Would you give your kids to Trump?

[Thermodolia]

That’s a little unfair to say in my opinion.

Perhaps, but I feel I have the means to give that child a good life, with a good moral upbringing. Not all kids like being in the spotlight, being the child of the POTUS automatically brings a ton of publicity. There’s also the possibility of being spoiled or naive as a result, which is never good. The president also, understandably, doesn’t have much time for family bonding, and a child of theirs could easily feel neglected by their father’s absence.

Would you (you personally) rather be spoiled and naive but have the benefit of a Trump upbringing... or instead be raised by a regular run of the mill parent who promises a good moral education?

No I would not.

[Thermodolia]

Would you (you personally) rather be spoiled and naive but have the benefit of a Trump upbringing... or instead be raised by a regular run of the mill parent who promises a good moral education?

Mmmm no, because I was raised by a regular run of the mill parent that gave me a good moral education, and I am very grateful that my father made enough to give me what I needed, not what I wanted.

Even through I had a pretty fucked childhood I still wouldn’t want to be a spoiled and naive rich idiot

[Thermodolia]

He's the president, not the pope. He's nobody's "embodiment of morality."

Reality disagrees. Since he became president it has e.g. become far more socially acceptable to treat women like dirt.
Because if the prez does it, so can Joe.

No it’s still not “socially acceptable” nor did it magically become “socially acceptable”. What you’re actually seeing is raw America, the American that decided to say fuck society I don’t care anymore.

Trump is symptom not a cause

[Erithaca]

I would like to raise my own kids, but it seems like his kids have turned out fine.

[Thermodolia]

Far outweighed by the power of Trump’s god like resources (top schools, top line contacts, more gold then you can spend in a lifetime)

I think that argument is very strong if you come from a middle-class or low-income household, where it is difficult to afford the basic things needed to succeed in America (higher education tuition fees, access to internships, top jobs etc), but if you come from an upper-middle-income or high-income family (ie lawyer, doctor, banker, accountants etc) I think the benefit of becoming ultra-rich like Trump is marginal at best in terms of your ability to succeed in life, and far outweighed by the psychological and emotional trauma of knowing your family gave you up to someone else

Fuck. I’m considered low middle or poor. I don’t ever want to be fucking rich as Trump.

[Torrocca]

However, the sad reality is that social immobility in America means that if you cannot afford the things I listed earlier for your children, their future is pretty much fucked. You won't have the ability to succeed later in life, you will be trapped in pretty much the same socio-economic class as your parents with practically no opportunity to advance. You will have trouble finding good-paying jobs, you will have trouble living beyond paycheck to paycheck, you will have trouble paying rent or buying a house, you will have trouble having a child and raising a family and all the related expenses, and if you ever get sick you can expect to go bankrupt. Unless that's the reality you want your children to be condemned to, in the socio-economically immobile world we live in, then unless you can afford the things I listed earlier which are crucial to have even the opportunity or chance to succeed in today's modern and technologically-advanced economy, the kind thing to do is for your kid to be raised by someone who can.

New American Revolution when, because fuck this shit?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I wouldn't lift a finger to help Trump if his life were at risk, I'm not going to give him a child of mine. The thought alone makes me want to hurl.

[Purgatio]

However, the sad reality is that social immobility in America means that if you cannot afford the things I listed earlier for your children, their future is pretty much fucked. You won't have the ability to succeed later in life, you will be trapped in pretty much the same socio-economic class as your parents with practically no opportunity to advance. You will have trouble finding good-paying jobs, you will have trouble living beyond paycheck to paycheck, you will have trouble paying rent or buying a house, you will have trouble having a child and raising a family and all the related expenses, and if you ever get sick you can expect to go bankrupt. Unless that's the reality you want your children to be condemned to, in the socio-economically immobile world we live in, then unless you can afford the things I listed earlier which are crucial to have even the opportunity or chance to succeed in today's modern and technologically-advanced economy, the kind thing to do is for your kid to be raised by someone who can.

New American Revolution when, because fuck this shit?

Sure, we can discuss how to solve the rigid social immobility in America today, but that's a completely separate debate. All I'm saying is under current economic and social conditions, if you come from a lower-income and middle-class family, giving your kid to Trump is completely rational because its difficult to see how children raised in such households will have adequate opportunities to succeed and advance otherwise

[Purgatio]

I think that argument is very strong if you come from a middle-class or low-income household, where it is difficult to afford the basic things needed to succeed in America (higher education tuition fees, access to internships, top jobs etc), but if you come from an upper-middle-income or high-income family (ie lawyer, doctor, banker, accountants etc) I think the benefit of becoming ultra-rich like Trump is marginal at best in terms of your ability to succeed in life, and far outweighed by the psychological and emotional trauma of knowing your family gave you up to someone else

Fuck. I’m considered low middle or poor. I don’t ever want to be fucking rich as Trump.

