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Is NSG useless?

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Natapoc
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Founded: Antiquity
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Natapoc » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:00 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Because some people will go out of their way to ridicule you. People will go out of their way to more than disagree with you. They will insert malicious things just to make you blow.

Care for those you see and are a part of your life.



That is a reflection of your worldview. My worldview is different then yours. There is nothing wrong with this. Your worldview is not innately superior.
Did you see a ghost?

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Posts: 185236
Founded: Feb 10, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:01 pm

Natapoc wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Because some people will go out of their way to ridicule you. People will go out of their way to more than disagree with you. They will insert malicious things just to make you blow.

Care for those you see and are a part of your life.



That is a reflection of your worldview. My worldview is different then yours. There is nothing wrong with this. Your worldview is not innately superior.


Neither is yours. And once again you make the erroneous assumptions. I never said, never implied my world view is better than yours or anyone's.
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Natapoc
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Natapoc » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:03 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Natapoc wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Because some people will go out of their way to ridicule you. People will go out of their way to more than disagree with you. They will insert malicious things just to make you blow.

Care for those you see and are a part of your life.



That is a reflection of your worldview. My worldview is different then yours. There is nothing wrong with this. Your worldview is not innately superior.


Neither is yours. And once again you make the erroneous assumptions. I never said, never implied my world view is better than yours or anyone's.


Indeed. And the implication that your worldview is better then mine is from your statement "
Care for those you see and are a part of your life."
Did you see a ghost?

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Conserative Morality
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Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:04 pm

Natapoc wrote:That is a reflection of your worldview. My worldview is different then yours. There is nothing wrong with this. Your worldview is not innately superior.

Perhaps not, but there are worldviews that are correct, and worldviews that are incorrect. Correct worldviews can disagree with each other, and are rarely the same, but that makes the distinction no less true.
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Conserative Morality
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:04 pm

Natapoc wrote:Indeed. And the implication that your worldview is better then mine is from your statement "
Care for those you see and are a part of your life."

The hell? That's barely a suggestion, much less a statement of superiority.
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Maurepas
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Ex-Nation

Postby Maurepas » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:04 pm

Yes

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Conserative Morality
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Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:05 pm

Maurepas wrote:Yes

You gain no enjoyment from NSG then? :p
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Maurepas
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Ex-Nation

Postby Maurepas » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:06 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Maurepas wrote:Yes

You gain no enjoyment from NSG then? :p

Depends on the day/my mood, like IRL, come to think of it, ;)

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Founded: Feb 10, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:07 pm

Natapoc wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Natapoc wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Because some people will go out of their way to ridicule you. People will go out of their way to more than disagree with you. They will insert malicious things just to make you blow.

Care for those you see and are a part of your life.



That is a reflection of your worldview. My worldview is different then yours. There is nothing wrong with this. Your worldview is not innately superior.


Neither is yours. And once again you make the erroneous assumptions. I never said, never implied my world view is better than yours or anyone's.


Indeed. And the implication that your worldview is better then mine is from your statement "
Care for those you see and are a part of your life."


Perhaps you should read again. Just because I say that your world view is not superior than mine doesn't mean that your world view is inferior. I suggest you read my post again and not on the defensive.
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Natapoc
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Founded: Antiquity
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Natapoc » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:09 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Natapoc wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Natapoc wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Because some people will go out of their way to ridicule you. People will go out of their way to more than disagree with you. They will insert malicious things just to make you blow.

Care for those you see and are a part of your life.



That is a reflection of your worldview. My worldview is different then yours. There is nothing wrong with this. Your worldview is not innately superior.


Neither is yours. And once again you make the erroneous assumptions. I never said, never implied my world view is better than yours or anyone's.


Indeed. And the implication that your worldview is better then mine is from your statement "
Care for those you see and are a part of your life."


Perhaps you should read again. Just because I say that your world view is not superior than mine doesn't mean that your world view is inferior. I suggest you read my post again and not on the defensive.


I understand. I'm simply explaining why I interpreted it that way at the time.
Did you see a ghost?

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Natapoc
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Natapoc » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:11 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Natapoc wrote:Indeed. And the implication that your worldview is better then mine is from your statement "
Care for those you see and are a part of your life."

The hell? That's barely a suggestion, much less a statement of superiority.


Care for those you see and are a part of your life is a reference to a very specific set of ethics/morals. The way it was phrased can be interpreted in various ways.
Did you see a ghost?

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Fanaglia
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Posts: 4071
Founded: Nov 09, 2009
Capitalizt

Postby Fanaglia » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:11 pm

Natapoc wrote:Does anyone come on to NSG to discuss and learn from others or do most just like to troll?

Do you mainly post to try to "argue/compete" with other posters simply to satiate a desire for conflict/attention?

