Melkor Unchained wrote:I often tell myself that I'm not writing so much for the benefit of my opponent (since in most cases, neither one of us will change the other's mind) but for the benefit of a potentially undecided third party. It's easy to assume that NSG debate is a zero-sum game, but I've had at least a couple people approach me over the years to say they appreciated my posts. I like to think I played a part in the conversion (I'll let them name themselves, should they choose) of a couple of users. Very gratifying when that happens!
This.
I've appreciated the posts of many posters here. Sometimes when I was arguing with them, but often when I just hadn't looked at some view that way in the past.
As for whether NSG changes anyone's mind, I've evolved a lot as a result of NSG. Much of my political opinion as it exists today has been tested in the crucible of NSG.
I find that people who get frustrated at NSG are:
1) Aren't used to being passionately disagreed with
2) Aren't used to people actually verifying whether what they are saying
3) Aren't used to people who disagree with them being able to immediately come up with tons of supporting information
As a result, IRL you can say, "oh, yeah, prove it" and no one does it. IRL you can make anecdotal claims and no one calls bullshit because IRL seems to consider this equivalent to calling someone a liar (doubting what someone says should be the norm, honestly). IRL, most people don't know what a strawman or ad hominem is. It's not uncommon for a real life debate to quickly devolve among friends into teasing one another.
On NSG, you have to be ready to put up or shut up. I've made arguments where nearly everyone disagrees. It's unpleasant but it truly tests your convictions and how they stand up to reason. Not everyone is reasonable, but many are and it's plenty easy to focus on those people if you're interested.
In the end, I focus on a third party as Melkor said. I don't care if I convince the person I'm talking to. To a large degree, I'm not even talking to them. I'm trying to make sure that when people form political opinion who are undecided that they're really looking at a healthy debate of both sides. To that end, I actually enjoy when we get interesting and knowledgeable people of every stripe even those I most disagree with.