NationStates

Australian rePublic wrote:Don't forget, kids. The story of Jephthah's daughter should serve as a reminder to not make spasmodic promises to God...

Or in general.

Kowani wrote:

Luminesa wrote:You have to choose atheism in order to be an atheist...

Atheism: Lack of belief in any gods.
Babies: Don't believe in any Gods. Heck, they don't even have the concept of a God.
You have to teach Children about your religion for them to become religious. Now, my anti-theism is learned, and in that you would be correct, but one is technically born atheist.

I don't think not having the capacity to believe in something and choosing not to believe in something are the same thing.

While babies may not know something, doesn't make them not open to that thing. They'd be more like born agnostic, I.E not knowing, rather than dogmatically denying something like Atheists.

A similar argument would be "Babies don't know the earth is round, therefore all people are born flat earthers!". Which I think we'd both think is a stupid remark.

Salus Maior wrote:

Kowani wrote:Atheism: Lack of belief in any gods.
Babies: Don't believe in any Gods. Heck, they don't even have the concept of a God.
You have to teach Children about your religion for them to become religious. Now, my anti-theism is learned, and in that you would be correct, but one is technically born atheist.

I don't think having the capacity to believe in something and choosing to believe in something are the same thing.

While babies may not know something, doesn't make them not open to that thing. They'd be more like born agnostic, I.E not knowing, rather than dogmatically denying something like Atheists.

Agnostic is a statement about knowledge. Atheistic a statement about belief. The pope is an agnostic theist.

Someone who lacks faith is an atheist. Even if they are oprn to conversion.

The Grims wrote:

Salus Maior wrote:
I don't think having the capacity to believe in something and choosing to believe in something are the same thing.

While babies may not know something, doesn't make them not open to that thing. They'd be more like born agnostic, I.E not knowing, rather than dogmatically denying something like Atheists.

Agnostic is a statement about knowledge. Atheistic a statement about belief. The pope is an agnostic theist.

Someone who lacks faith is an atheist. Even if they are oprn to conversion.

> The pope is an agnostic theist.

Uhhhhhhh whut?

The Grims wrote:

Salus Maior wrote:
I don't think having the capacity to believe in something and choosing to believe in something are the same thing.

While babies may not know something, doesn't make them not open to that thing. They'd be more like born agnostic, I.E not knowing, rather than dogmatically denying something like Atheists.

Agnostic is a statement about knowledge. Atheistic a statement about belief. The pope is an agnostic theist.

Someone who lacks faith is an atheist. Even if they are oprn to conversion.

Sure, but we don't come into the world knowing or believing anything so I don't see what the point is.

You could easily say that "babies don't believe the world is round, therefore all people are born flat earthers!" and have just as much of a point.

Salus Maior wrote:

Kowani wrote:Atheism: Lack of belief in any gods.
Babies: Don't believe in any Gods. Heck, they don't even have the concept of a God.
You have to teach Children about your religion for them to become religious. Now, my anti-theism is learned, and in that you would be correct, but one is technically born atheist.

I don't think not having the capacity to believe in something and choosing not to believe in something are the same thing.

While babies may not know something, doesn't make them not open to that thing. They'd be more like born agnostic, I.E not knowing, rather than dogmatically denying something like Atheists.

A similar argument would be "Babies don't know the earth is round, therefore all people are born flat earthers!". Which I think we'd both think is a stupid remark.

A baby does not have the conscious ability to form religious beliefs. They can’t be open to an abstract concept like faith or religion if they have not developed an ability for it yet.

Salus Maior wrote:

Kowani wrote:Atheism: Lack of belief in any gods.
Babies: Don't believe in any Gods. Heck, they don't even have the concept of a God.
You have to teach Children about your religion for them to become religious. Now, my anti-theism is learned, and in that you would be correct, but one is technically born atheist.

I don't think not having the capacity to believe in something and choosing not to believe in something are the same thing.

While babies may not know something, doesn't make them not open to that thing. They'd be more like born agnostic, I.E not knowing, rather than dogmatically denying something like Atheists.

A similar argument would be "Babies don't know the earth is round, therefore all people are born flat earthers!". Which I think we'd both think is a stupid remark.

If I don’t entirely understand how evolution works, it doesn’t suddenly make me a Creationist. I’d just need to read about Evolution.

Salus Maior wrote:

Kowani wrote:Atheism: Lack of belief in any gods.
Babies: Don't believe in any Gods. Heck, they don't even have the concept of a God.
You have to teach Children about your religion for them to become religious. Now, my anti-theism is learned, and in that you would be correct, but one is technically born atheist.

