The Christian Discussion Thread X: Originally there were 15

[The Isles of the Grey]

The Bible /s

The Bonald thing is not a book but at least as good and worth reading in its entirety. Incredibly insightful. https://bonald.files.wordpress.com/2009 ... igion1.pdf
Tolkien's Mythopoeia (A poem, not a book, but possibly the best poem ever written. Reportedly it was the last straw that converted his friend CS Lewis to Christianity. Though it is published in Tree and Leaf, an excellent Tolkien book. Tree and Leaf is absolutely worth getting.)
- The poem itself: http://home.agh.edu.pl/~evermind/jrrtol ... opoeia.htm
- My fav commentary on Mythopoeia http://polyoinos.net/tolk_stuff/mythopiea_engl..html (there are plenty of others too with a Google search for 'mythopoeia poem')
Mere Christianity by CS Lewis
Orthodoxy by GK Chesterton
The Benedict Option (probably most important religious work of the 21st century) by Rod Dreher
All of these are amazing. I'll try to think of more as well. These are just the starters.
Also I highly recommend Moldbug; he will blow your mind. Start with the Gentle Introduction (click the three horizontal bars to get the sidebar): https://www.unqualified-reservations.org/

This is great, thank you!

[Isles of Metanoia]

K Im back. I present to you our new "Alter Christi".


https://i.imgur.com/WRdJB32.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/MpCsxRC.jpg

[Lost Memories]

That gave me the inspiration to try to draw a picture of the christian branches.

Tadaa



I took an artistic turn on it, not just a timeline of schisms. But now i wonder where would the other minor branches stand.
Btw was i too harsh with the protestants? They want to get back to the roots, at least in the origins.

You left out the non-Chalcedonian Oriental Orthodox churches (the Copts, Armenians, Ethiopians, etc.) and the Assyrian Church of the East, both of which split from the Imperial Church (the precursor of both Orthodoxy and Catholicism) in the 5th century.

And I don't mind the Catholic branch being physically larger, but I do raise an eyebrow at it being taller.

Noted.

For the Assyrian and Oriental churches i initially had them included, but i had some issues with depicting one of their half being in communion with the catholic church.
On the figurative side, it's a bit messy having long and thin branches joining in or closing in at the top, while avoiding crossing branches. On the symbolic side instead, i was not very sure of how much the eastern churches are actually involved with the communion, i mean there are both Assyrian orthodox and Assyrian catholic churches and i've no idea if both are noticeable the same way, thus if both need representing the same way, also given this was a rather simplicistic drawing and it could have become complicated.
Given those doubts i've abstained from depicting them until i've a better understanding of them. But i would be happy to redraw it better with also them.

[Lost Memories]

K Im back. I present to you our new "Alter Christi".


https://i.imgur.com/WRdJB32.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/MpCsxRC.jpg

Congratulation.

Who were the others in the second picture? All newly ordained?

[Australian rePublic]

My bros in the Seminary are going to be ordained to the Priesthood Tomorrow! Wohooo. I'll post pics here, they'll be the future Bishops of the Philippines and in our African Missionary territories.

(Image)

Also, look at my cousin, the nephew of our former Vice Governor do some power kicks.

https://www.facebook.com/10001016218593 ... 268185003/

Me and him.


https://imgur.com/dLOEJ9N

Awsome! I wish 'em well!

[Isles of Metanoia]

K Im back. I present to you our new "Alter Christi".


https://i.imgur.com/WRdJB32.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/MpCsxRC.jpg

Congratulation.

Who were the others in the second picture? All new ordianed?

They were my other classmates. 2 Spanish-Filipino Mestizos, 1 Japanese-Filipino Mestizo and 2 African immigrants from Nigeria.

[Isles of Metanoia]

My bros in the Seminary are going to be ordained to the Priesthood Tomorrow! Wohooo. I'll post pics here, they'll be the future Bishops of the Philippines and in our African Missionary territories.

(Image)

Also, look at my cousin, the nephew of our former Vice Governor do some power kicks.

https://www.facebook.com/10001016218593 ... 268185003/

Me and him.


https://imgur.com/dLOEJ9N

Awsome! I wish 'em well!