You don't have to be as rich as Trump, that's why I conceded that if you come from an upper-middle income or upper-income family, the "give your kids to Trump" trade-off doesn't make sense anymore. You don't have to be 'mega-rich' like Trump to give your children adequate opportunities to succeed. But otherwise, the proposal (sadly) makes sense, and that should say a lot about the state of social immobility in America today.

[Purgatio]

I would like to raise my own kids, but it seems like his kids have turned out fine.

Yeah, no. Ivanka seems to have turned out fine, at least in terms of diligence and business acumen and becoming a generally-productive individual (even if one disagrees with her politics), but Eric and Donald Trump Jr. really don't seem to be well-adjusted individuals, so Trump's parenting is clearly a little hit-and-miss.

[Thermodolia]

But it buys good schools, robust healthcare (in the USA), protection, big house... lots of networked allies for jobs and opportunities, gov contacts...

Can you honestly say a child is better off without those things just so that you can be a parent?

A big house isn’t necessary. I spent part of my childhood in a single wide trailer and was perfectly content.

I personally can say without a doubt that once I get out of college and get a better job and settle down, I could provide my future child with good schools, good healthcare, and a good life. I can’t provide government contacts but I could help my child get their first job.

Besides, I think a little hard work can make someone appreciate what they have more than if it’s just handed to them.

Same here. I grew up in a lower class family, we where below the federal poverty line for most of my very early childhood. However things seemed to go to shit once we moved into higher classes, by the time I left to join the military they where upper middle.

My life from 5th grade to high school was absolutely shit. Even though we had “money”, I never actually felt like it was Home.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I would like to raise my own kids, but it seems like his kids have turned out fine.

Yeah, no. Ivanka seems to have turned out fine, at least in terms of diligence and business acumen and becoming a generally-productive individual (even if one disagrees with her politics), but Eric and Donald Trump Jr. really don't seem to be well-adjusted individuals, so Trump's parenting is clearly a little hit-and-miss.

That may have been due to Ivana's parenting more than Trump's. He doesn't seem to be a hands on father. Barron himself seems like he's being raised by Melania alone.

[Cedoria]

You have a new kid. Donald Trump wants your kid (he would like to be a good father).

So let’s say, the law allows you to give your newborn kid to Donald Trump. The Donald would become the legal father under the law (and the sole recognized guardian).

He’s rich as a Lannister, President of a powerful nation, and has powerful allies in all sectors of society. Clearly, he can provide the kid with far more economic resources and social opportunities. In strict material terms, he can offer the kid a “better” future.

However, he might not necessarily be the best moral guide. Furthermore, he would be very busy as President. And having said this, there’s the obvious con that you won’t see your kid again.

Having said this, please discuss:

1. Would you give your kid to the Donald? Why or why not?
2. Objectively speaking, if you truly loved your kid and wanted the best for them... should you give them to Trump?

I believe that after a great deal of deliberation, I would be forced to conclude that giving to Trump is the way to go.

Love means giving the kid d the best shot they have to be “successful” in life. And sometimes, that means going with different parents.

I mean think about it. He’s a president, he’s rich as a Lannister, he’s got allies everywhere. The kid will go to very high places with him. I must let go.

No. I'd sooner hire a Catholic priest as a babysitter (and I wouldn't do that).

[Purgatio]

Yeah, no. Ivanka seems to have turned out fine, at least in terms of diligence and business acumen and becoming a generally-productive individual (even if one disagrees with her politics), but Eric and Donald Trump Jr. really don't seem to be well-adjusted individuals, so Trump's parenting is clearly a little hit-and-miss.

That may have been due to Ivana's parenting more than Trump's. He doesn't seem to be a hands on father. Barron himself seems like he's being raised by Melania alone.

Yeah, Donald Trump really doesn't give the impression that he's particularly interested in the task of raising children

[Greater Cesnica]

Oh god, no.

[Purpelia]

If you don't have a child it's literally impossible to say what you'd do. And I don't. So I can't. Still this is crucial to point out to everyone arguing.
Remember, the decisions you make as a parent are often hormonal and not intellectual. If someone tries to shoot your kid you don't stand there deliberating about the futility of self sacrifice and the child's inevitable starvation even if it does not die by a second bullet but jump right in front of that moving slug. So what you'd actually do here god only knows.

[Shaggtopia]

When people say "think of the children!" I often wonder what they mean by that, this thread is a pretty spot on example for why I am often disturbed by the politics of children.

[Greater Cesnica]

When people say "think of the children!" I often wonder what they mean by that, this thread is a pretty spot on example for why I am often disturbed by the politics of children.

