The Christian Discussion Thread X: Originally there were 15

[Salus Maior]

Can you accept that killing another human being, except with due process under the law, is wholly and totally immoral, regardless of whether or not the ultimate outcome of them being born is not good, and regardless of whether you are a Christian or not? Can you accept that letting another person kill another person is wholly and totally immoral?

I would say killing an innocent human life within the law or not is wholly and totally immoral.

[Minachia]

Can you accept that killing another human being, except with due process under the law, is wholly and totally immoral, regardless of whether or not the ultimate outcome of them being born is not good, and regardless of whether you are a Christian or not? Can you accept that letting another person kill another person is wholly and totally immoral?

Yes and that is why I am an absolute pacifist. If you are not an absolute pacifist, you are not "pro-life".
Absolute pacifists are the true moderates.

I don't claim to be pro-life. I support the death penalty.
Also, that debate got ended because it was a bit threadjacky.
So, on the subject of Christianity, what questions do you have?

[Hakons]

Your argument doesn't work in Christianity. Legal abortion doesn't save lives. Every single abortion results in a death, a murder. When one doesn't have an abortion, most of the time it results in a birth. You still aren't arguing in the realm of Christianity. You're using dead, secular arguments that aren't even convincing.

Except, no. When one doesn’t have a legal abortion, they tend to get illegal ones. Which cause two deaths instead of one, or one death and more suffering. You can accuse me of doing something all you like, and it does not change the point. All you do is drive women from hospitals into alleys. Of course, some women may choose to have kids because abortion is illegalized. We can look at general poverty to see what happens when one has too many kids. Oh wait. Life sucks, crime rises, the kids sin, and end up murdering others. Wonderful outcome for everyone! We’ve driven someone into drug use, destroyed another person’s life, and got somebody killed! But hey, at least it wasn’t a fetus who died.

Y’wanna learn how to actually prevent abortion? Contraceptives and sex ed.

Once again, if you won't discuss Christianity in the CDT, don't post about things like abortion. Stop demonstrating you're "not to escalate things" post was a complete farce.

I am trying to explain why Christians should be for legalizing abortion. That I do not use a Bible Verse to do it is irrelevant.

You're secular argument isn't even that good. There are way to many huge assumptions without a shred of evidence. "Those stupid poor people must be aborted, or else they'll be a murderer" is quite a terrible take.


"That I do not use a Bible Verse to do it is irrelevant"

In other words, you're making no effort to actually relate what you're saying to Christianity on the Christian Discussion Thread. Stop threadjacking, as I and now others have repeatedly told you.

[Kowani]

Except, no. When one doesn’t have a legal abortion, they tend to get illegal ones. Which cause two deaths instead of one, or one death and more suffering. You can accuse me of doing something all you like, and it does not change the point. All you do is drive women from hospitals into alleys. Of course, some women may choose to have kids because abortion is illegalized. We can look at general poverty to see what happens when one has too many kids. Oh wait. Life sucks, crime rises, the kids sin, and end up murdering others. Wonderful outcome for everyone! We’ve driven someone into drug use, destroyed another person’s life, and got somebody killed! But hey, at least it wasn’t a fetus who died.

Y’wanna learn how to actually prevent abortion? Contraceptives and sex ed.
I am trying to explain why Christians should be for legalizing abortion. That I do not use a Bible Verse to do it is irrelevant.

You're secular argument isn't even that good. There are way to many huge assumptions without a shred of evidence. "Those stupid poor people must be aborted, or else they'll be a murderer" is quite a terrible take.

No, actually. My secular argument is based on bodily autonomy, but that doesn’t fly with Christians because there’s no actual defense against it. But. To your original point. Poor people have a larger amount of kids. This is true everywhere. Poor people also commit more crime. This is also true everywhere. Poor people will not have the resources to illegally get an abortion doctor. (The rich will, so that’s irrelevant.) A poor person with an unwanted pregnancy will get an unsafe abortion, and that’s the end of it. If they have the child, it is very likely that they will grow up to be a criminal, especially in societies that prohibit abortion anyway.

"That I do not use a Bible Verse to do it is irrelevant"

In other words, you're making no effort to actually relate what you're saying to Christianity on the Christian Discussion Thread.

You missed the point entirely, through some divine feat of willful ignorance.
Stop threadjacking, as I and now others have repeatedly told you.[/quote] How. You notice how after Minachia asked, everyone (including me) stopped talking about abortion? And the debate was dead until you dig it back up? Yeah, the irony is strong with this one.

[Stonok]

Ah. I like this idea.

This idea is basic Christian Doctrine professed by most if not all denominations.

I figured it was already doctrine, it just now dawned on me though.

[Hakons]

You're secular argument isn't even that good. There are way to many huge assumptions without a shred of evidence. "Those stupid poor people must be aborted, or else they'll be a murderer" is quite a terrible take.

No, actually. My secular argument is based on bodily autonomy, but that doesn’t fly with Christians because there’s no actual defense against it. But. To your original point. Poor people have a larger amount of kids. This is true everywhere. Poor people also commit more crime. This is also true everywhere. Poor people will not have the resources to illegally get an abortion doctor. (The rich will, so that’s irrelevant.) A poor person with an unwanted pregnancy will get an unsafe abortion, and that’s the end of it. If they have the child, it is very likely that they will grow up to be a criminal, especially in societies that prohibit abortion anyway.

