UK Politics Thread VIII—Can't Let EU Go

[Hydesland]

Don't find anything odd about the Daily Mail, seemingly apropos of nothing, running yet another story on how Jeremy Corbyn is a Jew hater and terrorist lover?

No, why would I find it odd that the Daily Mail would want to attack Corbyn?

[Ifreann]

Don't find anything odd about the Daily Mail, seemingly apropos of nothing, running yet another story on how Jeremy Corbyn is a Jew hater and terrorist lover?

No, why would I find it odd that the Daily Mail would want to attack Corbyn?

Well there doesn't seem to be anything of consequence to the story beyond that. A Labour backbencher went to a memorial for people killed by Israel, so what?

[Hydesland]

No, why would I find it odd that the Daily Mail would want to attack Corbyn?

Well there doesn't seem to be anything of consequence to the story beyond that. A Labour backbencher went to a memorial for people killed by Israel, so what?

Did you read this?

[The Archregimancy]

No, why would I find it odd that the Daily Mail would want to attack Corbyn?

Well there doesn't seem to be anything of consequence to the story beyond that. A Labour backbencher went to a memorial for people killed by Israel, so what?

There's much more to it than that; it's more 'Labour backbencher went to memorial for people killed by Israel, which also included a memorial for the Palestinians who helped plan the murder of Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics, and seems to have been involved in a wreath-laying ceremony at the latter'.

Mr Corbyn claims to have been 'present, but not involved' at this wreath-laying ceremony; which isn't just mealy-mouthed, but is also rank hypocrisy given his past criticism of Ronald Reagan's Bitburg visit in 1985, which in light of recent events seems more than a little ironic on several counts:

Jeremy Corbyn called for former US President Ronald Reagan to cancel a “disgraceful” planned visit to a German Military Cemetery at Bitburg in 1985, on the grounds that it contained the graves of 49 Nazi SS officers.

The visit, which was organised in the spirit of reconciliation between the US and Germany, involved Reagan honouring the German dead from the Second World War with a wreath.

While there was no suggestion that Reagan would be anywhere near Stormtrooper graves, their very presence, Corbyn argued, would cause “offence.”

In an early-day motion on May 2, 1985, Corbyn — then a backbench MP — condemned the official engagement as an “offence to the memories of Jews and so many others persecuted and murdered by the Nazis,” and described it as “insensitive and ill-advised”.

The Mail is no doubt pursuing its own agenda, and its current chest-thumping about anti-Semitism is more than a little hypocritical given its own past; but I'm hardly a Daily Mail reader, and at this point it's readily apparent that Mr Corbyn has a problem as regards past implicit (and in some cases explicit) support for certain Palestinian groups that goes well beyond justified criticism of Israel's policies towards the Palestinians. I'm entirely prepared to accept that Mr Corbyn is not himself an anti-Semite; but he seems to be utterly blind to why his behaviour might give cause for concern to Jewish groups, or why that behaviour might be seen as facilitating anti-Semitism by some members of his party, or why that behaviour gives his opponents from all political perspectives a stick to beat him with that's not going to go away.

The fact that the Mail is one of the institutions and individuals criticising Corbyn doesn't invalidate all of the criticism. It's not as if Margaret Hodge has a dodgy 1930s pro-fascist past.

[Ifreann]

Well there doesn't seem to be anything of consequence to the story beyond that. A Labour backbencher went to a memorial for people killed by Israel, so what?

Did you read this?

Well there doesn't seem to be anything of consequence to the story beyond that. A Labour backbencher went to a memorial for people killed by Israel, so what?

There's much more to it than that; it's more 'Labour backbencher went to memorial for people killed by Israel, which also included a memorial for the Palestinians who murdered Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics, and seems to have been involved in a wreath-laying ceremony at the latter'.

Mr Corbyn claims to have been 'present, but not involved' at this wreath-laying ceremony; which isn't just mealy-mouthed, but is also rank hypocrisy given his past criticism of Ronald Reagan's Bitburg visit in 1985, which in light of recent events seems more than a little ironic on several counts:

Jeremy Corbyn called for former US President Ronald Reagan to cancel a “disgraceful” planned visit to a German Military Cemetery at Bitburg in 1985, on the grounds that it contained the graves of 49 Nazi SS officers.

The visit, which was organised in the spirit of reconciliation between the US and Germany, involved Reagan honouring the German dead from the Second World War with a wreath.

While there was no suggestion that Reagan would be anywhere near Stormtrooper graves, their very presence, Corbyn argued, would cause “offence.”

In an early-day motion on May 2, 1985, Corbyn — then a backbench MP — condemned the official engagement as an “offence to the memories of Jews and so many others persecuted and murdered by the Nazis,” and described it as “insensitive and ill-advised”.