I find that in real life people are nearly always kind, agreeable, ect and very easy to talk with but on NSG so many posters are exasperating.

Do discussions here have any impact at all or is it just a game to you?

edit: When I say is NSG useless I mean is it useless as a platform for discussion and debate of genuine feelings and ideologies held by posters.


I think it's a pretty good place for debate etc., though it certainly has its share of spammers, flamers, and attention whores. It's a whole lot better than most RL debates, where nine times out of ten, one or both parties get all huffy and resort to personal attacks or even violence. Here, at least, you don't have the violence and, though you do still get the inevitability of inane personal attacks, you get more people just giving up and moving on than you do in real life. I'd like to argue with someone like UAWC or Nobel Hobos IRL just to see how that would go.

Plus, working in public service and being a hard-nosed cynic has made me realize something: 9/10 people do not know how to listen. Ever. If it's in print, you might at least accidentally educate someone, assuming your reader is half-literate.
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Conserative Morality
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:11 pm

Natapoc wrote:I understand. I'm simply explaining why I interpreted it that way at the time.

That's not merely a stretch, that's not even a leap, that's a full blown Evel Knievel style stunt.
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Conserative Morality
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:13 pm

Natapoc wrote:Care for those you see and are a part of your life is a reference to a very specific set of ethics/morals.

Yeah, and...? That still fails to be a statement of superiority in any way, shape, or form.
The way it was phrased can be interpreted in various ways.

And 'My worldview is better' is not one of the ways it can be correctly interpreted.

Before you say "That's just our different worldviews", it's really not, it's the English language, which is much less flexible than opinion.
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Tagmatium
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Tagmatium » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:13 pm

Natapoc wrote:I understand. I'm simply explaining why I interpreted it that way at the time.

The argument between the pair of you in this thread seems to reflect the OP.
The above post may or may not be serious.
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Natapoc
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Founded: Antiquity
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Natapoc » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:13 pm

Fanaglia wrote:
Natapoc wrote:Does anyone come on to NSG to discuss and learn from others or do most just like to troll?

Do you mainly post to try to "argue/compete" with other posters simply to satiate a desire for conflict/attention?

I find that in real life people are nearly always kind, agreeable, ect and very easy to talk with but on NSG so many posters are exasperating.

Do discussions here have any impact at all or is it just a game to you?

edit: When I say is NSG useless I mean is it useless as a platform for discussion and debate of genuine feelings and ideologies held by posters.


I think it's a pretty good place for debate etc., though it certainly has its share of spammers, flamers, and attention whores. It's a whole lot better than most RL debates, where nine times out of ten, one or both parties get all huffy and resort to personal attacks or even violence. Here, at least, you don't have the violence and, though you do still get the inevitability of inane personal attacks, you get more people just giving up and moving on than you do in real life. I'd like to argue with someone like UAWC or Nobel Hobos IRL just to see how that would go.

Plus, working in public service and being a hard-nosed cynic has made me realize something: 9/10 people do not know how to listen. Ever. If it's in print, you might at least accidentally educate someone, assuming your reader is half-literate.


I suspect that in real life you would find yourself agreeing more with them (and they with you) after you realize that most of your disagreements are artificial.
Did you see a ghost?

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Natapoc
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Natapoc » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:14 pm

Tagmatium wrote:
Natapoc wrote:I understand. I'm simply explaining why I interpreted it that way at the time.

The argument between the pair of you in this thread seems to reflect the OP.


It seems to.
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Founded: Feb 10, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:15 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Natapoc wrote:Care for those you see and are a part of your life is a reference to a very specific set of ethics/morals.

Yeah, and...? That still fails to be a statement of superiority in any way, shape, or form.
The way it was phrased can be interpreted in various ways.

And 'My worldview is better' is not one of the ways it can be correctly interpreted.

Before you say "That's just our different worldviews", it's really not, it's the English language, which is much less flexible than opinion.


I'm still trying to figure out how this:
Because some people will go out of their way to ridicule you. People will go out of their way to more than disagree with you. They will insert malicious things just to make you blow.

Care for those you see and are a part of your life.


... is me telling Natapoc that my world view is superior to hers.
Code name: Ratatouille Strychnine
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Heartless, ''transgendered non-binary kawaii Chan'', & a d*ck.||No TGs
RIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria

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Nort Eurasia
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Founded: Jul 16, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Nort Eurasia » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:15 pm

Natapoc wrote:Does anyone come on to NSG to discuss and learn from others or do most just like to troll?

Do you mainly post to try to "argue/compete" with other posters simply to satiate a desire for conflict/attention?

I find that in real life people are nearly always kind, agreeable, ect and very easy to talk with but on NSG so many posters are exasperating.

Do discussions here have any impact at all or is it just a game to you?

edit: When I say is NSG useless I mean is it useless as a platform for discussion and debate of genuine feelings and ideologies held by posters.