I don't think not having the capacity to believe in something and choosing not to believe in something are the same thing.

While babies may not know something, doesn't make them not open to that thing. They'd be more like born agnostic, I.E not knowing, rather than dogmatically denying something like Atheists.

A similar argument would be "Babies don't know the earth is round, therefore all people are born flat earthers!". Which I think we'd both think is a stupid remark.

Not true, as babies don't know the world is flat, either. They don't have a concept of "World." It may not be atheism in the same way that mine is, where I became atheistic after a while (although you don't just choose to believe or not believe, but not going down that path right now), but it is still technically atheism. Is it pretty much meaningless? There's an argument to be made about indoctrination, but not doing that right now either.

Kowani wrote:

Salus Maior wrote:
I don't think not having the capacity to believe in something and choosing not to believe in something are the same thing.

While babies may not know something, doesn't make them not open to that thing. They'd be more like born agnostic, I.E not knowing, rather than dogmatically denying something like Atheists.

A similar argument would be "Babies don't know the earth is round, therefore all people are born flat earthers!". Which I think we'd both think is a stupid remark.

Not true, as babies don't know the world is flat, either. They don't have a concept of "World." It may not be atheism in the same way that mine is, where I became atheistic after a while (although you don't just choose to believe or not believe, but not going down that path right now), but it is still technically atheism. Is it pretty much meaningless? There's an argument to be made about indoctrination, but not doing that right now either.

...This is a lot of contradictions that only lead to more questions...

Luminesa wrote:

Kowani wrote:Not true, as babies don't know the world is flat, either. They don't have a concept of "World." It may not be atheism in the same way that mine is, where I became atheistic after a while (although you don't just choose to believe or not believe, but not going down that path right now), but it is still technically atheism. Is it pretty much meaningless? There's an argument to be made about indoctrination, but not doing that right now either.

...This is a lot of contradictions that only lead to more questions...

Eh. I'm tired. Don't take half of what I say seriously.

Kowani wrote:

Salus Maior wrote:
I don't think not having the capacity to believe in something and choosing not to believe in something are the same thing.

While babies may not know something, doesn't make them not open to that thing. They'd be more like born agnostic, I.E not knowing, rather than dogmatically denying something like Atheists.

A similar argument would be "Babies don't know the earth is round, therefore all people are born flat earthers!". Which I think we'd both think is a stupid remark.

Not true, as babies don't know the world is flat, either. They don't have a concept of "World." It may not be atheism in the same way that mine is, where I became atheistic after a while (although you don't just choose to believe or not believe, but not going down that path right now), but it is still technically atheism. Is it pretty much meaningless? There's an argument to be made about indoctrination, but not doing that right now either.

All learning can be construed as "indoctrination". Everything you get in life in terms of knowledge you get from another authority. So, I guess the further argument is, is what you're learning beneficial to you? And when it comes to Christianity I'd say yes, it is. And is it true? There is a strong argument for that as well.

Salus Maior wrote:

Kowani wrote:Not true, as babies don't know the world is flat, either. They don't have a concept of "World." It may not be atheism in the same way that mine is, where I became atheistic after a while (although you don't just choose to believe or not believe, but not going down that path right now), but it is still technically atheism. Is it pretty much meaningless? There's an argument to be made about indoctrination, but not doing that right now either.

All learning can be construed as "indoctrination". Everything you get in life in terms of knowledge you get from another authority.

Eh, fair.
So, I guess the further argument is, is what you're learning beneficial to you? And when it comes to Christianity I'd say yes, it is. And is it true? There is a strong argument for that as well.[/quote] Now, see that's where we disagree. I won't deny that Christianity has some good ideas. I also believe it has some bad ones.

And as for veracity...I don't think I need to go in-depth on this one.

Salus Maior wrote:

Kowani wrote:Not true, as babies don't know the world is flat, either. They don't have a concept of "World." It may not be atheism in the same way that mine is, where I became atheistic after a while (although you don't just choose to believe or not believe, but not going down that path right now), but it is still technically atheism. Is it pretty much meaningless? There's an argument to be made about indoctrination, but not doing that right now either.

All learning can be construed as "indoctrination". Everything you get in life in terms of knowledge you get from another authority. So, I guess the further argument is, is what you're learning beneficial to you? And when it comes to Christianity I'd say yes, it is. And is it true? There is a strong argument for that as well.

