The Christian Discussion Thread X: Originally there were 15

[Narland]

Probably best he never takes it anyway. If he accidentally wrote something like "2+2=3", the entire universe might collapse.

Theoretically*

I read a sci-fi short story as a kid where an inquisitive plebe had discovered that 2+2=4. The authorities tried to shut him up with harsh punishment as this was counterproductive to civilization. But it was too late. As realization of this discovery of spread amongst the population, all of the technology started to fail. Mountains erupted into volcanoes, and the island of ancient Atlantis sank into the ocean never to be seen again.

Thankfully, God cannot make mistakes.

[Neanderthaland]

Theoretically*

I read a sci-fi short story as a kid where an inquisitive plebe had discovered that 2+2=4. The authorities tried to shut him up with harsh punishment as this was counterproductive to civilization. But it was too late. As realization of this discovery of spread amongst the population, all of the technology started to fail. Mountains erupted into volcanoes, and the island of ancient Atlantis sank into the ocean never to be seen again.

Thankfully, God cannot make mistakes.

I mean, that's what everyone says... but have you seen the aye-aye?

[Nouveau Quebecois]

I read a sci-fi short story as a kid where an inquisitive plebe had discovered that 2+2=4. The authorities tried to shut him up with harsh punishment as this was counterproductive to civilization. But it was too late. As realization of this discovery of spread amongst the population, all of the technology started to fail. Mountains erupted into volcanoes, and the island of ancient Atlantis sank into the ocean never to be seen again.

Thankfully, God cannot make mistakes.

I mean, that's what everyone says... but have you seen the aye-aye?

... Damn.

[Lord Dominator]

FiveThirtyEight recently had a good article on the subject of 'why'

The tl;dr seems to work out to younger generations not being raised as religious as older ones were, and thus less inclined to be religious later in life

That makes the most sense. The world has changed and is not as friendly to people raising their kids religious.

I don't think it had to do with that, at least unless the presumption is that that attitude started in the 80s or so (given that the 538 article is about millennials)

[Salus Maior]

I read a sci-fi short story as a kid where an inquisitive plebe had discovered that 2+2=4. The authorities tried to shut him up with harsh punishment as this was counterproductive to civilization. But it was too late. As realization of this discovery of spread amongst the population, all of the technology started to fail. Mountains erupted into volcanoes, and the island of ancient Atlantis sank into the ocean never to be seen again.

Thankfully, God cannot make mistakes.

I mean, that's what everyone says... but have you seen the aye-aye?

Let the poor guy eat nectar in peace :[

[Tarsonis]

I read a sci-fi short story as a kid where an inquisitive plebe had discovered that 2+2=4. The authorities tried to shut him up with harsh punishment as this was counterproductive to civilization. But it was too late. As realization of this discovery of spread amongst the population, all of the technology started to fail. Mountains erupted into volcanoes, and the island of ancient Atlantis sank into the ocean never to be seen again.

Thankfully, God cannot make mistakes.

I mean, that's what everyone says... but have you seen the aye-aye?

Yeah, that one’s intentional. Try to wrap your mind around that one.

[Lower Nubia]

Per Pew, Christians make up 65% of people in the U.S. Now, down from 77% a decade ago.

https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in- ... apid-pace/

Any speculation about what's behind the rapid decline?

Few people who identify as Christians take their religion seriously. They find a new label as soon as it is convenient.

This. After the cultural Christians are gone, we should be left with people who genuinely want to go to Church. Roughly 3 - 10% of the population. The Death of Christian Britain by Callum Brown is a good book on the subject.

[Lost Memories]

Few people who identify as Christians take their religion seriously. They find a new label as soon as it is convenient.

This. After the cultural Christians are gone, we should be left with people who genuinely want to go to Church. Roughly 3 - 10% of the population. The Death of Christian Britain by Callum Brown is a good book on the subject.

I think the same, in the past there was a similar rate of "cultural christians", just it wasn't statistically recorded, or the line was more blurry. Now it's becoming more clear cut who's actively christians and who's passive. Just looking at church attendance, like other factors, gives a better idea of how things really stand.
Passive or cultural christians moving out doesn't make that much of a difference, as they were more like "nones" from the start, it's mostly a change of their label. Basically cultural christian was a nice way to say unreligious with some trace of previous belief.

("nothing particular" "agnostic" and "atheist" are the most common groups asked in recent statistical researches, the majority of all unreligious is neither agnostic nor atheist, the majority is just "uncertain")

Though, the aging population of the active christians has to be kept in mind, same with the tepid missionary sentiment in places which take for granted to be already christianized.
The west is due to get missionary attention again.