The dude to the left most has a Greek first name like you his' is Andrei fron Andreas, Greek for Manly and is an Apostle of Christ.

Spent several years in Afica hope Ill join them.

[New Visayan Islands]

Congratulation.

Who were the others in the second picture? All new ordianed?

They were my other classmates. 2 Spanish-Filipino Mestizos, 1 Japanese-Filipino Mestizo and 2 African immigrants from Nigeria.

I counted 6 in the picture. I assume you're one of them?

[Isles of Metanoia]

They were my other classmates. 2 Spanish-Filipino Mestizos, 1 Japanese-Filipino Mestizo and 2 African immigrants from Nigeria.

I counted 6 in the picture. I assume you're one of them?

No, I went to the Seminary with them and accompanied them but only achieved Rev. Bro. Status and then quit. They are Rev. Frs. Now. Im not at the pic since I took the picture.

[Arachkya]

K Im back. I present to you our new "Alter Christi".


https://i.imgur.com/WRdJB32.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/MpCsxRC.jpg

More clerics for our Holy Roman Church.

Good.

[The Archregimancy]

For the Assyrian and Oriental churches i initially had them included, but i had some issues with depicting one of their half being in communion with the catholic church.

That would have been unnecessary. You didn't draw in Eastern Rite Catholics from the Orthodox tradition, so you wouldn't have needed to draw in, for example, the analogous Coptic Catholics or Assyrian Catholics.


The basic point is that there are four churches, albeit one of them much-reduced, that were formed directly out of Constantine's imperial church, and have a strong claim to apostolic succession (even if they all consider each other to be schismatics to varying degrees). Those are (in no particular order) the Orthodox Church, the Catholic Church, the non-Chalcedonian Oriental Orthodox Church, and the Assyrian Church of the East. The latter two deserve recognition alongside the first two.

[Lost Memories]

For the Assyrian and Oriental churches i initially had them included, but i had some issues with depicting one of their half being in communion with the catholic church.

That would have been unnecessary. You didn't draw in Eastern Rite Catholics from the Orthodox tradition, so you wouldn't have needed to draw in, for example, the analogous Coptic Catholics or Assyrian Catholics.


The basic point is that there are four churches, albeit one of them much-reduced, that were formed directly out of Constantine's imperial church, and have a strong claim to apostolic succession (even if they all consider each other to be schismatics to varying degrees). Those are (in no particular order) the Orthodox Church, the Catholic Church, the non-Chalcedonian Oriental Orthodox Church, and the Assyrian Church of the East. The latter two deserve recognition alongside the first two.

I see, thanks for the correction.


Most pure data graphs hold the fault of highlighting single facets of the branches while ignoring or being misleading with other sides.
Some graph highlight the timeline of splits while ignoring if there was continuity or not, most evident with the depicting of the protestant reformation and following developments where with different degrees there was a reset in doctrine and loss of apostolic succession.
Other graphs highlight the number of subdivisions while ignoring the size of every subdivision, which gives a misleading perception of the relevancy of a group among all christians. And then there are graphs which show the differing group sizes but have troubles to represent the closeness between each group.

A good representation should try to include all facets of the matter: time, continuity, specificity, prevalency, closeness, unity. Above all, simplicity, cause a picture should be immediate. If veracity wasn't so divisive by nature it would be nice to see that too. Managing all that in a single image is quite a feat, so it's understandable most graphs focus on only few of those aspects. While it would still be nice to eventually see a complete yet simple depiction.

Branch size graphs are also a bit rare, most graphs are just timelines or listings. This is a branch size graph, which while still missing other facets (and being messy and somehow imprecise) it gives a view which most other graphs overlook.

[The Archregimancy]

Branch size graphs are also a bit rare, most graphs are just timelines or listings. This is a branch size graph, which while still missing other facets (and being messy and somehow imprecise) it gives a view which most other graphs overlook.

