The Christian Discussion Thread X: Originally there were 15

[Chrysostomos]

Throwing my understanding as former buddhist monk and current Orthodox Catholic out there;

Buddhism purports to be atheistic, but;
Avalokitesvara, Manjusri and an assortment of "metaphysical bodhisattvas" are the equivalent of non canon, totally fictional saints or deities
Tibetans, in a liturgy to Shakyamuni Buddha proclaim that he came from a pure land, incarnated, performed miracles, etc.
The Vajrayana (in all of asia) believe these miraculous things
Nearly all buddhism accepts the existence of bodhisattvas or at least arhats, who perform miraculous feats (i.e. seeing the dead, communing with earthen spirits, etc)

Its so far from atheist
It could just be honest.
RE the "do as I say or burn in hell" comment I briefly saw;
We don't know where exactly hell is, or if the lake of fire is separate from hell.
The lake was made to lock demons away. Not disobedient people.
It's inconclusive, at least in Orthodoxy, if hell is potentially still the presence of god, but rather than joy, because you are (spiritually separate from god) you feel unending pain.
idk

[Sundiata]

I feel like many young people don't feel a sense of responsibility these days.

[Arachkya]

I feel like many young people don't feel a sense of responsibility these days.

Or worse, that its all relative and there is no truth.

That it is all a point of view.

[Philjia]

I feel like many young people don't feel a sense of responsibility these days.

A lot of old people don't feel any responsibility either. Particularly some old gentlemen resident in Rome.

[Chrysostomos]

I feel like many young people don't feel a sense of responsibility these days.

A lot of old people don't feel any responsibility either. Particularly some old gentlemen resident in Rome.

Show me a Roman Pontiff who did, and I'll convert from the East

[Sundiata]

A lot of old people don't feel any responsibility either. Particularly some old gentlemen resident in Rome.

Show me a Roman Pontiff who did, and I'll convert from the East

Saint John Paul II.

[Minachia]

Throwing my understanding as former buddhist monk and current Orthodox Catholic out there;

Buddhism purports to be atheistic, but;
Avalokitesvara, Manjusri and an assortment of "metaphysical bodhisattvas" are the equivalent of non canon, totally fictional saints or deities
Tibetans, in a liturgy to Shakyamuni Buddha proclaim that he came from a pure land, incarnated, performed miracles, etc.
The Vajrayana (in all of asia) believe these miraculous things
Nearly all buddhism accepts the existence of bodhisattvas or at least arhats, who perform miraculous feats (i.e. seeing the dead, communing with earthen spirits, etc)

Its so far from atheist
It could just be honest.

I think you misunderstand the difference between the terms "Irreligious" and "Atheist."
Buddhism is definitely a religion, anyone who says that "It's just a philosophy" isn't being honest.
But Buddhism can be atheist (i.e, there are no gods) depending on the variety.
The presence of miracles on the part of Buddha and the bodhisattvas doesn't necessitate that they are gods or that there is a god behind their work.
But this is all irrelevant since this is the Christian discussion thread (feel free to yell at me, Farn).

RE the "do as I say or burn in hell" comment I briefly saw;
We don't know where exactly hell is, or if the lake of fire is separate from hell.
The lake was made to lock demons away. Not disobedient people.
It's inconclusive, at least in Orthodoxy, if hell is potentially still the presence of god, but rather than joy, because you are (spiritually separate from god) you feel unending pain.
idk

As I understand it, the punishment for sin is plainly death, that is, complete and total separation from God.
It's not really a place as it is a state.

[Minachia]

I feel like many young people don't feel a sense of responsibility these days.

Define "sense of responsibility."

[Sundiata]

I feel like many young people don't feel a sense of responsibility these days.

Define "sense of responsibility."

Well, we've got to receive the seven sacraments for one.

Marriage is a hot topic these days.

[Tarsonis]

Define "sense of responsibility."

Well, we've got to receive the seven sacraments for one.

Marriage is a hot topic these days.

As it stands you can’t receive all seven.

[Sundiata]

Well, we've got to receive the seven sacraments for one.

Marriage is a hot topic these days.

As it stands you can’t receive all seven.

You can if you become a deacon after marriage. My Catholic cheat code, if you will.

[Hanafuridake]

But Buddhism can be atheist (i.e, there are no gods) depending on the variety.
The presence of miracles on the part of Buddha and the bodhisattvas doesn't necessitate that they are gods or that there is a god behind their work.
But this is all irrelevant since this is the Christian discussion thread (feel free to yell at me, Farn).