The Mail is no doubt pursuing its own agenda, and its current chest-thumping about anti-Semitism is more than a little hypocritical given its own past; but I'm hardly a Daily Mail reader, and at this point it's readily apparent that Mr Corbyn has a problem as regards past implicit (and in some cases explicit) support for certain Palestinian groups that goes well beyond justified criticism of Israel's policies towards the Palestinians. I'm entirely prepared to accept that Mr Corbyn is not himself an anti-Semite; but he seems to be utterly blind to why his behaviour might give cause for concern to Jewish groups, or why that behaviour might be seen as facilitating anti-Semitism by some members of his party, or why that behaviour gives his opponents from all political perspectives a stick to beat him with that's not going to go away.

The fact that the Mail is one of the institutions and individuals criticising Corbyn doesn't invalidate all of the criticism. It's not as if Margaret Hodge has a dodgy 1930s pro-fascist past.

Fair enough, I've been assuming that this was just the Mail being outraged at "anti-semite" Corbyn for showing any sympathies for Palestine/opposition to Israel.

[The Archregimancy]

Fair enough, I've been assuming that this was just the Mail being outraged at "anti-semite" Corbyn for showing any sympathies for Palestine/opposition to Israel.

I think you're entirely justified to be skeptical about something coming from the Mail, and to question what the Mail's agenda might be.

But even the Mail isn't completely wrong all of the time.

It's entirely true, for example, that Lena Dunham has posted three VERY revealing images of her NUDE body, and that Love Island's Laura Anderson has lashed out at goading trolls.

[Imperializt Russia]

If you have no problem with the existence of a state of Israel, as I'm sure Corbyn does not, and believes the manner in which the Israeli state has operated with regards to territories it has literally seized by military force, which Corbyn does, then regardless of distaste for methods taken by groups such as Hamas, PLO et al (which Corbyn does voice), it would be seen as inevitable that armed groups like Hamas, PLO et al would form, organise militarily against Israel, and then become the subject of war crimes by Israel (bombing a hotel in Tunisia or whatever they apparently did).

Much like we have, in time, come to accept the inevitability of the IRA, their legitimacy as a group, and now as an actual political force which (ostensibly) shares power in Stormont, the building they fought over for about seventy years. In spite of the fact they were brutal and in my eyes 'irredeemably' so and committed some horrific attacks and atrocities.

[Ifreann]

Fair enough, I've been assuming that this was just the Mail being outraged at "anti-semite" Corbyn for showing any sympathies for Palestine/opposition to Israel.

I think you're entirely justified to be skeptical about something coming from the Mail, and to question what the Mail's agenda might be.

But even the Mail isn't completely wrong all of the time.

It's entirely true, for example, that Lena Dunham has posted three VERY revealing images of her NUDE body, and that Love Island's Laura Anderson has lashed out at goading trolls.

How fortunate that I had already removed my monocle before reading of such scandalous stories.

[Vassenor]

Wreathes don't kill people, but the £490 million worth of arms sales from Britain to Israel do. Regularly.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Wreathes don't kill people, but the £490 million worth of arms sales from Britain to Israel do. Regularly.

To protect a state of thoroughly good eggs from attack from nasty terrorist types. You've also made it quite clear on a number of occasions how important it is to you that our leaders avoid unwise decisions made for non-economic reasons that may threaten jobs, growth and output. I'll put you down for "support" on the arms sales question.

[Ifreann]

Wreathes don't kill people, but the £490 million worth of arms sales from Britain to Israel do. Regularly.

To protect a state of thoroughly good eggs from attack from nasty terrorist types. You've also made it quite clear on a number of occasions how important it is to you that our leaders avoid avoid unwise decisions made for non-economic reasons that may threaten jobs, growth and output. I'll put you down for "support" on the arms sales question.

To create new jobs and increase economic activity, especially ahead of Brexit, Britain should look into arming the Palestinians as well.

[The New California Republic]

To protect a state of thoroughly good eggs from attack from nasty terrorist types. You've also made it quite clear on a number of occasions how important it is to you that our leaders avoid avoid unwise decisions made for non-economic reasons that may threaten jobs, growth and output. I'll put you down for "support" on the arms sales question.

To create new jobs and increase economic activity, especially ahead of Brexit, Britain should look into arming the Palestinians as well.

Shame we sold the Harriers to the USMC, I'm sure the Palestinians would have found them useful.

[Dumb Ideologies]

To protect a state of thoroughly good eggs from attack from nasty terrorist types. You've also made it quite clear on a number of occasions how important it is to you that our leaders avoid avoid unwise decisions made for non-economic reasons that may threaten jobs, growth and output. I'll put you down for "support" on the arms sales question.

To create new jobs and increase economic activity, especially ahead of Brexit, Britain should look into arming the Palestinians as well.

Perhaps not. Unlike our cheerful Israeli friends, the Palestinians form part of wider networks of bad-things funding and inspiration that require us to eventually invest more to protect ourselves here. Holistically speaking, it would be more prudent to follow an older foreign policy model; get them hooked on high-grade British-produced opium. I'm sure the growing conditions in Rees-Mogg's orangery are superb.

