The Christian Discussion Thread X: Originally there were 15

[Luminesa]

The term 'mestizo' in its strictest interpretation means a person of Spanish and Native American descent.

Patently false ilI learned Spanish, Mestizo just means mixed.

A person of mixed racial or ethnic ancestry, especially, in Latin America, of mixed American Indian and European descent or, in the Philippines, of mixed native and foreign descent.

I guess that in the Philippines it does have a different meaning.

[Salus Maior]

The term 'mestizo' in its strictest interpretation means a person of Spanish and Native American descent.

Patently false ilI learned Spanish, Mestizo just means mixed.

Here in the Americas, the name represents a specific ethnic group which is what Lumi said.

[Lower Nubia]

Branch size graphs are also a bit rare, most graphs are just timelines or listings. This is a branch size graph, which while still missing other facets (and being messy and somehow imprecise) it gives a view which most other graphs overlook.

([url=https://i.imgur.com/n6ghPqxl.png]Image)[/url]

That's a point-blank terrible graph from the Orthodox perspective since it implies that all of the autocephalous churches are separate Orthodox denominations akin to different Protestant denominations. Instead they're self-governing parts of the same church. The way the Oriental Orthodox churches and Eastern-Rite Catholics are listed offers the same problem. The way the latter are treated is downright weird, and I imagine a few Catholics objecting to listing them separately from the main body of the Catholic Church.

This is probably best to be fair. Nice, with some over simplifications for denomination origins.

Edit: accidentally put the wrong chart. The link has the right one now.

[Salus Maior]

Branch size graphs are also a bit rare, most graphs are just timelines or listings. This is a branch size graph, which while still missing other facets (and being messy and somehow imprecise) it gives a view which most other graphs overlook.

([url=https://i.imgur.com/n6ghPqxl.png]Image)[/url]

That's a point-blank terrible graph from the Orthodox perspective since it implies that all of the autocephalous churches are separate Orthodox denominations akin to different Protestant denominations. Instead they're self-governing parts of the same church. The way the Oriental Orthodox churches and Eastern-Rite Catholics are listed offers the same problem. The way the latter are treated is downright weird, and I imagine a few Catholics objecting to listing them separately from the main body of the Catholic Church.

Not to mention that Evangelical is ill-defined, and can fit into pretty much all the denominations in the "Reformationist" branch.

It's completely in the wrong place.

[Minachia]

Correct me if I just misunderstand the question, but I'm not sure what you mean. Do you think that I deny that the saints in heaven can pray for us? Because I don't.

That they intercede in prayer for us, as they have interceded in their earthly lives, even though God was present then also. The Saints prayer for us, but why can they not intercede for us?

Is there a difference?

We can't ever be 100% certain that someone is righteous because that's information known only to God. We just have to deduce who is righteous according to their words and works.

So how can you seek out a righteous person with any certainty, surely James' exhortation here is a recipe for prayer disaster, in that outward righteousness, is not a sign of inward righteousness, in seeking out Holy people.

How is it a "recipe for prayer disaster?"

[Lower Nubia]

That they intercede in prayer for us, as they have interceded in their earthly lives, even though God was present then also. The Saints prayer for us, but why can they not intercede for us?

Is there a difference?

As in accept prayer?

So how can you seek out a righteous person with any certainty, surely James' exhortation here is a recipe for prayer disaster, in that outward righteousness, is not a sign of inward righteousness, in seeking out Holy people.

How is it a "recipe for prayer disaster?"

If your group is putting emphasis on a "righteous" man for fervent prayer, and he is not righteous, your wasting your time.

How do you find a righteous man?

[Minachia]

Is there a difference?

As in accept prayer?

That's not what intercession is. Intercession is just praying on someone's behalf, which is similar (if not the same) as praying for someone

How is it a "recipe for prayer disaster?"

If your group is putting emphasis on a "righteous" man for fervent prayer, and he is not righteous, your wasting your time.

How do you find a righteous man?

I think that you'd be wasting your time if you spent all your time looking for righteous men and not praying yourself and with all other members of the Church, as James commands.

[Lower Nubia]

As in accept prayer?
That's not what intercession is. Intercession is just praying on someone's behalf, which is similar (if not the same) as praying for someone


If your group is putting emphasis on a "righteous" man for fervent prayer, and he is not righteous, your wasting your time.

How do you find a righteous man?

I think that you'd be wasting your time if you spent all your time looking for righteous men and not praying yourself and with all other members of the Church, as James commands.

Except James doesn't just command that, does he.

[New Thrinia]

Just curious, but is it normal that NOBODY sings in church but the choir?