A religion who's founder is referred to as देवातिदेव (Devātideva - The God Above Gods) cannot be atheistic by definition. The idea that Buddhism (or for that matter, other Asian religions) are irreligious or even atheistic is the product of Jesuit missionaries misunderstanding and those misunderstandings being spread to Enlightenment Europe where they were seen as virtues. Buddhism and Christianity cannot merge because these two religions make vastly different claims about reality which are irreconcilable.

[Geneviev]

So, NSG,

After reading St. Augustine's Confessions again, I was struck with a sudden call from the Spirit.

I realized how tired I am. I've been tired of pretending I can hold my personal philosophy together without an ordering principle. I'm also tired of denying the circumstances in my life as being either happenstance or the result of my own good works. I've realized the arrogance with which my personal philosophy was achieved, and simultaneously, the smallness of my mind in constructing it. In the moment, it is easy to be a naysayer, and it is hard to believe something. However, in the long-run, the multiple venoms the flesh is poisoned with creep in, and destroy the sanity and orderliness of the soul. I prayed to Christ, before I left the faith, that he would have me return if he really wanted me in his kingdom. I post this here tonight to say that it does happen. I have returned.

This is not to say that I have learned no lessons from my stint in existential dread: the terror that is the depraved human mind is too great for any person to bear in its barest form. It is by God's mercy that he suspends us from grasping fully the inherent dread that is existence in a sinful world. In a sense, I understand the need for salvation now. The wickedness that is present in reliance on the compass of the inner self is unfathomable, and to get to the bottom of it, one has to sell their soul. It was not worth it to continue to do so.

Some may say, and perhaps rightly, that I was merely too weak to any longer bear the reality that is, and that I instead hold to reality as I want it to be. The truth is that the nature of the reality of the earthly kingdom is so deeply complex and so deeply broken in its current form that we cannot see it as it truly is, ever. We, therefore, all cling to the strands of sanity that are perception, and form our metaphysics based on them. However, human thought is not so deep that it does not have common motifs--rather, we all cope in similar ways. Some might call this the result of evolution, and I would agree that that is true--but I think it is necessary for a species so elevated in matters of certain kinds of intelligence to have certain kinds of philosophical beliefs. At their basest form, many of the world's philosophers converge on many truths--life in this world is fundamentally pain, suffering has no reason, and yet, it is possible to achieve some approximation of a peaceful life. I think this is evidence that consciousness is given mercy in this sinful world, for it is not inconceivable that there might be a much more wicked world where beings were constantly in existential torment, but were unable to escape, either by ending their own life or by means of coping. It is because of the sanctity of life and the pain that sin induces that God has given us philosophy.

Perhaps that hasn't answered the questions of those who are still skeptical, but to them I would respond: what would you have me do? Would you have me be miserable and deny the longing within every inch of my being, even if it may be a delusion, in order to be potentially right? Forget Pascal's Wager--suppose I was right as an atheist? I would still be miserable in my one and only life on this planet. There is more to life than the pleasures of the intellect and of the flesh. There is also faith, hope, and love. If I am a fool, let me be. I will be, if only to once again be the joyful person, the kind person, the generous person. If that means I am wrong, then I will be, for even if I have been right, I have still been but a resounding gong in all of my self-pompousness as an atheist.

To those I have slighted with my arrogance: I cannot promise I will never make a slight out of anger or fear ever again, but I can declare that there is something in me that seeks to change the wicked mockery present in every ounce of my sinful flesh and will. My fear until now has been to die, and I did not know that by fearing death, I was already dead. I am now alive, and I will live as if I am alive. The person that is drowning clings to whatever and whoever they can to save themselves, even at the cost of life. To be more succinct, the people in this thread, the Islamic Discussion Thread, and also the Trans Discussion Thread deserve more than an apology for my conduct. I cannot give them what they need as a result of my actions (if I could, I would). I can only strive to be more loving, and apologize.

I have often said I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong, and have retracted statements when they are incorrect. Even at my most wretched, I refused to let my pride get in the way of that, out of principle. So here again I retract all of my statements of atheism and existentialism, and also my hurtful statements against Muslims. This world may be doomed, and so be it, but a new world comes in its place. This is not to say I will give up my activism for what I know is right--to the contrary, all the more, I will act as a citizen of the City of God while still a pilgrim in the dominion of the ancient foe, who has until now deceived me. I will stand up now not because I know it will be fully realized in this life, but because on the day of the resurrection, the efforts of the Lord will be realized as his kingdoms unite forever. On that day, I will celebrate with the masses of the saved about the treasure we have stored up, not because of our will to, but because of God's power through us.

