The Christian Discussion Thread X: Originally there were 15

[The Archregimancy]

There is no 'assumption'.

There is only the Dormition of the Theotokos; or, if you prefer, the Dormition of our Most Holy Lady the Mother of God and Ever-Virgin Mary.

We both know that the Assumption is part of the Dormition belief; the relevant Catholic dogma simply doesn't define whether the Dormition occurred before the Assumption.

Except we don't both know that.

If it helps Catholics to sleep at night to think that they're mostly the same thing, then suit yourselves; but we would have a different perspective.

[Diopolis]

We both know that the Assumption is part of the Dormition belief; the relevant Catholic dogma simply doesn't define whether the Dormition occurred before the Assumption.

Except we don't both know that.

If it helps Catholics to sleep at night to think that they're mostly the same thing, then suit yourselves; but we would have a different perspective.

Your beliefs on the Dormition are well within that allowed by Catholic Dogma on the Assumption.

[Lord Dominator]

I've ended up taking a NIV pocket Bible of sorts, and a (Lutheran) Study Bible version of the ESV.
This seems strange to me somehow

[Benuty]

So I have been attending an Episcopalian service with a friend for a few weeks, and has been quite riveting. Despite personal politics the architecture is quite gorgeous.

[Kowani]

Well, in shitty news, we got the Pennsylvania Grand Jury calling out the Catholic Church for the 70 year pattern of sexual assault and subsequent coverups.

https://cbspittsburgh.files.wordpress.c ... ponses.pdf

And by shitty, I mean both the fact that the abuse happened, and the really deep systemic corruption built into the church. See, this sort of thing is why the Catholic Church isn’t the most trusted organization in the West. Now, these abusive priests are obviously not representative of all Catholics. However, they do show quite a few problems within the Church, as well as its hierarchy.

The Grand Jury also wants to release the names of the abusers, despite the statute of limitations having expired. Now, personally, I’m all for it. You abused children, and although you can’t be charged because it happened years ago, that’s no reason why you should get off scot-free. Personally, I believe that for sexual abuse against minors, there should be no statute of limitations, but I feel like that’d be a whole other debate.

[Tarsonis]

Well, in shitty news, we got the Pennsylvania Grand Jury calling out the Catholic Church for the 70 year pattern of sexual assault and subsequent coverups.

https://cbspittsburgh.files.wordpress.c ... ponses.pdf

And by shitty, I mean both the fact that the abuse happened, and the really deep systemic corruption built into the church. See, this sort of thing is why the Catholic Church isn’t the most trusted organization in the West. Now, these abusive priests are obviously not representative of all Catholics. However, they do show quite a few problems within the Church, as well as its hierarchy.

The Grand Jury also wants to release the names of the abusers, despite the statute of limitations having expired. Now, personally, I’m all for it. You abused children, and although you can’t be charged because it happened years ago, that’s no reason why you should get off scot-free. Personally, I believe that for sexual abuse against minors, there should be no statute of limitations, but I feel like that’d be a whole other debate.

This is why we need to allow priests to marry

[Hakons]

I've moved into my college dorm and have settled down enough to have time to post again. As you know I have the intention of converting to Catholicism, though I'm not really sure how to get the ball rolling. Should I just walk to a nearby Church and ask about mass times? Should I try to find a Catholic friend to go with? Should I contact a local Church by email/phone and ask them what I should do?

This is why we need to allow priests to marry

Why? Celibacy doesn't make one a pedophile.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I've moved into my college dorm and have settled down enough to have time to post again. As you know I have the intention of converting to Catholicism, though I'm not really sure how to get the ball rolling. Should I just walk to a nearby Church and ask about mass times? Should I try to find a Catholic friend to go with? Should I contact a local Church by email/phone and ask them what I should do?

This is why we need to allow priests to marry

Why? Celibacy doesn't make one a pedophile.

It's not exactly groundbreaking psychology that intense social and sexual isolation (which Catholic priests have time-and-time again been shown to suffer from in every medical study done on them) leads to stranger and stranger sexual interests, as well as to damage of an individual's ability to judge right and wrong.

[Lord Dominator]

Well, in shitty news, we got the Pennsylvania Grand Jury calling out the Catholic Church for the 70 year pattern of sexual assault and subsequent coverups.

https://cbspittsburgh.files.wordpress.c ... ponses.pdf

And by shitty, I mean both the fact that the abuse happened, and the really deep systemic corruption built into the church. See, this sort of thing is why the Catholic Church isn’t the most trusted organization in the West. Now, these abusive priests are obviously not representative of all Catholics. However, they do show quite a few problems within the Church, as well as its hierarchy.