A second missionary wave is complicated to imagine how it would work.
If we think about the context of western missionaries, they had to their advantage the economic power of the western nations behind them. So i guess a second missionary wave in the west, let's say missionaries from Africa to Europe and America, would look more similar to the first missionaries, of the times of Paul.
The world is so much different though, from 2000 years ago, just the population size and density is on a different scale, the travel ability, and communication channels, it's hard to paint parallels.

[Xerkivia]

"Spiritual things are perceived with a different sense that is separate from our bodily senses: the eye of the heart."

- Elder Sergei of Vanves, 'Life and Teachings'

[Auze]

I read a sci-fi short story as a kid where an inquisitive plebe had discovered that 2+2=4. The authorities tried to shut him up with harsh punishment as this was counterproductive to civilization. But it was too late. As realization of this discovery of spread amongst the population, all of the technology started to fail. Mountains erupted into volcanoes, and the island of ancient Atlantis sank into the ocean never to be seen again.

Thankfully, God cannot make mistakes.

I mean, that's what everyone says... but have you seen the aye-aye?

God doesn’t make mistakes. On the other hand, I’m pretty sure the occasional practical joke is acceptable.

[Lower Nubia]

This. After the cultural Christians are gone, we should be left with people who genuinely want to go to Church. Roughly 3 - 10% of the population. The Death of Christian Britain by Callum Brown is a good book on the subject.

I think the same, in the past there was a similar rate of "cultural christians", just it wasn't statistically recorded, or the line was more blurry. Now it's becoming more clear cut who's actively christians and who's passive. Just looking at church attendance, like other factors, gives a better idea of how things really stand.
Passive or cultural christians moving out doesn't make that much of a difference, as they were more like "nones" from the start, it's mostly a change of their label. Basically cultural christian was a nice way to say unreligious with some trace of previous belief.

("nothing particular" "agnostic" and "atheist" are the most common groups asked in recent statistical researches, the majority of all unreligious is neither agnostic nor atheist, the majority is just "uncertain")

Though, the aging population of the active christians has to be kept in mind, same with the tepid missionary sentiment in places which take for granted to be already christianized.
The west is due to get missionary attention again.


A second missionary wave is complicated to imagine how it would work.
If we think about the context of western missionaries, they had to their advantage the economic power of the western nations behind them. So i guess a second missionary wave in the west, let's say missionaries from Africa to Europe and America, would look more similar to the first missionaries, of the times of Paul.
The world is so much different though, from 2000 years ago, just the population size and density is on a different scale, the travel ability, and communication channels, it's hard to paint parallels.

The age of missionaries, of any flavour, in the west is dead. A missionary is an exceedingly cost inefficient method of gaining Christians. The only way a missionary can get involved with people is with their consent. A consent that must be willing when Christians are at stands in town, or handing out flyers, or knocking on doors. A consent which is secular aligned in nature, not religiously inclined, as it was centuries ago for poorer people. It’s not effective.

Far more cost effective methods from the Church are promoting programs (social and communal) in the immediate community. Working in the community by hosting events in the Church building such as: fates, youth clubs, annual celebrations, etc, was where people consented to enter the Church building, where a Christian message is expected, and that charity from Christians to their community can be shown to them directly.

I don’t say this from isolation, as a Baptist I listened, communed, and visited with multiple missionary families, from the UK and US. These missionaries accrued very, very few conversions to their simple religion. It was when the Church was opened up to the community in that we became effective, but not when they knocked on doors, not when promoting stuff in the town centre.

I would be totally reluctant for African missionaries here, precisely because their method of communication is vastly (or tailored) different to the British (for example) audience. The exact problem American missionaries had over British missionaries, who were enthusiastic, pressing, jovial - qualities that make British people think twice. The British missionaries were more subtle, less pressing, less jovial and twice as effective. The best situation is when a local Church, aware of the struggles or qualities of their local community, can provide something tailored to that community.

I wouldn’t deny the success of individual cases, but looking for overseas help has already failed. The American evangelicals love sending missionaries here. The Church’s issues remain after their efforts.

[Isles of Metanoia]

Im at the airport right now. Wanting to go back to Iloilo. The Royal City on the Heart Shaped island of Panay. Muh hometown. I miss it there.

I was born in the heart of the seas, by God's Grace not by merit. I want to share this too. So you are all welcome to visit.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central ... _panay.png

Me at airport wearing my ROG free jacket and Team Philippines shirt. We recently won the Southeast Asian games held in former American Military Base turned Filipino city, Clark.

Pics

https://i.imgur.com/ozOlG9C.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/atjHCd6.jpg

People say I have gotten less fat! Yay! Exercise has its perks.

Im actually just sitting on the floor cause the airport is so full. Lol I like sitting on the floor, its like doing Yoga. Makes me feel like a monk again.


https://i.imgur.com/pSyPc2h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/TVvAvFE.jpg

Chillin with the Rev. Fathers who are like my brothers already.