[Ifreann]

To create new jobs and increase economic activity, especially ahead of Brexit, Britain should look into arming the Palestinians as well.

Perhaps not. Unlike our cheerful Israeli friends, the Palestinians form part of wider networks of bad-things funding and inspiration that require us to eventually invest more to protect ourselves here. Holistically speaking, it would be more prudent to follow an older foreign policy model; get them hooked on high-grade British-produced opium. I'm sure the growing conditions in Rees-Mogg's orangery are superb.

Nothing like a good opium war.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Perhaps not. Unlike our cheerful Israeli friends, the Palestinians form part of wider networks of bad-things funding and inspiration that require us to eventually invest more to protect ourselves here. Holistically speaking, it would be more prudent to follow an older foreign policy model; get them hooked on high-grade British-produced opium. I'm sure the growing conditions in Rees-Mogg's orangery are superb.

Nothing like a good opium war.

Good chap. That's the spirit. Huzzah!

[Ifreann]

Nothing like a good opium war.

Good chap. That's the spirit. Huzzah!

Launch the dreadnoughts! We sail for the Middle Orient!

[The Free Joy State]

To create new jobs and increase economic activity, especially ahead of Brexit, Britain should look into arming the Palestinians as well.

Perhaps not. Unlike our cheerful Israeli friends, the Palestinians form part of wider networks of bad-things funding and inspiration that require us to eventually invest more to protect ourselves here. Holistically speaking, it would be more prudent to follow an older foreign policy model; get them hooked on high-grade British-produced opium. I'm sure the growing conditions in Rees-Mogg's orangery are superb.

Not to mention that touring the Victorian splendour of the reconstructed opium dens of Olde London Town could be quite a tourist attraction, not to mention a way to encourage everyone at home to "buy British" -- repeatedly -- after Brexit.

[The Archregimancy]

Perhaps not. Unlike our cheerful Israeli friends, the Palestinians form part of wider networks of bad-things funding and inspiration that require us to eventually invest more to protect ourselves here. Holistically speaking, it would be more prudent to follow an older foreign policy model; get them hooked on high-grade British-produced opium. I'm sure the growing conditions in Rees-Mogg's orangery are superb.

Nothing like a good opium war.

I far prefer going to war with the Spaniards after they lop off the left ear of one of Her Majesty's sturdy brig captains.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Putting my personal appreciation for the work of the Israelis aside, the cod-Trotskyite left are evidently increasingly frustrated by the success of a formerly disadvantaged group in persistently exploiting their history to recast stances against or even neutrality to their political program as axiomatically demonstrating prejudice and hatred. One has to wonder whether disdain for such tactics will also impact the Corbynists' relations with the feminist movement, or whether this grand revelation will prove selective.

[Imperializt Russia]

Putting my personal appreciation for the work of the Israelis aside, the cod-Trotskyite left are evidently increasingly frustrated by the success of a formerly disadvantaged group in persistently exploiting their history to recast stances against or even neutrality to their political program as axiomatically demonstrating prejudice and hatred. One has to wonder whether disdain for such tactics will also impact the Corbynists' relations with the feminist movement, or whether this grand revelation will prove selective.

The fuck are you even talking about?

[Souseiseki]

Putting my personal appreciation for the work of the Israelis aside, the cod-Trotskyite left are evidently increasingly frustrated by the success of a formerly disadvantaged group in persistently exploiting their history to recast stances against or even neutrality to their political program as axiomatically demonstrating prejudice and hatred. One has to wonder whether disdain for such tactics will also impact the Corbynists' relations with the feminist movement, or whether this grand revelation will prove selective.

The fuck are you even talking about?

uhhhhhhh

i think they're comparing an opposition/lack of support for israel being cast as anti-semeitic to an opposition/lack of support for feminism being cast as misogynist, and we're hypocrites for not seeing this?

something like that

e: i got blocked by twitter radical feminists the other day. another casualty in the great feminist civil war. may they forever argue over whether or not i belong in a women's cemetery or not. rest in peace.

[Questers]

Israel is not a friend to Britain.

Britain likes to pretend Israel is a friend. But they aren't.

I don't care if Corbyn laid the wreathe or not. In some respects I would prefer that he did.

[Questers]

To create new jobs and increase economic activity, especially ahead of Brexit, Britain should look into arming the Palestinians as well.

Perhaps not. Unlike our cheerful Israeli friends, the Palestinians form part of wider networks of bad-things funding and inspiration that require us to eventually invest more to protect ourselves here. Holistically speaking, it would be more prudent to follow an older foreign policy model; get them hooked on high-grade British-produced opium. I'm sure the growing conditions in Rees-Mogg's orangery are superb.

Israel is a material threat to Britain's security. Palestine plainly is not.

[The New California Republic]

Israel is a material threat to Britain's security.

In what way?

[Fartsniffage]

Israel is a material threat to Britain's security.

In what way?

Dunno what Questers is talking about, but there was the time that Mossad cloned legit UK passport numbers to give to its people, making all British passports suspect and putting their holders at risk.