The Christian Discussion Thread X: Originally there were 15

[Diarcesia]

If Rome had fallen, would you say the same?

He's right though. The amount people fetishize the Byzantine Empire is suspect.

One: There's an allure on Byzantium being the continuation of the Roman Empire after 476. It subverts the conventional expectations.
Two: It's Christian

[Angleter]

I wish the best of luck to the remaining c.3000 Greeks in Constantinople in wresting control of Istanbul from its c.15 million Turks.

I also wish the best of luck to all Nahuatl speakers in wresting control of Mexico City from the Spanish, and restoring Tenochtitlan to its rightful glory as capital of the Triple Alliance.

I wasn't referring to the Greeks in Constantinople; obviously they're powerless...even if all the Greeks of the World including the Diaspora, got together, it would not be feasible. It would require an exerted effort from the entire Orthodox World, particularly Russia, to pull off such an outcome. And I never said this was realistic; but it is nice to dream.

I mean, this is why I'd argue that 1922 is a bigger tragedy for the Greeks than 1453. It was the moment when a Greek, Orthodox Constantinople passed from dream to outright fantasy.

Of course, if people do want to see Istanbul become a Christian city again, they might want to try evangelising the Turks who live there.

[Diarcesia]

I wasn't referring to the Greeks in Constantinople; obviously they're powerless...even if all the Greeks of the World including the Diaspora, got together, it would not be feasible. It would require an exerted effort from the entire Orthodox World, particularly Russia, to pull off such an outcome. And I never said this was realistic; but it is nice to dream.

I mean, this is why I'd argue that 1922 is a bigger tragedy for the Greeks than 1453. It was the moment when a Greek, Orthodox Constantinople passed from dream to outright fantasy.

Of course, if people do want to see Istanbul become a Christian city again, they might want to try evangelising the Turks who live there.

Assuming my understanding is correct, isn't that how the Anatolians converted from Christianity to Islam before the population exchange?

[Neanderthaland]

Again, it’s just a city.

If Rome had fallen, would you say the same?

Somewhere Odoacer is spinning in his grave.

[Salus Maior]

If Rome had fallen, would you say the same?

He's right though. The amount people fetishize the Byzantine Empire is suspect.

You mean most of Orthodoxy?

[United Muscovite Nations]

He's right though. The amount people fetishize the Byzantine Empire is suspect.

You mean most of Orthodoxy?

Most Orthodox don't fetishize the Byzantine Empire.

[Diarcesia]

You mean most of Orthodoxy?

Most Orthodox don't fetishize the Byzantine Empire.

I'm curious, what do they think of it?

[United Muscovite Nations]

Most Orthodox don't fetishize the Byzantine Empire.

I'm curious, what do they think of it?

Most don't think too much about it. It fell centuries before any of us were born.

[Bienenhalde]

He's right though. The amount people fetishize the Byzantine Empire is suspect.

One: There's an allure on Byzantium being the continuation of the Roman Empire after 476. It subverts the conventional expectations.
Two: It's Christian

It was also one of the first empires in world history to be predominately Christian.

[Napkizemlja]

Aksum was the best Christian state tbh.

[Minachia]

Aksum was the best Christian state tbh.

How so?

Welcome to the CTD, btw.

[Napkizemlja]

Aksum was the best Christian state tbh.

How so?

Welcome to the CTD, btw.

Because it doesn't have enough fanboys wishing to restore its former glory, despite being a pretty well off and important kingdom for a good chunk of its history.

[Bienenhalde]

How so?

Welcome to the CTD, btw.

Because it doesn't have enough fanboys wishing to restore its former glory, despite being a pretty well off and important kingdom for a good chunk of its history.

Well, I also support the restoration of the Ethiopian monarchy, if that is any consolation.

[Minachia]

How so?

Welcome to the CTD, btw.

Because it doesn't have enough fanboys wishing to restore its former glory, despite being a pretty well off and important kingdom for a good chunk of its history.

So... not being appreciated = being the best?

[Kowani]

How so?

Welcome to the CTD, btw.

Because it doesn't have enough fanboys wishing to restore its former glory, despite being a pretty well off and important kingdom for a good chunk of its history.

To be fair , it’s an African state, and we all know how well known those are in the West. Heck, most people probably can’t name 6 modern African countries, let alone ancient ones.