"That I do not use a Bible Verse to do it is irrelevant"

In other words, you're making no effort to actually relate what you're saying to Christianity on the Christian Discussion Thread.

You missed the point entirely, through some divine feat of willful ignorance.

Stop threadjacking, as I and now others have repeatedly told you.

How. You notice how after Minachia asked, everyone (including me) stopped talking about abortion? And the debate was dead until you dig it back up? Yeah, the irony is strong with this one.

I replied before reading other posts

Let's end it then

[Kowani]

No, actually. My secular argument is based on bodily autonomy, but that doesn’t fly with Christians because there’s no actual defense against it. But. To your original point. Poor people have a larger amount of kids. This is true everywhere. Poor people also commit more crime. This is also true everywhere. Poor people will not have the resources to illegally get an abortion doctor. (The rich will, so that’s irrelevant.) A poor person with an unwanted pregnancy will get an unsafe abortion, and that’s the end of it. If they have the child, it is very likely that they will grow up to be a criminal, especially in societies that prohibit abortion anyway.

You missed the point entirely, through some divine feat of willful ignorance.
How. You notice how after Minachia asked, everyone (including me) stopped talking about abortion? And the debate was dead until you dig it back up? Yeah, the irony is strong with this one.

I replied before reading other posts

Let's end it then

Ahh. I see. You’re cool.

Yes, let’s.

[Nordengrund]

Can we move this abortion argument out of our wholesome Christian thread please?

Sure.
So, let's get something even more controversial started.

Pineapple on pizza: Heresy or not?

[Camelone]

Sure.
So, let's get something even more controversial started.

Pineapple on pizza: Heresy or not?

Worse than demon worship!

[Lord Dominator]

If the Lord wanted pizza to have more toppings than cheese, then they would be put into the pizza by default. Which they aren't.

[Luminesa]

Sure.
So, let's get something even more controversial started.

Pineapple on pizza: Heresy or not?

Spinach and feta is better.

[Strange Island]

Ok How is it orse than demon worship. it's worse than breaking a bone but not that

[Camelone]

Ok How is it orse than demon worship. it's worse than breaking a bone but not that

I was being hyperbolic for attempted comedic effects.

[Stonok]

Anyone have any thoughts on Theologia Germanica? Since I read CS Lewis' Mere Christianity and most of The Screwtape Letters I've decided I may as well look into the book that gave him most of his theological ideas. Waiting on it to arrive now. Would love to hear anyone who has any knowledge of it give their opinion before I read it though.

[The Blaatschapen]

Sure.
So, let's get something even more controversial started.

Pineapple on pizza: Heresy or not?

Of course not.

The bible does not mention pizza, does it?

As such, it is completely kosher

[Tarsonis]

Pineapple on pizza: Heresy or not?

Of course not.

The bible does not mention pizza, does it?

As such, it is completely kosher

Another comandment likely lost to Moses’s clumsiness

[Northern Davincia]

Of course not.

The bible does not mention pizza, does it?

As such, it is completely kosher

Another comandment likely lost to Moses’s clumsiness

If only we knew what topping was appropriate for Passover...

[Diopolis]

I got to thinking today; if all Christians are, in a sense, priests, does that mean any Christian could in theory baptize a believer and it be valid?

Yes.

[Northern Davincia]

I got to thinking today; if all Christians are, in a sense, priests, does that mean any Christian could in theory baptize a believer and it be valid?

Yes.

This reminds me when I read Y: The Last Man for a literature course, and came to the conclusion that the last Catholic man alive would technically be pope.
My leaps in logic have won me several Olympic medals.

[Stonok]

Yes.

This reminds me when I read Y: The Last Man for a literature course, and came to the conclusion that the last Catholic man alive would technically be pope.
My leaps in logic have won me several Olympic medals.

Technically they're not leaps if they're true.

[Tarsonis]

Yes.

This reminds me when I read Y: The Last Man for a literature course, and came to the conclusion that the last Catholic man alive would technically be pope.
My leaps in logic have won me several Olympic medals.

That would technically be true

[Lord Dominator]

Technically correct is the best kind of correct

[Salus Maior]

This reminds me when I read Y: The Last Man for a literature course, and came to the conclusion that the last Catholic man alive would technically be pope.
My leaps in logic have won me several Olympic medals.

That would technically be true

Well, not if they weren't ever given Apostolic succession.

[Tarsonis]

That would technically be true

Well, not if they weren't ever given Apostolic succession.

They wouldn't be a formally consecrated Pope that is true, so not by De Jure standards But if they are the only Christian male alive, they would de facto be the supreme pontiff of the entire Church, given that they would pretty much be the entire Church.

[Regal Georgia]

Reading through the General threads this morning has further reinforced my stance that you cannot have discussions regarding the morality of abortions and expect anything other than frustration. You cannot have common ground with someone working from a perpendicular moral framework to your own.