brutal dictator in the nation for 30 years, and recently reneged on a deal with Iran that has angered the people. The flag burning you reference, if I am thinking of the same one, was literally because the US broke the deal. Not because the US is majority non-Muslim. If you'd read, you'll see that I already said nearly all of these things but you instead decided to latch onto a single thing and repeat your own buzzword.

[Thermodolia]

Never underestimate the leftist ability to hate other leftists more than the right wing.

Okay, let´s look up a few examples, especially where democratic communists were crushed in the name of the red scare:

What does this even have to do with my very correct statement?

Vietnam: The regime there was democratically elected, that´s a well known fact. America didn´t like it and started the war.

Actually that’s not what happened at all NV invaded the south which started the war. The south did not want to be under communist rule.

Germany, France and a lot of Europe: Socialism and communism were driving forces for democracy,

Right...

in fact many were killed in 1831 fighting for nothing else then social democracy. Another, more moderate wave erupted in 1848 finishing the job and in fact installing democracy, and full democracy too, for the first time. Unlike America that is still stuck in the incomplete republic state.

Oh look more America bashing. Also again what the fuck does this have to do with my statement?

Suharto bloodily executed nearly half of the population, aka around 40%, in Indonesia leading to what is known as the "Indonesian Massacre". Practically all of these people consisted of peacefull and democratic left wing and sometimes also Marxist students. Suharto and his dictatorial regime were supported by America in its cold war strategy.

And how does this change my statement or my views on anything?

This list can be sheer endlessly continued. You get the gist: Neither back then nor today does the west allow any democratic regimes it doesn´t like, no, it rather installs dictators and terrorists. Europe luckily stopped doing that since world war 2. America however is still stuck to that barbaric and destructive practice.

Ok and what does this have to do with anything I posted? Which was “Never underestimate the power of leftists hating other leftists more the right wing”

Also there’s nothing wrong with proping up a dictatorship.

So, name me one time America ever brought peace to the world? Lmao.

Several actually. WW1, WW2, American-Spanish War. Also more America bashing

And once more you hide behind blames. The only countries that should be in charge of judging should be full democracies, and ones that have remained peacefull in its military operations and international diplomacy for at least 30 years. Something America totally fails in all regards. Like it or not, make excuse after excuse all you want these facts remain. To be taken serious in your demands you´d need to:

Nope we don’t need to be like Europeans ain’t gonna happen. We aren’t giving up our power and we can judge who ever we damn well please.

1: Become a full democracy yourself first.

We already are one. Though that’s not exactly a reason why we can’t judge anyone.

2: Remove all existing dictators or incomplete democracies you left over and help transgress those nations you damaged into full democracies as well.

Why?

Addition: No Embargoing, carpet bombing, invasion, coups or any instigations of candidates or any more bullshit like that either! You´ll help transgress them by diplomatic means and partialy by your budget too.

Why the fuck would we do that?

3: Into point 2 also flows point 3 where you should pay at least a minimum in reperation of your warcrimes in a fair Marshal way over a long period, this includes for example Vietnam too, and Iraq, Iran etc. etc. too.

Ya fuck that. We aren’t European pushovers. We aren’t going to be a goddamn doormat.

4: You are no longer allowed to force your culture onto other nations just as little as they are allowed too do the same to you or anyone else. As long as America does not abide to these rules it should remain banned.

Fuck that. Well do whatever we damn well please.

5: Removal of the dollar standard, and enacting a simple rule that all nations or unions trade in their own currencies. No nation stands above another in these organizations, neither politically nor economically. Any global currency standard leads to a dictator inside the UN, the NATO, the WTO and this simply cannot be. These institutes are about democracy, and not autocracy.

You know nothing about economics. Removing the dollar standard would crash the economy, which you would then blame us for following your rules.

And the rest of your comment is utter bullshit.

6: Abiding of any other WTO, NATO and UN rules like everyone else.