Oh yeah?!! Well umm You're a poopyface!!!
You should not give in to evils, but proceed ever so boldly against them.

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Jocabia
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Founded: Mar 25, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Jocabia » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:15 pm

Melkor Unchained wrote:I often tell myself that I'm not writing so much for the benefit of my opponent (since in most cases, neither one of us will change the other's mind) but for the benefit of a potentially undecided third party. It's easy to assume that NSG debate is a zero-sum game, but I've had at least a couple people approach me over the years to say they appreciated my posts. I like to think I played a part in the conversion (I'll let them name themselves, should they choose) of a couple of users. Very gratifying when that happens! :lol2:

This.

I've appreciated the posts of many posters here. Sometimes when I was arguing with them, but often when I just hadn't looked at some view that way in the past.

As for whether NSG changes anyone's mind, I've evolved a lot as a result of NSG. Much of my political opinion as it exists today has been tested in the crucible of NSG.

I find that people who get frustrated at NSG are:
1) Aren't used to being passionately disagreed with
2) Aren't used to people actually verifying whether what they are saying
3) Aren't used to people who disagree with them being able to immediately come up with tons of supporting information

As a result, IRL you can say, "oh, yeah, prove it" and no one does it. IRL you can make anecdotal claims and no one calls bullshit because IRL seems to consider this equivalent to calling someone a liar (doubting what someone says should be the norm, honestly). IRL, most people don't know what a strawman or ad hominem is. It's not uncommon for a real life debate to quickly devolve among friends into teasing one another.

On NSG, you have to be ready to put up or shut up. I've made arguments where nearly everyone disagrees. It's unpleasant but it truly tests your convictions and how they stand up to reason. Not everyone is reasonable, but many are and it's plenty easy to focus on those people if you're interested.

In the end, I focus on a third party as Melkor said. I don't care if I convince the person I'm talking to. To a large degree, I'm not even talking to them. I'm trying to make sure that when people form political opinion who are undecided that they're really looking at a healthy debate of both sides. To that end, I actually enjoy when we get interesting and knowledgeable people of every stripe even those I most disagree with.
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Natapoc
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Natapoc » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:15 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Natapoc wrote:Care for those you see and are a part of your life is a reference to a very specific set of ethics/morals.

Yeah, and...? That still fails to be a statement of superiority in any way, shape, or form.
The way it was phrased can be interpreted in various ways.

And 'My worldview is better' is not one of the ways it can be correctly interpreted.

Before you say "That's just our different worldviews", it's really not, it's the English language, which is much less flexible than opinion.


Will you just let go of it already? It was a simple misunderstanding.
Did you see a ghost?

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Conserative Morality
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Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:16 pm

Natapoc wrote:Will you just let go of it already? It was a simple misunderstanding.

Typically, when there is a misunderstanding, one party admits that the misunderstanding occurred before they had been called on it several times.
Last edited by Conserative Morality on Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Natapoc
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Founded: Antiquity
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Natapoc » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:16 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:
Natapoc wrote:Care for those you see and are a part of your life is a reference to a very specific set of ethics/morals.

Yeah, and...? That still fails to be a statement of superiority in any way, shape, or form.
The way it was phrased can be interpreted in various ways.

And 'My worldview is better' is not one of the ways it can be correctly interpreted.

Before you say "That's just our different worldviews", it's really not, it's the English language, which is much less flexible than opinion.


I'm still trying to figure out how this:
Because some people will go out of their way to ridicule you. People will go out of their way to more than disagree with you. They will insert malicious things just to make you blow.

Care for those you see and are a part of your life.


... is me telling Natapoc that my world view is superior to hers.


Did I not already suggest that it was simply a misunderstanding of your intent based on the way you phrased it? Why are we still arguing about this?
Did you see a ghost?

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Natapoc
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Posts: 19864
Founded: Antiquity
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Natapoc » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:17 pm

Nort Eurasia wrote:
Natapoc wrote:Does anyone come on to NSG to discuss and learn from others or do most just like to troll?

Do you mainly post to try to "argue/compete" with other posters simply to satiate a desire for conflict/attention?

I find that in real life people are nearly always kind, agreeable, ect and very easy to talk with but on NSG so many posters are exasperating.

Do discussions here have any impact at all or is it just a game to you?

edit: When I say is NSG useless I mean is it useless as a platform for discussion and debate of genuine feelings and ideologies held by posters.


Oh yeah?!! Well umm You're a poopyface!!!


You too! :kiss: Yuck! What is that on your face? :palm:
Did you see a ghost?

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Yootopia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8410
Founded: Dec 28, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Yootopia » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:17 pm

Natapoc wrote:Why are we still arguing about this?

Because you're both young and arrogant.
End the Modigarchy now.

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