The Grand Jury also wants to release the names of the abusers, despite the statute of limitations having expired. Now, personally, I’m all for it. You abused children, and although you can’t be charged because it happened years ago, that’s no reason why you should get off scot-free. Personally, I believe that for sexual abuse against minors, there should be no statute of limitations, but I feel like that’d be a whole other debate.

This is why we need to allow priests to marry

Shall we nail some more theses to a door?

[Salus Maior]

This is why we need to allow priests to marry

Protestant preachers and Rabbis can be married, and sexual abuse and scandals still happen.

Rescinding celibacy isn't going to fix all the Catholic Church's problems in this regard.

[United Muscovite Nations]

This is why we need to allow priests to marry

Protestant preachers and Rabbis can be married, and sexual abuse and scandals still happen.

Rescinding celibacy isn't going to fix all the Catholic Church's problems in this regard.

Not at the same rate as Catholic priests.

[Pasong Tirad]

Protestant preachers and Rabbis can be married, and sexual abuse and scandals still happen.

Rescinding celibacy isn't going to fix all the Catholic Church's problems in this regard.

Not at the same rate as Catholic priests.

What's different isn't so much the ceilbacy (which I have no doubt will help lower rates of abuse) but the institution itself, which has had enough political clout over the years to cover up the abuses. Like Spotlight.

[Salus Maior]

Protestant preachers and Rabbis can be married, and sexual abuse and scandals still happen.

Rescinding celibacy isn't going to fix all the Catholic Church's problems in this regard.

Not at the same rate as Catholic priests.

What sources are you using?

[United Muscovite Nations]

Not at the same rate as Catholic priests.

What sources are you using?

For one thing, if the 301 priests really did do it, and we have reason to believe so, that's an enormous fraction of the priests in the state of Pennsylvania. And not only is it a massive amount, but we have Catholic hierarchy covering up and approving of the abuse.

[Hakons]

What sources are you using?

For one thing, if the 301 priests really did do it, and we have reason to believe so, that's an enormous fraction of the priests in the state of Pennsylvania. And not only is it a massive amount, but we have Catholic hierarchy covering up and approving of the abuse.

Yes, it's horrendous. I can't imagine how priests, well knowledged in the faith, committed such aggregious sins. I can't imagine how bishops and other officials could ignore these obvious corruptions in their flock.

[Tarsonis]

I've moved into my college dorm and have settled down enough to have time to post again. As you know I have the intention of converting to Catholicism, though I'm not really sure how to get the ball rolling. Should I just walk to a nearby Church and ask about mass times? Should I try to find a Catholic friend to go with? Should I contact a local Church by email/phone and ask them what I should do?

This is why we need to allow priests to marry

Why? Celibacy doesn't make one a pedophile.

Not so much that as that as the difficult position the Church finds itself in. In the US there’s currently a shortage of priests. In my district alone, parishes that serve a couple dozen thousand have been folded under one main parish due to lack of priests able to cover them.

The Church then finds itself having to make the decision of reprimanding the priests in house and preserving the priests they have, or defrocking and turning the priests over exacerbating the priest shortage. By removing the discipline of celibacy as a a requirement and allowing married Catholics to become priests, the Church could solve their numbers issue in a few months and not be in such a weak position to turn over priests.

[Tarsonis]

For one thing, if the 301 priests really did do it, and we have reason to believe so, that's an enormous fraction of the priests in the state of Pennsylvania. And not only is it a massive amount, but we have Catholic hierarchy covering up and approving of the abuse.

Yes, it's horrendous. I can't imagine how priests, well knowledged in the faith, committed such aggregious sins. I can't imagine how bishops and other officials could ignore these obvious corruptions in their flock.

Really comes down to the fact that we’re not donatists

[Northern Davincia]

For one thing, if the 301 priests really did do it, and we have reason to believe so, that's an enormous fraction of the priests in the state of Pennsylvania. And not only is it a massive amount, but we have Catholic hierarchy covering up and approving of the abuse.

Yes, it's horrendous. I can't imagine how priests, well knowledged in the faith, committed such aggregious sins. I can't imagine how bishops and other officials could ignore these obvious corruptions in their flock.

Priesthood at any level is, ultimately, a position of power. It is a shame that some cannot uphold themselves.