Stronger than for e.g..hinduism, islam or wicca ?

Hi all.

I wanted to asks, what's everyone's fav bible quotes, maybe life protips and the such?

I've been trying to find some to bookmark in my bible.

The Grims wrote:

Salus Maior wrote:
All learning can be construed as "indoctrination". Everything you get in life in terms of knowledge you get from another authority. So, I guess the further argument is, is what you're learning beneficial to you? And when it comes to Christianity I'd say yes, it is. And is it true? There is a strong argument for that as well.

Stronger than for e.g..hinduism, islam or wicca ?

For Wicca definitely. For Hinduism and Islam? I’d say yes

Tarsonis wrote:

The Grims wrote:
Stronger than for e.g..hinduism, islam or wicca ?

For Wicca definitely. For Hinduism and Islam? I’d say yes

Like ..?
Because in the "do you believe in God" thread I see a lot of people arguing why their faith is better than atheism, but nothing on why they chose their particular faith over others . Despite me and others repeatedly asking for it. It is almost like people just embraced the first religion they came across and stopped thinking... which hopefully is untrue.

The Grims wrote:

Tarsonis wrote:
For Wicca definitely. For Hinduism and Islam? I’d say yes

Like ..?
Because in the "do you believe in God" thread I see a lot of people arguing why their faith is better than atheism, but nothing on why they chose their particular faith over others . Despite me and others repeatedly asking for it. It is almost like people just embraced the first religion they came across and stopped thinking... which hopefully is untrue.

Wicca was made up in the 20th century by the same types of people who made up DL's Gnostic Christianity, spiritualists who have a romantic view of the past and invent a religion only very loosely based on the source material.

For Islam and Mormonism I studied the lives and proclamations of Muhammad and Joseph Smith, and concluded they're basically the same thing: false prophets who invented a religion for personal gain.

For Eastern religions I found their cosmological concepts of Samsara and Karma inadequate.

Elenir wrote:Hi all.

I wanted to asks, what's everyone's fav bible quotes, maybe life protips and the such?

I've been trying to find some to bookmark in my bible.

John 16:33. “I have said these things to you that you may have peace. In the world you will have trouble, but fear not, for I have conquered the world.”
Isaiah 62:1. “For Zion’s sake I will not be silent. For Jerusalem’s sake I will not be quiet. Until her vindication shines like the dawn, and her victory like a burning torch.”

Okay so I have a question. Many times when debating homosexuality a common point against it is something along the lines of saying it´s a sin. So my question is there a part of the bible that actually states homosexuality to be a sin?

Elenir wrote:Hi all.

I wanted to asks, what's everyone's fav bible quotes, maybe life protips and the such?

I've been trying to find some to bookmark in my bible.

These aren't just single-verse quotes, but the resonate with me.

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Then the righteous will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’
And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’ -- Matthew 25: 37-40


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As he passed by he saw a man blind from birth
His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
Jesus answered, “Neither he nor his parents sinned; it is so that the works of God might be made visible through him. -- John 9: 1-3


Andsed wrote:Okay so I have a question. Many times when debating homosexuality a common point against it is something along the lines of saying it´s a sin. So my question is there a part of the bible that actually states homosexuality to be a sin?

What is a sin?

Tarsonis wrote:

The Grims wrote:
Stronger than for e.g..hinduism, islam or wicca ?

For Wicca definitely. For Hinduism and Islam? I’d say yes

Could you elaborate?

Menassa wrote:

Andsed wrote:Okay so I have a question. Many times when debating homosexuality a common point against it is something along the lines of saying it´s a sin. So my question is there a part of the bible that actually states homosexuality to be a sin?

What is a sin?

Let me rephrase myself. Is there any part of the bible that says that homosexuality is wrong. I am asking because of one of the more common reason I have seen someone opposing homosexuality use is religion.

Andsed wrote:

Menassa wrote:What is a sin?

Let me rephrase myself. Is there any part of the bible that says that homosexuality is wrong. I am asking because of one of the more common reason I have seen someone opposing homosexuality use is religion.

There are certainly parts of the Bible that state male homosexuality is frowned upon in the eyes of God.

Menassa wrote:

Andsed wrote:Let me rephrase myself. Is there any part of the bible that says that homosexuality is wrong. I am asking because of one of the more common reason I have seen someone opposing homosexuality use is religion.

There are certainly parts of the Bible that state male homosexuality is frowned upon in the eyes of God.

Ah I am guessing these parts are not commonly preached in churches?