The EU doesn’t abide by any WTO rules, nor do they NATO. Only a few European nations actually abide by NATO rules. And the vast majority of nations don’t give a shit about the UN.

So why do we have to do what nobody else does?

These are reasonable terms if you want to be in the position of judging other nations with a seat inside these organizations. In the meantime only those that fullfill this criteria may enact any authority, and that would mostly be Europe and Scandinavia like it or not. Don´t like it? Join them. Or not and fall like Rome, or take the responsibility for another world war fully yourself this time.

Hahahahaha. Ahhaha. Hahahah. All I can do is laugh. We can judge who ever we goddamn please. We have the firepower to do so.

Also we can ignore everything single one of your edicts. And completely pull all of our aid, Financial and military, from Europe if they pulled a stunt like this. We wouldn’t give a shit.

Once more instead of admitting your fault and changing it, and being thankfull for your already more then generously priviliges you have, you once more blame others and show aggression, or in short: openly challenge the removal from any priviliged seat you still have.

Aggression is good sweetie. The real world isn’t a bunch of pacifist who only want to help. The real world wants to kill you and take everything you have.

Well good. Leave the WTO and best the NATO and UN as well, as you deserve a seat neitherwhere anyway.

NATO and the UN would both collapse without us. Not exactly something you want. The WTO is completely meaningless.

And I still don’t understand what this had to do with my statement

[Empire of Narnia]

Do it. Mine that bitch up good.

[The East Marches II]

The Iranians have provided the Taliban with arms, training and money for the majority of the war on terror.

I'm not arguing that you are wrong here (I'd believe it), but can you provide a source or a few for this? I wanna read more.

Sure thing. I tried to give a variety of sources of respectable quality from right, left and center.

Source 1

Source 2

[url=https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/11/al-qaeda-iran-cia/545576/
]Source 3[/url]

[Firaxin]

Which is why interventionism will be abandoned. You can’t intervene in a situation if you’re already apart of it. Not only that, but you guys can share in the liberties, rights, and international conditions we have. Meaning, we actually did bring freedom to you this time.

Uh huh. I prefer precedent to empty words. And I especially don't trust the Trump administration to bring "liberties, rights, and international conditions" to the Iranian people.

In the event an annexation does happen they would have to, or they are breaking the Law of the Constitution. I will always support annexation during war, but that doesn’t mean that it will happen like I’d like it too.

[Sahansahiye Iran]

I'm not arguing that you are wrong here (I'd believe it), but can you provide a source or a few for this? I wanna read more.

Sure thing. I tried to give a variety of sources of respectable quality from right, left and center.

Source 1

Source 2

[url=https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/11/al-qaeda-iran-cia/545576/
]Source 3[/url]

Thanks, TEM <3 Fuckin paywall on your first one, though. But the others were good enough for me, too.

[The East Marches II]

Sure thing. I tried to give a variety of sources of respectable quality from right, left and center.

Source 1

Source 2

[url=https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/11/al-qaeda-iran-cia/545576/
]Source 3[/url]

Thanks, TEM <3 Fuckin paywall on your first one, though. But the others were good enough for me, too.

Sorry about the paywall, I forgot. I'm glad I could help though.

[Berdan]

One of the first things Vietnam did upon the Communist victory was stopping Pol Pot from waging one of the most proportionally brutal genocides in history

Never underestimate the leftist ability to hate other leftists more than the right wing.

Not really what happened there, more that Pol Pot was a brutal psychopath and Vietnam said "Holy shit gotta stop this guy", went in, arrested Saddam Hussein, and had him put on permanent house arrest.
Whereas the US would've determined that Pol Pot as a communist probably liked the USSR more than they did us, and proceeded to bomb the country into oblivion whilst summarily executing Pol Pot and his leading followers.

[Oil exporting People]

[Napkiraly]

I mean yeah it fucked up the country as a whole but that was a fantastic victory for the Coalition.

Taking out Iran would be a great strategic move against Russia and therefore China as well.