This post has gone on almost long enough. I'll need to think about what I want to do as a result of this, but one thing's for certain: having my nation name be a French existentialist atheist won't work for me anymore. I'm open to suggestions for my new nation name. I'm also not sure which church I want to be a part of, so if you're looking to convert someone to your flavor, hit me up.

Blessings
-JPS

Your new nation name should be a German theologian. Since German is the opposite of French. Johannes Fischer?

Also, it would be almost kind of funny if you were to join my church, but that's not going to work anyway.

[The New California Republic]

-snip-

Well hopefully you'll come back to philosophy again. You'll always be welcome.

[Tarsonis]

-snip-

Well hopefully you'll come back to philosophy again. You'll always be welcome.

Philosophy and Religion are not mutually exclusive

[The New California Republic]

Well hopefully you'll come back to philosophy again. You'll always be welcome.

Philosophy and Religion are not mutually exclusive

Not always.

[Tarsonis]

Philosophy and Religion are not mutually exclusive

Not always.

Not even usually

[Salus Maior]

Well, we've got to receive the seven sacraments for one.

Marriage is a hot topic these days.

As it stands you can’t receive all seven.

Well, I think you could, but it would require a lot of unusual things happening.

[The New California Republic]

Not always.

Not even usually

It can depend on whether one's religion renders it exclusive really, as is the case with our friend formally known as Jean-Paul Sartre...

[Philjia]

Not even usually

It can depend on whether one's religion renders it exclusive really, as is the case with our friend formally known as Jean-Paul Sartre...

Philosophy is essentially the expansion of human knowledge through questioning, critical discussion, rational argument, and systematic presentation, which can be done through the framework of a religion (particularly metaphysics and it's comedy sidekick theology). There are, of course, some religious authorities who'd rather people did not engage in philosophy because they might get ideas.

[The New California Republic]

It can depend on whether one's religion renders it exclusive really, as is the case with our friend formally known as Jean-Paul Sartre...

Philosophy is essentially the expansion of human knowledge through questioning, critical discussion, rational argument, and systematic presentation, which can be done through the framework of a religion (particularly metaphysics and it's comedy sidekick theology). There are, of course, some religious authorities who'd rather people did not engage in philosophy because they might get ideas.

Don't worry, MA and MLitt in phil, so I know.

[Jean-Paul Sartre]

Not even usually

It can depend on whether one's religion renders it exclusive really, as is the case with our friend formally known as Jean-Paul Sartre...

I still plan to engage in philosophy. My apologies if my textwall gave any other impression.

[Jolthig]

Snip.

No worries, man. Do what you feel is right. Your post was interesting, and even admirable from myself an Ahmadi Muslim. I too have doubts from time to time, but they have bore fruit for me. A chance to get closer to Allah, and to learn the concept of absolutely certainty. Inshallah (God willing). Faith cannot be alive without this concept.

I do not do the five daily prayers, fastings, or preaching because my religion tells me to, but because of my love for Allah.

Your atheistic phase has never offended me, and you even praised my efforts in defending my faith even when you were atheist, and you and I had several fruitful discussions while you were atheist. You were willing to listen to what I have to say, and read the works that I have sent you. I hope you have enjoyed them, my friend. Whatever path you choose, I pray that God may guide you.

So there is no need to apologize to me my friend as we have always been friendly with one another. If you have any questions on Islam or just wanna talk, you are more than welcome to hop in IDT or TG me. Don't be scared or shy, my friend! Everything is good bro!

May peace come to you whatever path you choose. Amen.

[The New California Republic]

It can depend on whether one's religion renders it exclusive really, as is the case with our friend formally known as Jean-Paul Sartre...

I still plan to engage in philosophy. My apologies if my textwall gave any other impression.

If you want to achieve peace of mind and happiness, have faith. If you want to be a disciple of truth, then search.

[Luminesa]

So, NSG,

After reading St. Augustine's Confessions again, I was struck with a sudden call from the Spirit.

I realized how tired I am. I've been tired of pretending I can hold my personal philosophy together without an ordering principle. I'm also tired of denying the circumstances in my life as being either happenstance or the result of my own good works. I've realized the arrogance with which my personal philosophy was achieved, and simultaneously, the smallness of my mind in constructing it. In the moment, it is easy to be a naysayer, and it is hard to believe something. However, in the long-run, the multiple venoms the flesh is poisoned with creep in, and destroy the sanity and orderliness of the soul. I prayed to Christ, before I left the faith, that he would have me return if he really wanted me in his kingdom. I post this here tonight to say that it does happen. I have returned.