([url=https://i.imgur.com/n6ghPqxl.png]Image)[/url]

That's a point-blank terrible graph from the Orthodox perspective since it implies that all of the autocephalous churches are separate Orthodox denominations akin to different Protestant denominations. Instead they're self-governing parts of the same church. The way the Oriental Orthodox churches and Eastern-Rite Catholics are listed offers the same problem. The way the latter are treated is downright weird, and I imagine a few Catholics objecting to listing them separately from the main body of the Catholic Church.

[Gim]

They were my other classmates. 2 Spanish-Filipino Mestizos, 1 Japanese-Filipino Mestizo and 2 African immigrants from Nigeria.

I counted 6 in the picture. I assume you're one of them?

There are Christians in Japan?

[Samudera Darussalam]

I counted 6 in the picture. I assume you're one of them?

There are Christians in Japan?

Yes, there are quite a few but not that visible, I guess.

[Gim]

There are Christians in Japan?

Yes, there are quite a few but not that visible, I guess.

I thought most of them were Shinzos.

[Samudera Darussalam]

Yes, there are quite a few but not that visible, I guess.

I thought most of them were Shinzos.

A majority of Japanese, if wikipedia is to be believed, do practice Shinto and Buddhism or a mix of both, but small religious minorities also exist within the Home Islands.

[Isles of Metanoia]

I counted 6 in the picture. I assume you're one of them?

There are Christians in Japan?

Uhmm a Mestizo is someone who is mixed. When I say Japanese-Filipino Mestizo it means someone who is both Japanese and Filipino. He is my Foster Borther BTW Tomokatsu Yamaguchi

[Sundiata]

It's nice to remember that a person is a person no matter how small.

[Luminesa]

There are Christians in Japan?

Yes, there are quite a few but not that visible, I guess.

There's about a million Christians in Japan, but a long time ago the population used to be bigger.

[Luminesa]

There are Christians in Japan?

Uhmm a Mestizo is someone who is mixed. When I say Japanese-Filipino Mestizo it means someone who is both Japanese and Filipino. He is my Foster Borther BTW Tomokatsu Yamaguchi

The term 'mestizo' in its strictest interpretation means a person of Spanish and Native American descent.

[Luminesa]

In a different vein, can anyone recommend any good books on theology?

Anything specific you would like to know about theology? It might help narrow the list of interests.

[Lower Nubia]

So why do you not translate this intercession, as allowable, for the saints in heaven?

Correct me if I just misunderstand the question, but I'm not sure what you mean. Do you think that I deny that the saints in heaven can pray for us? Because I don't.

That they intercede in prayer for us, as they have interceded in their earthly lives, even though God was present then also. The Saints prayer for us, but why can they not intercede for us?

James commands more than just for all to pray, but to seek out the righteous for prayer when in need. How do you seek out the righteousness of others, for prayer, in Lutheranism with any confidence?
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We can't ever be 100% certain that someone is righteous because that's information known only to God. We just have to deduce who is righteous according to their words and works.

So how can you seek out a righteous person with any certainty, surely James' exhortation here is a recipe for prayer disaster, in that outward righteousness, is not a sign of inward righteousness, in seeking out Holy people.

[Luminesa]

Correct me if I just misunderstand the question, but I'm not sure what you mean. Do you think that I deny that the saints in heaven can pray for us? Because I don't.

That they intercede in prayer for us, as they have interceded in their earthly lives, even though God was present then also. The Saints prayer for us, but why can they not intercede for us?

We can't ever be 100% certain that someone is righteous because that's information known only to God. We just have to deduce who is righteous according to their words and works.

So how can you seek out a righteous person with any certainty, surely James' exhortation here is a recipe for prayer disaster, in that outward righteousness, is not a sign of inward righteousness, in seeking out Holy people.

Because Marcus Williams and Eli Apple don't know how to intercept easy passes.

[Isles of Metanoia]

Uhmm a Mestizo is someone who is mixed. When I say Japanese-Filipino Mestizo it means someone who is both Japanese and Filipino. He is my Foster Borther BTW Tomokatsu Yamaguchi

The term 'mestizo' in its strictest interpretation means a person of Spanish and Native American descent.

Patently false ilI learned Spanish, Mestizo just means mixed.