NationStates

Tarsonis wrote:

New haven america wrote:I wasn't aware the Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Ethiopian, Armenian, etc... Have stopped their thousands+ years traditions of believe that gay people go to Hell.

1. Only unrepentant sinners go to hell.

Also, you're the only one here who mentioned gay people. Nice slip up, totally doesn't help your case.

Oh please like if wasn’t painfully obvious what you were saying.

1. And according to all those churches, being gay makes you an unrepentant sinner, even if you repent.
2. I never claimed who I was talking about. For all you know I could've been talking about alcoholics or men who go down on their wives.

Hanafuridake wrote:

Luminesa wrote:He did, just 2,000 years ago. Most historians will say that a Jesus did exist and did preach, but they just will argue whether or not He was actually...well, God.

2000 years ago is a really long time in terms of human history and includes a bunch of historically dubious elements that are impossible to verify.

Just like when Buddha was born he took seven steps and from those seven steps sprouted seven lotus flowers? I don’t mean to mock Buddhism, but glass houses comes to mind here.

Tarsonis wrote:

Hanafuridake wrote:
2000 years ago is a really long time in terms of human history and includes a bunch of historically dubious elements that are impossible to verify.

Just like when Buddha was born he took seven steps and from those seven steps sprouted seven lotus flowers? I don’t mean to mock Buddhism, but glass houses comes to mind here.

I thought you weren't going to bring up my religion in this thread because it was off topic.

New haven america wrote:

Tarsonis wrote:
1. Only unrepentant sinners go to hell.



Oh please like if wasn’t painfully obvious what you were saying.

1. And according to all those churches, being gay makes you an unrepentant sinner, even if you repent.

Wrong.

2. I never claimed who I was talking about. For all you know I could've been talking about alcoholics or men who go down on their wives.

Yeah but we all knew with your OT comment. Hell even you knew and had to add this dig in after the fact because it was so obvious you didn’t even think to make it at first.

Luminesa wrote:

Hanafuridake wrote:
It would be easier if he just appeared in front of everyone and told them.

He did, just 2,000 years ago. Most historians will say that a Jesus did exist and did preach, but they just will argue whether or not He was actually...well, God.

That was hardly "everyone" even at the time.

Hanafuridake wrote:

Tarsonis wrote:
Just like when Buddha was born he took seven steps and from those seven steps sprouted seven lotus flowers? I don’t mean to mock Buddhism, but glass houses comes to mind here.

I thought you weren't going to bring up my religion in this thread because it was off topic.

I’m not going to debate the merits of your religion. As I said the comment wasn’t to be critical of Buddhism, it was more about glass houses. All our faiths have stories that by now cannot be verified by historical analysis. It seems a Dubious prospect that a person seeking ordination in one faith, would be critical of another on these grounds.

Tarsonis wrote:

New haven america wrote:1. And according to all those churches, being gay makes you an unrepentant sinner, even if you repent.

1. Wrong.

2. I never claimed who I was talking about. For all you know I could've been talking about alcoholics or men who go down on their wives.

Yeah but we all knew with your OT comment. Hell even you knew and had to add this dig in after the fact because it was so obvious you didn’t even think to make it at first.

1. Really? Since when did the Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Ethiopian, Armenian, etc... Churches let go and stop believing in their thousand+ years policy that gay people go to Hell?
2. There's shit mentioned in both the OT and NT that applies to my comment. For all you know you I could've been talking about adulterers, thieves, or people with jealousy issues.

New haven america wrote:

Tarsonis wrote:
1. Wrong.


Yeah but we all knew with your OT comment. Hell even you knew and had to add this dig in after the fact because it was so obvious you didn’t even think to make it at first.

1. Really? Since when did the Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Ethiopian, Armenian, etc... Churches let go and stop believing in their thousand+ years policy that gay people go to Hell?

As I said, that was never “policy.” The Doctrine, is and has always been, that unrepentant sinners go to hell.

2. There's shit mentioned in both the OT and NT that applies to my comment. For all you know you I could've been talking about adulterers, thieves, or those who get jealous easily.

Yeah but you’ve trolling about the “2000+” year old OT in relation to discussions about homosexuality in this thread and the Uganda thread for the last week. Again not a difficult observation to make. But go on and keep trying to make this about me. I mean it’s not working but by all means keep trying.

Oh, looks like we have some new posters in the CDT, welcome everybody!

Tarsonis wrote:

New haven america wrote:1. Really? Since when did the Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Ethiopian, Armenian, etc... Churches let go and stop believing in their thousand+ years policy that gay people go to Hell?