[The Alma Mater]

Why? Celibacy doesn't make one a pedophile.

True. And Catholic priests seldomn are pedophiles - just sadists on a powertrip who enjoy the weakness of their prey. They do not want to fuck kids because they are overcome with lust of love for them - but because they can.

Something in the church attracts those people.

[Salus Maior]

Tbh I think part of why things have gotten so bad is due to how sexualized culture has become.

[The Alma Mater]

Tbh I think part of why things have gotten so bad is due to how sexualized culture has become.

Doubtful. The Catholic Church has been a hotbed of powerabuse and rape throughout its entire history.

[Northern Davincia]

Tbh I think part of why things have gotten so bad is due to how sexualized culture has become.

Doubtful. The Catholic Church has been a hotbed of powerabuse and rape throughout its entire history.

It's hard to discern how it compares from then to now.

[Kowani]

Tbh I think part of why things have gotten so bad is due to how sexualized culture has become.

...Even in cultures where sexuality is seen as a bad thing, shit like this happens, and worse. With the exception of Sweden, the 10 countries with most rape live in abject poverty. Plus, even in the US, the amount of rape and sexual assault has gone down. According to a March 2013 report from the U.S. Department of Justice's Bureau of Justice Statistics, from 1995 to 2010, the estimated annual rate of female rape or sexual assault declined 58%, from 5.0 victimizations per 1,000 females age 12 or older to 2.1 per 1,000. Assaults on young women aged 12–17 declined from 11.3 per 1,000 in 1994-1998 to 4.1 per 1,000 in 2005-2010; assaults on women aged 18–34 also declined over the same period, from 7.0 per 1,000 to 3.7.

Over the last four decades, rape has been declining. According to the National Crime Victimization Survey, the adjusted per-capita victimization rate of rape has declined from about 2.4 per 1000 people (age 12 and above) in 1980 (that is, 2.4 persons from each 1000 people 12 and older were raped during that year) to about 0.4 per 1000 people, a decline of about 85%.

Note that pedophilia is different from rape, but the claim that culture becoming more accepting of sex and sexuality is not really the cause. Case in point, all of the countries with the highest rape rates (with the exception of Sweden) are all heavily Christian, and most of them are Catholic as well.


https://data.unicef.org/topic/child-pro ... -violence/
Note that most of those cultures are very misogynistic, and sexuality is not seen as something good. Another thing of importance is poverty. Note that sexuality is not bad per se, but the idea that a woman’s body is not hers to control is widespread.

[The Alma Mater]

Doubtful. The Catholic Church has been a hotbed of powerabuse and rape throughout its entire history.

It's hard to discern how it compares from then to now.

I actually think it is BETTER now. But nowadays people dare to speak out against the church and media dares to report on it - so it seems worse.

[Northern Davincia]

Tbh I think part of why things have gotten so bad is due to how sexualized culture has become.

...Even in cultures where sexuality is seen as a bad thing, shit like this happens, and worse. With the exception of Sweden, the 10 countries with most rape live in abject poverty. Plus, even in the US, the amount of rape and sexual assault has gone down. According to a March 2013 report from the U.S. Department of Justice's Bureau of Justice Statistics, from 1995 to 2010, the estimated annual rate of female rape or sexual assault declined 58%, from 5.0 victimizations per 1,000 females age 12 or older to 2.1 per 1,000. Assaults on young women aged 12–17 declined from 11.3 per 1,000 in 1994-1998 to 4.1 per 1,000 in 2005-2010; assaults on women aged 18–34 also declined over the same period, from 7.0 per 1,000 to 3.7.

Over the last four decades, rape has been declining. According to the National Crime Victimization Survey, the adjusted per-capita victimization rate of rape has declined from about 2.4 per 1000 people (age 12 and above) in 1980 (that is, 2.4 persons from each 1000 people 12 and older were raped during that year) to about 0.4 per 1000 people, a decline of about 85%.

Note that pedophilia is different from rape, but the claim that culture becoming more accepting of sex and sexuality is not really the cause. Case in point, all of the countries with the highest rape rates (with the exception of Sweden) are all heavily Christian, and most of them are Catholic as well.


https://data.unicef.org/topic/child-pro ... -violence/
Note that most of those cultures are very misogynistic, and sexuality is not seen as something good. Another thing of importance is poverty. Note that sexuality is not bad per se, but the idea that a woman’s body is not hers to control is widespread.

Can you give the list of nations here? Last I checked the major countries in terms of rape were in Africa or the Middle East.