Limit it to naval operations, the occasional seaborne raid, and the occasional air and/or missile strike. Target their merchant shipping and smugglers. It'll be the ME equivalent to the Anglo-Dutch wars.

[Oil exporting People]

Limit it to naval operations, the occasional seaborne raid, and the occasional air and/or missile strike. Target their merchant shipping and smugglers. It'll be the ME equivalent to the Anglo-Dutch wars.

Oil Rig War of 1988, Part II

[The of Japan]

Never underestimate the leftist ability to hate other leftists more than the right wing.

Not really what happened there, more that Pol Pot was a brutal psychopath and Vietnam said "Holy shit gotta stop this guy", went in, arrested Saddam Hussein, and had him put on permanent house arrest.
Whereas the US would've determined that Pol Pot as a communist probably liked the USSR more than they did us, and proceeded to bomb the country into oblivion whilst summarily executing Pol Pot and his leading followers.

Vietnam jnvaded Cambodia because pol pot attacked veitnam to preempt Vietnam, at least that was his reasoning. West backed pol pot and Khmer Rouge after that because Vietnam was allied to soviets.

[The South Falls]

Limit it to naval operations, the occasional seaborne raid, and the occasional air and/or missile strike. Target their merchant shipping and smugglers. It'll be the ME equivalent to the Anglo-Dutch wars.

Oil Rig War of 1988, Part II

We'll have an intermittent part every year from now on, until the Iran rebellion is stopped.

[Mithridia]

My CIB is calling my name.

Fucking do it.

[Saiwania]

Vietnam jnvaded Cambodia because pol pot attacked veitnam to preempt Vietnam, at least that was his reasoning. West backed pol pot and Khmer Rouge after that because Vietnam was allied to soviets.

It was kind of partially personal for Vietnam. The Khmer Rouge were killing Vietnamese within its borders as well as doing incursions into Vietnam, killing some of their civilians. Khmer Rouge leaders spoke openly of wanting to conquer historically Khmer lands that were apart of Vietnam. It is no wonder that they wanted to get rid of Pol Pot. Cambodia was asking for trouble and got it.

[Baalkistann]

I may be wrong but I don’t think Iran has the Naval power to hold a blockade.

[Oil exporting People]

I may be wrong but I don’t think Iran has the Naval power to hold a blockade.

Mining, fast attack craft and land based missiles are their likely means. Forward deploying USAF assets and Naval forces would be enough to deal with it, although the Iranians could raise bloody hell in the short term.

[The Archregimancy]

Iran can't completely blockade the Strait without enforcing a naval blockade in Omani territorial waters; the main shipping routes pass through Omani waters off the Musandam Peninsula, and not through Iranian waters.


And even if Iran were somehow willing to effectively declare war on Oman, the Emiratis have been preparing for this for some time.

[Zanera]

Do it Iran, no balls.

This I guess. IDK.

[Trumptonium1]

It would probably take Iran a while to lay all of those mines, because they don't have many minelayers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... _Iran_Navy

Then there is the US Navy Avenger Class of minesweepers.

A few of them have been retired.

Regardless the US has surprisingly few minesweepers.

https://www.globalfirepower.com/navy-mi ... -craft.asp

[Herador]

Then there is the US Navy Avenger Class of minesweepers.

A few of them have been retired.

Regardless the US has surprisingly few minesweepers.

https://www.globalfirepower.com/navy-mi ... -craft.asp

Four of them are stationed in Bahrain though, so they're close.Information circa 2012 but I don't see why they would have changed it.

[Fartsniffage]

Then there is the US Navy Avenger Class of minesweepers.

A few of them have been retired.

Regardless the US has surprisingly few minesweepers.

https://www.globalfirepower.com/navy-mi ... -craft.asp

That's due to old Cold war doctrine. The UK did mine sweeping and sub hunting and the US did air defense and sinking the surface fleet.

It's one of the reasons we got so clobbered by the Argies during the Falklands, our navy was expecting to be operating alongside Kidd-class destroyers when we went to war.