The world 'child or 'children is typically a kind of dog-whistle that, in the world of politics, immediately overrules a sane and reasonable political stance, because the opposition knows that you wouldn't dare be so callous as to disregard the rights of pure, innocent children.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

When people say "think of the children!" I often wonder what they mean by that, this thread is a pretty spot on example for why I am often disturbed by the politics of children.

The world 'child or 'children is typically a kind of dog-whistle that, in the world of politics, immediately overrules a sane and reasonable political stance, because the opposition knows that you wouldn't dare be so callous as to disregard the rights of pure, innocent children.

Parents make constant decisions thinking of the wellbeing of their children all the time. So do governments.

[Greater Cesnica]

The world 'child or 'children is typically a kind of dog-whistle that, in the world of politics, immediately overrules a sane and reasonable political stance, because the opposition knows that you wouldn't dare be so callous as to disregard the rights of pure, innocent children.

Parents make constant decisions thinking of the well-being of their children all the time. So do governments.

And that is perfectly all right. However when it comes to things such as national defense, our governments (at least the U.S) take a less discretionary stance. Mainly, Omar Khadr was an example. The Canadian government tried hard to get him back home, and only succeeded about a decade later. He threw a grenade though a smoke and flame-obscured warzone, and killed a U.S soldier. This is according to the U.S government anyways.

[Realistic Union]

No, only snowflakes do that, I will teach my child what is power and discipline, by the way Republicanism looks to much soft against illegal foreigners, fascism will do the job

[Duvniask]

He’s rich as a Lannister (...)

Jesus Christ, you're still doing this Lannister shit years later.

However, he might not necessarily be the best moral guide.

Ya think? Narcissistic megalomaniacs are not examples to follow, let alone be raised by.

1. Would you give your kid to the Donald? Why or why not?
2. Objectively speaking, if you truly loved your kid and wanted the best for them... should you give them to Trump?

I doubt Trump would give a single thought to any hypothetical kids of mine. He also does not posses any material comforts that I myself lack/am desperately in need of.
Even in terms of "success" as you phrase it, I doubt Trump's business practices would teach them how to be truly "successful", given how the man seems to squander wealth on a massive scale, time and time again.

Yeah, no. Ivanka seems to have turned out fine, at least in terms of diligence and business acumen and becoming a generally-productive individual (even if one disagrees with her politics), but Eric and Donald Trump Jr. really don't seem to be well-adjusted individuals, so Trump's parenting is clearly a little hit-and-miss.

That may have been due to Ivana's parenting more than Trump's. He doesn't seem to be a hands on father. Barron himself seems like he's being raised by Melania alone.

Effectively meaning that having a child "raised by Trump" is little different from just raising the child yourself anyway. He might dole out some money (most likely because of social obligations, not any genuine concern for their well-being), but we'd be doing the hard work of parenting, and if not, we've left them to their fate - whomever Trump decides to leave them in the hands of.

[Geneviev]

I wouldn't give my hypothetical kids to anyone. The fact that this is the person who said he would date his daughter makes it even less likely that my hypothetical kids can go to him.

[Jjii]

If it was a boy, sure. It would be interesting to see how a chunk of my genetics turn out under the parentage of the Don, and maybe if he's so wanting we could work out an arrangement where I am paid for letting him do my work (lol). If it is a girl I would tell Donald no.

[Grenartia]

I would like to raise my own kids, but it seems like his kids have turned out fine.

That's what people said about him in relation to his dad back in the 80s.

I wouldn't lift a finger to help Trump if his life were at risk, I'm not going to give him a child of mine. The thought alone makes me want to hurl.

If Donald Trump was drowning, and only you could save him, what kind of sandwich would you make?

New American Revolution when, because fuck this shit?

Sure, we can discuss how to solve the rigid social immobility in America today, but that's a completely separate debate. All I'm saying is under current economic and social conditions, if you come from a lower-income and middle-class family, giving your kid to Trump is completely rational because its difficult to see how children raised in such households will have adequate opportunities to succeed and advance otherwise

Sure, they'll have opportunities they wouldn't otherwise have, but at what cost?

Certainly not a price worth paying, if you ask me.

I would like to raise my own kids, but it seems like his kids have turned out fine.

Yeah, no. Ivanka seems to have turned out fine, at least in terms of diligence and business acumen and becoming a generally-productive individual (even if one disagrees with her politics), but Eric and Donald Trump Jr. really don't seem to be well-adjusted individuals, so Trump's parenting is clearly a little hit-and-miss.

I honestly have doubts about Ivanka. She likely is just as fucked up as her father and brothers, but merely does a better job of hiding it.

No, only snowflakes do that, I will teach my child what is power and discipline, by the way Republicanism looks to much soft against illegal foreigners, fascism will do the job

Careful not to cut yourself on that edge, kiddo.