1. As I said, that was never “policy.” The Doctrine, is and has always been, that unrepentant sinners go to hell.

2. There's shit mentioned in both the OT and NT that applies to my comment. For all you know you I could've been talking about adulterers, thieves, or those who get jealous easily.

2. Yeah but you’ve trolling about the “2000+” year old OT in relation to discussions about homosexuality in this thread and the Uganda thread for the last week. Again not a difficult observation to make. 3. But go on and keep trying to make this about me. I mean it’s not working but by all means keep trying.

1. Strange, so why is it that in every area those churches rule(d) over, gay people are almost always the first ones to experience the most discrimination in society, and even those who repent or never take a partner are still believed to go to Hell by the Churches? You can try to deny this belief all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still a tradition and belief that's actively in use.
2. Yeah, and that was the Uganda thread, not this one. How does that apply to this?
3. The only reason it's about you is because you're the one who jumped to conclusions. You thought you knew what I was talking about, and ended up being completely wrong, as more than just gay people fit into the category of being created specifically to go to Hell.

Hanafuridake wrote:

Tarsonis wrote:
God: *Incarnates in mankind, suffers and dies on the cross so that all may be reconciled to God. All one has to do is accept this gift. Literally anyone.*

You: “Yeah I don’t wanna do that. why can’t you just save everyone regardless?”

It would be easier if he just appeared in front of everyone and told them.

Go to a Mass and you can see God in front of you.

Hakons wrote:

Hanafuridake wrote:
It would be easier if he just appeared in front of everyone and told them.

Go to a Mass and you can see God in front of you.

A piece of bread?

Hanafuridake wrote:

Hakons wrote:
Go to a Mass and you can see God in front of you.

A piece of bread?

If you don't even try to find God, why do you think you'll find Him? If God presents Himself, and you refuse to look for Him or understand His presence, that's on you, not God.

New haven america wrote:

Tarsonis wrote:

1. As I said, that was never “policy.” The Doctrine, is and has always been, that unrepentant sinners go to hell.


2. Yeah but you’ve trolling about the “2000+” year old OT in relation to discussions about homosexuality in this thread and the Uganda thread for the last week. Again not a difficult observation to make. 3. But go on and keep trying to make this about me. I mean it’s not working but by all means keep trying.

1. Strange, so why is it that in every area those churches rule(d) over, gay people are almost always the first ones to experience the most discrimination in society,

because people suck.

and even those who repent or never take a partner are still believed to go to Hell by the Churches?

except again they aren’t, no matter how you keep trying to reword that statement it’s not correct.

You can try to deny this belief all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still a tradition and belief that's actively in use.

I don’t need to try and deny. I can prove it you’re wrong. Per the Catechism of the Catholic Church

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Slow your roll Quixote, those giants really are just windmills

2. Yeah, and that was the Uganda thread, not this one. How does that apply to this?

Seriously. That’s the best you can do?

3. The only reason it's about you is because you're the one who jumped to conclusions. You thought you knew what I was talking about, and ended up being completely wrong, as more than just gay people fit into the category of being created specifically to go to Hell.

I made a deduction based on your posting history. But all right, I’ll bite. Tell me, since you weren’t referring to gays, who were you referring to? Who is this mysterious group of people that were “created to go to hell?”

Hakons wrote:

Hanafuridake wrote:
A piece of bread?

If you don't even try to find God, why do you think you'll find Him? If God presents Himself, and you refuse to look for Him or understand His presence, that's on you, not God.

It's a piece of bread. Literally no different in composition from another piece of bread. I'm going to have to stake my future existence on something more than a piece of flat bread.

Hakons wrote:

Hanafuridake wrote:
A piece of bread?

If you don't even try to find God, why do you think you'll find Him? If God presents Himself, and you refuse to look for Him or understand His presence, that's on you, not God.

Look, I’ll defend the real presence all day, but you can’t act like it’s obvious to a non-believer.

Hanafuridake wrote:

Hakons wrote:
If you don't even try to find God, why do you think you'll find Him? If God presents Himself, and you refuse to look for Him or understand His presence, that's on you, not God.

It's a piece of bread. Literally no different in composition from another piece of bread. I'm going to have to stake my future existence on something more than that.

You believe that the physical world is an illusion to begin with though don’t you(admittedly I could be wrong or oversimplifying things)? Is Transubstantiation that hard of a leap?