Hopefully, the next time I ride an international flight would be when I join them as missionaries in Sierra Leone.

@Archregimancy and @Farnhamia

NSG where even clowns are Augustinians.

https://i.imgur.com/RiGupUC.jpg

[Isles of Metanoia]

Im actually just sitting on the floor cause the airport is so full. Lol I like sitting on the floor, its like doing Yoga. Makes me feel like a monk again.


https://i.imgur.com/pSyPc2h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/TVvAvFE.jpg

Chillin with the Rev. Fathers who are like my brothers already.

Hopefully, the next time I ride an international flight would be when I join them as missionaries in Sierra Leone.

@Archregimancy

NSG where even clowns are Augustinians.

https://i.imgur.com/RiGupUC.jpg

[Isles of Metanoia]

I am literally an Augustinian.

[Luminesa]

I am literally an Augustinian.

...Have you taken vows to become an Augustinian?

[Hanafuridake]

I am literally an Augustinian.

...Have you taken vows to become an Augustinian?

"You got a loicense for that mendicant order?" - Lumi

[Luminesa]

I think the same, in the past there was a similar rate of "cultural christians", just it wasn't statistically recorded, or the line was more blurry. Now it's becoming more clear cut who's actively christians and who's passive. Just looking at church attendance, like other factors, gives a better idea of how things really stand.
Passive or cultural christians moving out doesn't make that much of a difference, as they were more like "nones" from the start, it's mostly a change of their label. Basically cultural christian was a nice way to say unreligious with some trace of previous belief.

("nothing particular" "agnostic" and "atheist" are the most common groups asked in recent statistical researches, the majority of all unreligious is neither agnostic nor atheist, the majority is just "uncertain")

Though, the aging population of the active christians has to be kept in mind, same with the tepid missionary sentiment in places which take for granted to be already christianized.
The west is due to get missionary attention again.


A second missionary wave is complicated to imagine how it would work.
If we think about the context of western missionaries, they had to their advantage the economic power of the western nations behind them. So i guess a second missionary wave in the west, let's say missionaries from Africa to Europe and America, would look more similar to the first missionaries, of the times of Paul.
The world is so much different though, from 2000 years ago, just the population size and density is on a different scale, the travel ability, and communication channels, it's hard to paint parallels.

The age of missionaries, of any flavour, in the west is dead. A missionary is an exceedingly cost inefficient method of gaining Christians. The only way a missionary can get involved with people is with their consent. A consent that must be willing when Christians are at stands in town, or handing out flyers, or knocking on doors. A consent which is secular aligned in nature, not religiously inclined, as it was centuries ago for poorer people. It’s not effective.

Far more cost effective methods from the Church are promoting programs (social and communal) in the immediate community. Working in the community by hosting events in the Church building such as: fates, youth clubs, annual celebrations, etc, was where people consented to enter the Church building, where a Christian message is expected, and that charity from Christians to their community can be shown to them directly.

I don’t say this from isolation, as a Baptist I listened, communed, and visited with multiple missionary families, from the UK and US. These missionaries accrued very, very few conversions to their simple religion. It was when the Church was opened up to the community in that we became effective, but not when they knocked on doors, not when promoting stuff in the town centre.

I would be totally reluctant for African missionaries here, precisely because their method of communication is vastly (or tailored) different to the British (for example) audience. The exact problem American missionaries had over British missionaries, who were enthusiastic, pressing, jovial - qualities that make British people think twice. The British missionaries were more subtle, less pressing, less jovial and twice as effective. The best situation is when a local Church, aware of the struggles or qualities of their local community, can provide something tailored to that community.

I wouldn’t deny the success of individual cases, but looking for overseas help has already failed. The American evangelicals love sending missionaries here. The Church’s issues remain after their efforts.

And the Church should be more visible in communities as well. We’ve been pushed so hard to be private that people don’t want to even have community events with churches anymore.

[Lower Nubia]

The age of missionaries, of any flavour, in the west is dead. A missionary is an exceedingly cost inefficient method of gaining Christians. The only way a missionary can get involved with people is with their consent. A consent that must be willing when Christians are at stands in town, or handing out flyers, or knocking on doors. A consent which is secular aligned in nature, not religiously inclined, as it was centuries ago for poorer people. It’s not effective.

Far more cost effective methods from the Church are promoting programs (social and communal) in the immediate community. Working in the community by hosting events in the Church building such as: fates, youth clubs, annual celebrations, etc, was where people consented to enter the Church building, where a Christian message is expected, and that charity from Christians to their community can be shown to them directly.

I don’t say this from isolation, as a Baptist I listened, communed, and visited with multiple missionary families, from the UK and US. These missionaries accrued very, very few conversions to their simple religion. It was when the Church was opened up to the community in that we became effective, but not when they knocked on doors, not when promoting stuff in the town centre.