[Australian rePublic]

So, what do you make of hadephobia?

[Korhal IVV]

Because it doesn't have enough fanboys wishing to restore its former glory, despite being a pretty well off and important kingdom for a good chunk of its history.

To be fair , it’s an African state, and we all know how well known those are in the West. Heck, most people probably can’t name 6 modern African countries, let alone ancient ones.

They probably only know about Wakanda.

[Tarsonis]

Because it doesn't have enough fanboys wishing to restore its former glory, despite being a pretty well off and important kingdom for a good chunk of its history.

To be fair , it’s an African state, and we all know how well known those are in the West. Heck, most people probably can’t name 6 modern African countries, let alone ancient ones.

I think you're selling people short, I could name about 17 off the top of my head, and when I looked at a map I saw a bunch that I knew, but just couldn't think of off the top of my head, like Ghana, can never remember that one.

[Nea Byzantia]

You mean most of Orthodoxy?

Most Orthodox don't fetishize the Byzantine Empire.

A lot of Greek ones do...and as a Greek, I'll be the first to admit its a major problem. Its nice to dream, its nice to mourn the passing of the good old days, but I know its hopeless, unless God somehow pulled off a miracle.

[Tarsonis]

Most Orthodox don't fetishize the Byzantine Empire.

A lot of Greek ones do...and as a Greek, I'll be the first to admit its a major problem. Its nice to dream, its nice to mourn the passing of the good old days, but I know its hopeless, unless God somehow pulled off a miracle.

The Greeks reclaiming Istanbul would be like the Mexicans reclaiming California. Just wouldn't work.

[Nea Byzantia]

A lot of Greek ones do...and as a Greek, I'll be the first to admit its a major problem. Its nice to dream, its nice to mourn the passing of the good old days, but I know its hopeless, unless God somehow pulled off a miracle.

The Greeks reclaiming Istanbul would be like the Mexicans reclaiming California. Just wouldn't work.

Yeah, but we're proud, nationalistic folk (https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/pew-c ... ity-europe)...Our Byzantine Syndrome; as personified by Patriarch Bartholomew and the Phanar in general, is a plague on the Greek Church; and its isolating us from the rest of the Orthodox World.

[Tarsonis]

The Greeks reclaiming Istanbul would be like the Mexicans reclaiming California. Just wouldn't work.

Yeah, but we're proud, nationalistic folk (https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/pew-c ... ity-europe)...Our Byzantine Syndrome; as personified by Patriarch Bartholomew and the Phanar in general, is a plague on the Greek Church; and its isolating us from the rest of the Orthodox World.

That same plague infects the entirety of the Orthodox Church

[Hanafuridake]

I'm kind of confused about Origen ー I've heard that he believed in some pretty strange things (at least from the perspective of Christian eschatology) such as that the devil would eventually be reconciled and people used to exist as disembodied rational souls outside of time before they stopped contemplating God and fell to earth, but he's still regarded as a prominent Church father. The strangest claim I've read is that he held that Jesus Christ was originally a soul like anyone else, but through his own free will, chose to remain with God and thus became identical with the Logos.

Is there something that I'm missing?

[Tarsonis]

I'm kind of confused about Origen ー I've heard that he believed in some pretty strange things (at least from the perspective of Christian eschatology) such as that the devil would eventually be reconciled and people used to exist as disembodied rational souls outside of time before they stopped contemplating God and fell to earth, but he's still regarded as a prominent Church father. The strangest claim I've read is that he held that Jesus Christ was originally a soul like anyone else, but through his own free will, chose to remain with God and thus became identical with the Logos.

Is there something that I'm missing?

Origen is complicated. Basically he was anathematized for some things he believed, so he cannot rightfully be considered a saint, but he pretty much wrote the book on hermeneutics, systematic theology, and christian scholarship he's important in that regard.

[Nea Byzantia]

Yeah, but we're proud, nationalistic folk (https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/pew-c ... ity-europe)...Our Byzantine Syndrome; as personified by Patriarch Bartholomew and the Phanar in general, is a plague on the Greek Church; and its isolating us from the rest of the Orthodox World.

That same plague infects the entirety of the Orthodox Church

No it doesn't. The Russians, Serbs, and others are not obsessed with rebuilding the Byzantine Empire. The Greeks are.