Hanafuridake wrote:

Hakons wrote:
If you don't even try to find God, why do you think you'll find Him? If God presents Himself, and you refuse to look for Him or understand His presence, that's on you, not God.

It's a piece of bread. Literally no different in composition from another piece of bread. I'm going to have to stake my future existence on something more than that.

You asked why God doesn't show Himself to us, and I described an instance He does quite often. As everyone could already guess, the problem isn't God hiding, but you not believing He is there. The Eucharist is just one example of God revealing Himself.

Hakons wrote:

Hanafuridake wrote:
It would be easier if he just appeared in front of everyone and told them.

Go to a Mass and you can see God in front of you.

Does that mean they will see Vishnu if they visit a Hindu temple instead ?

Tarsonis wrote:

Hanafuridake wrote:
It's a piece of bread. Literally no different in composition from another piece of bread. I'm going to have to stake my future existence on something more than that.

You believe that the physical world is an illusion to begin with though don’t you? Is Transubstantiation that hard of a leap?

No, the physical world is very much real.

Hakons wrote:

Hanafuridake wrote:
It's a piece of bread. Literally no different in composition from another piece of bread. I'm going to have to stake my future existence on something more than that.

You asked why God doesn't show Himself to us, and I described an instance He does quite often. As everyone could already guess, the problem isn't God hiding, but you not believing He is there. The Eucharist is just one example of God revealing Himself.

You’re debating the Chicken and egg my friend

Hanafuridake wrote:

Tarsonis wrote:
You believe that the physical world is an illusion to begin with though don’t you? Is Transubstantiation that hard of a leap?

No, the physical world is very much real.

At the risk of derailing the thread, is not the goal of Buddhism to “pierce the veil” of reality and escape samsara?

Tarsonis wrote:

Hakons wrote:
You asked why God doesn't show Himself to us, and I described an instance He does quite often. As everyone could already guess, the problem isn't God hiding, but you not believing He is there. The Eucharist is just one example of God revealing Himself.

You’re debating the Chicken and egg my friend

No, he is arguing for Gods non-existence since transubstantation does not actually happen.for an objective observer. Not the best tactic, unless he is an undercover atheist.

Tarsonis wrote:

Hakons wrote:
You asked why God doesn't show Himself to us, and I described an instance He does quite often. As everyone could already guess, the problem isn't God hiding, but you not believing He is there. The Eucharist is just one example of God revealing Himself.

You’re debating the Chicken and egg my friend

Okay Tars, I'm sure you're totally convincing her with your arguments too

Tarsonis wrote:

New haven america wrote:1. Strange, so why is it that in every area those churches rule(d) over, gay people are almost always the first ones to experience the most discrimination in society,

1. because people suck.

and even those who repent or never take a partner are still believed to go to Hell by the Churches?

2. except again they aren’t, no matter how you keep trying to reword that statement it’s not correct.

You can try to deny this belief all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still a tradition and belief that's actively in use.

3. I don’t need to try and deny. I can prove it you’re wrong. Per the Catechism of the Catholic Church

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Slow your roll Quixote, those giants really are just windmills

2. Yeah, and that was the Uganda thread, not this one. How does that apply to this?

4. Seriously. That’s the best you can do?

3. The only reason it's about you is because you're the one who jumped to conclusions. You thought you knew what I was talking about, and ended up being completely wrong, as more than just gay people fit into the category of being created specifically to go to Hell.

5. I made a deduction based on your posting history. But all right, I’ll bight. 6. Tell me, since you weren’t referring to gays, who were you referring to?

1. Yes, that is true, and in this case, the churches had religious backing for their crappy behavior, the churches themselves.
2. Except they are, as can be seen by the tradition, history, and doctrines of every major sect and church in the world.
3. I mean, that sounds nice, but that doesn't change the fact that the Catholic has still murdered homosexuals for being homosexual for thousands of years, even the one's who remain chaste. Or does 1 Corinthians 6:9 not apply to the churches anymore?
4. Not my fault you don't know how to let things go. That sounds like more of a you problem, tbh. I personally try to separate individuals between their activities in threads as much as possible, as I can have an easier time understanding them and what they're saying as much as possible.
5. And your deduction ended up being wrong. Shocking.
6. And to add another layer to this, I was talking about gay people. And adulterers, and those who commit sodomy, and those with jealousy issues, and fornicators, and alcoholics, and the list goes on and on... It doesn't matter what those people do or how much they try to repent, because the official beliefs and doctrines of every major church and sect in the world says that they are damned.