I would be totally reluctant for African missionaries here, precisely because their method of communication is vastly (or tailored) different to the British (for example) audience. The exact problem American missionaries had over British missionaries, who were enthusiastic, pressing, jovial - qualities that make British people think twice. The British missionaries were more subtle, less pressing, less jovial and twice as effective. The best situation is when a local Church, aware of the struggles or qualities of their local community, can provide something tailored to that community.

I wouldn’t deny the success of individual cases, but looking for overseas help has already failed. The American evangelicals love sending missionaries here. The Church’s issues remain after their efforts.

And the Church should be more visible in communities as well. We’ve been pushed so hard to be private that people don’t want to even have community events with churches anymore.

This is it too. A church not visible in that community dies. A church which won’t participate in the community because of ecumenism with other Christian Church’s in the city, town, or village, stagnates and dies.

For certain Christians that isolation from the community is an issue of purity for their Christian faith, working with other Christian denominations is akin to not upholding Christian truths. When really it’s an issue of pride, you can help in a community with other Christians and not concede on doctrine.

[Luminesa]

And the Church should be more visible in communities as well. We’ve been pushed so hard to be private that people don’t want to even have community events with churches anymore.

This is it too. A church not visible in that community dies. A church which won’t participate in the community because of ecumenism with other Christian Church’s in the city, town, or village, stagnates and dies.

For certain Christians that isolation from the community is an issue of purity for their Christian faith, working with other Christian denominations is akin to not upholding Christian truths. When really it’s an issue of pride, you can help in a community with other Christians and not concede on doctrine.

What I love about my little church is that it does things with the community, which is not a big population, but every little bit counts. Non-Catholics even come to some of the events, like our Christmas festival. And it was the first group to bring aid to my little town after it flooded in 2016. If every church was like that, it would be great. Even our pro-life groups are getting bigger. We actually got members of the Knights of Columbus and their wives to come to pray with us this year during 40 Days for Life.

[Isles of Metanoia]

Here's a dank meme!

[Benuty]

Few people who identify as Christians take their religion seriously. They find a new label as soon as it is convenient.

This. After the cultural Christians are gone, we should be left with people who genuinely want to go to Church. Roughly 3 - 10% of the population. The Death of Christian Britain by Callum Brown is a good book on the subject.

I do wonder what things will look like after such an event? I do wonder if such purging is good in the long run though...

[Benuty]

On the note of being culturally religious, while the west declines into obscurity. I will continue to watch the development of the ever-expanding vanguard of Christianity in Africa, and Asia especially China with great interest. I also wonder, is the trend of radical Protestantism in Brazil, and other countries of south America the future?

[Lower Nubia]

This. After the cultural Christians are gone, we should be left with people who genuinely want to go to Church. Roughly 3 - 10% of the population. The Death of Christian Britain by Callum Brown is a good book on the subject.

I do wonder what things will look like after such an event? I do wonder if such purging is good in the long run though...

It is good. Very good. The actions of cultural Christians (who care no more about sin than atheists) dilute the pool of actions of genuine Christians. So the actions of cultural Christians, because of the “No True Scotsman” fallacy, are added to the pile as an example of Christians to the world. Our politicians are a prime example of this equivocation.

The movement to this 3-10% looks like modern Britain in terms of Church funding and Church participation. The main issue is when the vast majority of people are non-Church goers. The Church is more susceptible, in these circumstances, to pressure from the non-Christian public, because Churches concede to popular policy in the hopes of remaining intellectually relevant.

However, is that susceptibility a quality of cultural Christians in ministry? Or a genuine change in mind amongst most-Christians (genuine and not) in a post Christian society where family, loved ones, and friends are more likely to be outside of the Church? Or both.

[Europa Undivided]

On the note of being culturally religious, while the west declines into obscurity. I will continue to watch the development of the ever-expanding vanguard of Christianity in Africa, and Asia especially China with great interest. I also wonder, is the trend of radical Protestantism in Brazil, and other countries of south America the future?

Well, bad prosperity gospel theology is better than None att all. We have to start somewhere after all.

[New Visayan Islands]

On the note of being culturally religious, while the west declines into obscurity. I will continue to watch the development of the ever-expanding vanguard of Christianity in Africa, and Asia especially China with great interest. I also wonder, is the trend of radical Protestantism in Brazil, and other countries of south America the future?

Well, bad prosperity gospel theology is better than None att all. We have to start somewhere after all.

And the situation in China may or may not a bit hairy, see?

(I know, lame heresy pun, just roll with it.)

Here's a dank meme!

(Image)

I think God, in His Infinite Wisdom, would play the wiseguy and answer "Yes" to both questions.