I mean he got banned for trolling before he did it, but...ummm...
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by Luminesa » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:50 pm
by Auristania » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:34 am
by The Archregimancy » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:27 am
by Tarsonis » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:00 am
The Archregimancy wrote:For clarity, I was simply characterising the actionable nature of GnosticChristian's posts, and stating that it wasn't typical for this thread. The ban is officially for flaming, but it could also be functionally characterised as trollspamming given his behaviour over the last few pages. I doubt either point is particularly controversial.
As per my usual policy regarding this thread, I took no action against GnosticChristian, wasn't involved in the decision to ban GnosticChristian, nor did I report GnosticChristian. However, it looks like I should expand that policy to also not even commenting on action taken by my colleagues given the potential for misunderstanding.
I believe Blaat was only gently teasing me; but given subsequent reaction, clearly I need to tread even more carefully.
by Diopolis » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:41 pm
Minzerland II wrote:Doesn’t the Catholic Church affirm a literal Adam, Eve and Fall, Tarsonis? Correct me if I am wrong.
by Luminesa » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:01 pm
The Archregimancy wrote:For clarity, I was simply characterising the actionable nature of GnosticChristian's posts, and stating that it wasn't typical for this thread. The ban is officially for flaming, but it could also be functionally characterised as trollspamming given his behaviour over the last few pages. I doubt either point is particularly controversial.
As per my usual policy regarding this thread, I took no action against GnosticChristian, wasn't involved in the decision to ban GnosticChristian, nor did I report GnosticChristian. However, it looks like I should expand that policy to also not even commenting on action taken by my colleagues given the potential for misunderstanding.
I believe Blaat was only gently teasing me; but given subsequent reaction, clearly I need to tread even more carefully.
by Salus Maior » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:52 pm
Stonok wrote:Can someone explain the Ukrainian Orthodox Church's schism to me? Is it purely rooted in Ukrainian-Russian politics or is there really a Christian justification for it?
by Stonok » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:22 pm
Salus Maior wrote:Stonok wrote:Can someone explain the Ukrainian Orthodox Church's schism to me? Is it purely rooted in Ukrainian-Russian politics or is there really a Christian justification for it?
It's politics.
Ukrainian Nationalists want an autocephalous church of their own, so they split from the Russian Patriarchate (illegally, honestly).
by Salus Maior » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:48 pm
by Salus Maior » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:16 am
by Tarsonis » Sun Jan 13, 2019 11:04 am
by Salus Maior » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:39 pm
by Pope Joan » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:49 pm
Salus Maior wrote:Stonok wrote:That sounds like quite literally letting the World control the Church. I do hope they know what they're doing.
No, they're the worst. Nationalist groups have been terrorizing churches that don't want to break from the Russian Patriarchate for a few years now, it's disgraceful.
by The Eternal Aulus » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:19 pm
Pope Joan wrote:Salus Maior wrote:
No, they're the worst. Nationalist groups have been terrorizing churches that don't want to break from the Russian Patriarchate for a few years now, it's disgraceful.
It seems to be a common Christian failing. I myself distrust any large agglomeration of authority, secular or religious. Merger mania did a lot of harm to the Methodists, when I was one, and then to the Mennonites, now that I am one. The more congregational autonomy, the better. Use central authority for ordination and education, including seminaries. Let everything else be just as if it we a go-fund-me, including missions and disaster relief. We do just fine that way. E. Stanley Jones was denied the approval of the Methodist Board of Missions so he accepted the support of the Methodist Women and went to India where he had astounding success, establishing interfaith ashrams and roundtables, making peace between faiths including Hindu and Muslim, dialoging with Gandhi.
THEN the Methodists said they would support him and call him an official Methodist missionary. He said no thanks. he would happily continue as an unofficial missionary of the Methodist Women.
by Salus Maior » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:24 pm
The Eternal Aulus wrote:Pope Joan wrote:
It seems to be a common Christian failing. I myself distrust any large agglomeration of authority, secular or religious. Merger mania did a lot of harm to the Methodists, when I was one, and then to the Mennonites, now that I am one. The more congregational autonomy, the better. Use central authority for ordination and education, including seminaries. Let everything else be just as if it we a go-fund-me, including missions and disaster relief. We do just fine that way. E. Stanley Jones was denied the approval of the Methodist Board of Missions so he accepted the support of the Methodist Women and went to India where he had astounding success, establishing interfaith ashrams and roundtables, making peace between faiths including Hindu and Muslim, dialoging with Gandhi.
THEN the Methodists said they would support him and call him an official Methodist missionary. He said no thanks. he would happily continue as an unofficial missionary of the Methodist Women.
Religious institutions are as only good as an institute which can bargain with the state for the rights and liberties for their followers. But deciding what to belief and what not to believe? I don't think it's a healthy recipe for a religious institution these days unless they have a historic tendency to do so.
by The Eternal Aulus » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:26 pm
Salus Maior wrote:The Eternal Aulus wrote:Religious institutions are as only good as an institute which can bargain with the state for the rights and liberties for their followers. But deciding what to belief and what not to believe? I don't think it's a healthy recipe for a religious institution these days unless they have a historic tendency to do so.
The schism between Moscow and Ukraine isn't theological, it's organizational. and based in matters of church authority.
While that doesn't sound that bad, in practice it's very messy and Ukraine's pulling a lot of garbage in doing so.
by Tarsonis » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:17 pm
by Salus Maior » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:35 pm
The Eternal Aulus wrote: Honestly, I think it's a good thing on the long term.
by The Archregimancy » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:43 pm
Tarsonis wrote:Ukraine is pulling some shady stuff lately, but given Russia’s history with them I find it hard to blame them
by The Archregimancy » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:51 pm
Salus Maior wrote:The Eternal Aulus wrote: Honestly, I think it's a good thing on the long term.
Not when it comes to the Orthodox Church and how it structures itself.
In the past, autocephaly was something that a mother church would give to its offspring church (such as when Constantinople gave autocephaly to the Russian Church) of its own goodwill.
by Luminesa » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:32 pm
The Archregimancy wrote:Salus Maior wrote:
Not when it comes to the Orthodox Church and how it structures itself.
In the past, autocephaly was something that a mother church would give to its offspring church (such as when Constantinople gave autocephaly to the Russian Church) of its own goodwill.
That's not really correct.
Up until the 19th century, there was almost no precedent for nationalist autocephaly. With the exceptions of tGeorgia and Russia, both of which had a more historical basis, modern national autocephaly was far more often extracted unwillingly from Constantinople by the newly founded nations that rose in the wake of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. As I wrote in my last post, it sometimes took decades for Constantinople to recognise these new churches; it certainly wasn't something that was willingly granted to an offspring church - though that did occasionally happen.
What's happening in Ukraine now is a 21st-century repetition of what happened to Constantinople in the Balkans; though with a dash of modern power politics over whether functional leadership of Orthodoxy should be exercised by the traditional primus inter pares or the Patriarch who leads the demographically largest constituent church.
by Bienenhalde » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:39 pm
Salus Maior wrote:Stonok wrote:Can someone explain the Ukrainian Orthodox Church's schism to me? Is it purely rooted in Ukrainian-Russian politics or is there really a Christian justification for it?
It's politics.
Ukrainian Nationalists want an autocephalous church of their own, so they split from the Russian Patriarchate (illegally, honestly).
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