This is not to say that I have learned no lessons from my stint in existential dread: the terror that is the depraved human mind is too great for any person to bear in its barest form. It is by God's mercy that he suspends us from grasping fully the inherent dread that is existence in a sinful world. In a sense, I understand the need for salvation now. The wickedness that is present in reliance on the compass of the inner self is unfathomable, and to get to the bottom of it, one has to sell their soul. It was not worth it to continue to do so.

Some may say, and perhaps rightly, that I was merely too weak to any longer bear the reality that is, and that I instead hold to reality as I want it to be. The truth is that the nature of the reality of the earthly kingdom is so deeply complex and so deeply broken in its current form that we cannot see it as it truly is, ever. We, therefore, all cling to the strands of sanity that are perception, and form our metaphysics based on them. However, human thought is not so deep that it does not have common motifs--rather, we all cope in similar ways. Some might call this the result of evolution, and I would agree that that is true--but I think it is necessary for a species so elevated in matters of certain kinds of intelligence to have certain kinds of philosophical beliefs. At their basest form, many of the world's philosophers converge on many truths--life in this world is fundamentally pain, suffering has no reason, and yet, it is possible to achieve some approximation of a peaceful life. I think this is evidence that consciousness is given mercy in this sinful world, for it is not inconceivable that there might be a much more wicked world where beings were constantly in existential torment, but were unable to escape, either by ending their own life or by means of coping. It is because of the sanctity of life and the pain that sin induces that God has given us philosophy.

Perhaps that hasn't answered the questions of those who are still skeptical, but to them I would respond: what would you have me do? Would you have me be miserable and deny the longing within every inch of my being, even if it may be a delusion, in order to be potentially right? Forget Pascal's Wager--suppose I was right as an atheist? I would still be miserable in my one and only life on this planet. There is more to life than the pleasures of the intellect and of the flesh. There is also faith, hope, and love. If I am a fool, let me be. I will be, if only to once again be the joyful person, the kind person, the generous person. If that means I am wrong, then I will be, for even if I have been right, I have still been but a resounding gong in all of my self-pompousness as an atheist.

To those I have slighted with my arrogance: I cannot promise I will never make a slight out of anger or fear ever again, but I can declare that there is something in me that seeks to change the wicked mockery present in every ounce of my sinful flesh and will. My fear until now has been to die, and I did not know that by fearing death, I was already dead. I am now alive, and I will live as if I am alive. The person that is drowning clings to whatever and whoever they can to save themselves, even at the cost of life. To be more succinct, the people in this thread, the Islamic Discussion Thread, and also the Trans Discussion Thread deserve more than an apology for my conduct. I cannot give them what they need as a result of my actions (if I could, I would). I can only strive to be more loving, and apologize.

I have often said I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong, and have retracted statements when they are incorrect. Even at my most wretched, I refused to let my pride get in the way of that, out of principle. So here again I retract all of my statements of atheism and existentialism, and also my hurtful statements against Muslims. This world may be doomed, and so be it, but a new world comes in its place. This is not to say I will give up my activism for what I know is right--to the contrary, all the more, I will act as a citizen of the City of God while still a pilgrim in the dominion of the ancient foe, who has until now deceived me. I will stand up now not because I know it will be fully realized in this life, but because on the day of the resurrection, the efforts of the Lord will be realized as his kingdoms unite forever. On that day, I will celebrate with the masses of the saved about the treasure we have stored up, not because of our will to, but because of God's power through us.

This post has gone on almost long enough. I'll need to think about what I want to do as a result of this, but one thing's for certain: having my nation name be a French existentialist atheist won't work for me anymore. I'm open to suggestions for my new nation name. I'm also not sure which church I want to be a part of, so if you're looking to convert someone to your flavor, hit me up.

Blessings
-JPS

I'm glad that you've opened your heart to Christ! Praise be to God. As for your new nation name, uuuuhhhhh... well, whatever Christian philosopher strikes your fancy? St. Augustine himself maybe? I think he would be very happy to know his book has helped you open your heart to the Spirit. And most Christians like him one way or another. As for what faith, well...I am a very happy Catholic, and thus I believe the Catholic Church has the fullness of the faith. So if you would like to know anything about the Church, let me know and I'll try to answer your questions as best as I can. Continue to pray and to hold the light of Christ in your heart. Ask for His grace, and He will always give it.