[The Archregimancy]

Just curious, but is it normal that NOBODY sings in church but the choir?

In an Orthodox Church it would be normal; well, nobody except the choir and the priest(s). Almost the entire liturgy is sung.

[New Thrinia]

Just curious, but is it normal that NOBODY sings in church but the choir?

In an Orthodox Church it would be normal; well, nobody except the choir and the priest(s). Almost the entire liturgy is sung.

Well I am Roman Catholic, but ok, i did not know that.

[Arachkya]

In an Orthodox Church it would be normal; well, nobody except the choir and the priest(s). Almost the entire liturgy is sung.

Well I am Roman Catholic, but ok, i did not know that.

I would just get rid of the singing.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Well I am Roman Catholic, but ok, i did not know that.

I would just get rid of the singing.

Why on Earth would you do that?

[Arachkya]

I would just get rid of the singing.

Why on Earth would you do that?

To make it more about prayer, and less about happy folk songs, its a ritual, not a musical.

Yes I am biased since I hate singing.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Why on Earth would you do that?

To make it more about prayer, and less about happy folk songs, its a ritual, not a musical.

Yes I am biased since I hate singing.

You've clearly never been to an Orthodox service.

This is the kind of stuff we sing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_OLom4lvdA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUNgWsj0UkI

[Arachkya]

To make it more about prayer, and less about happy folk songs, its a ritual, not a musical.

Yes I am biased since I hate singing.

You've clearly never been to an Orthodox service.

This is the kind of stuff we sing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_OLom4lvdA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUNgWsj0UkI

Sorry but its not doing it for me....

[United Muscovite Nations]

You've clearly never been to an Orthodox service.

This is the kind of stuff we sing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_OLom4lvdA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUNgWsj0UkI

Sorry but its not doing it for me....

My point is, it's not "happy folk songs", it's a ritualistic form of singing traditional prayers that dates back thousands of years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fSV9T-rK-E
Here's video of an Orthodox service in Moscow to give an idea.

[Arachkya]

Sorry but its not doing it for me....

My point is, it's not "happy folk songs", it's a ritualistic form of singing traditional prayers that dates back thousands of years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fSV9T-rK-E
Here's video of an Orthodox service in Moscow to give an idea.

Ok, not bad.

Better then their ultraconservative teachings.

PS: And I HATE my own singing voice.

[United Muscovite Nations]

My point is, it's not "happy folk songs", it's a ritualistic form of singing traditional prayers that dates back thousands of years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fSV9T-rK-E
Here's video of an Orthodox service in Moscow to give an idea.

Ok, not bad.

Better then their ultraconservative teachings.

PS: And I HATE my own singing voice.

Which teachings do you think are "ultraconservative"?

[Arachkya]

Ok, not bad.

Better then their ultraconservative teachings.

PS: And I HATE my own singing voice.

Which teachings do you think are "ultraconservative"?

Their harsh anti gay stance.

[Luminesa]

Well I am Roman Catholic, but ok, i did not know that.

I would just get rid of the singing.

The music is a key part of the liturgy. It...really can’t be removed from the liturgy of the Mass.

[Luminesa]

Which teachings do you think are "ultraconservative"?

Their harsh anti gay stance.

The Orthodox are not actually as “strict” as some other denominations, in this regard, but UMN can explain this better than me.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Which teachings do you think are "ultraconservative"?

Their harsh anti gay stance.

While I'm personally affirming, I wouldn't say that the stance of the Church overall is ultraconservative. Reading official guidelines and knowing unofficial practices from anecdotes reveals a much more pastoral outlook than public statements might suggest.

[Arachkya]

Their harsh anti gay stance.

While I'm personally affirming, I wouldn't say that the stance of the Church overall is ultraconservative. Reading official guidelines and knowing unofficial practices from anecdotes reveals a much more pastoral outlook than public statements might suggest.

Yet they (the Russian Orthodox Church) did not object to the whole ''gay propaganda law'', I think they even support it.....

[United Muscovite Nations]

While I'm personally affirming, I wouldn't say that the stance of the Church overall is ultraconservative. Reading official guidelines and knowing unofficial practices from anecdotes reveals a much more pastoral outlook than public statements might suggest.

Yet they (the Russian Orthodox Church) did not object to the whole ''gay propaganda law'', I think they even support it.....

The gay propaganda law is less about the actual LGBT rights movement than it is about keeping American NGO's out of Russia. Also, part of the reason for Russia's conservative stance on LGBT issues is that there is a lot of prejudice in society, and the government has fears that a social movement could lead to social conflict. Moreover, in certain areas, Russian laws are more liberal than in some Western countries such as the United States.