NationStates

Vassenor wrote:

Irish Laren wrote:
It's actually not, the problem is that the EU is constantly moving from Brussels to Strasbourg and back once in a month and wants to decide over it's members (like Poland and Hungary wants to secure their borders, and the EU is threatening them and also forcing it's members to take thousands of illegal immigrants in their countries

Funny how the criticism always boils down to BUT IMMIGRANTS.

You did read half the thing of what i said, and i said ILLEGAL immigrants

Vassenor wrote:

Modern Skepticism wrote:Incompetent tyranny if you stay in the EU government, incompetent tyranny if you stay out.

Some care about personal liberty (which seems to be anathema to both governments anyhow. Just look at the surveillance laws), some care about sovereignty despite being nowhere near to being econimically and politically independent on the international scale thanks to excessive free trade and US interference, and some care about the money and only the money and there is nothing but the money (all hail our god The Economy!)

But really, is it just me or is the UK now another European backwater that still thinks it’s relevant to the world at large?

It pretty much is. We've been a bird riding on the back of the American elephant picking off flies for years.

Sixth largest economy in the world. But yeah, it’s not America so it doesn’t mean anything.

So I guess there are only two countries on the planet that matter then?

Dooom35796821595 wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
It pretty much is. We've been a bird riding on the back of the American elephant picking off flies for years.

Sixth largest economy in the world. But yeah, it’s not America so it doesn’t mean anything.

So I guess there are only two countries on the planet that matter then?

To be quite honest, yes. Though make that around 3 (US, Russia, China). Add secondary powers as you will and feel free to include the UK. Indeed, sixth largest economy and that seems the only real thing to boast about while the tides of political and social chaos perform their mad ballet in the background. Though really, the US and much of the West is the same way, but the UK is the true leader of the world in terms of political incompetence and indecision it seems.

I guess in the end, we can always count our dollars and pounds sterling notes eh?

Modern Skepticism wrote:

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
Sixth largest economy in the world. But yeah, it’s not America so it doesn’t mean anything.

So I guess there are only two countries on the planet that matter then?

To be quite honest, yes. Though make that around 3 (US, Russia, China). Add secondary powers as you will and feel free to include the UK. Indeed, sixth largest economy and that seems the only real thing to boast about while the tides of political and social chaos perform their mad ballet in the background. Though really, the US and much of the West is the same way, but the UK is the true leader of the world in terms of political incompetence and indecision it seems.

I guess in the end, we can always count our dollars and pounds sterling notes eh?

And what puts Russia in the same catogory as the USA and China? The USSR has fallen, and Russia is a pale ghost of what it once was.

The UK isn’t on America’s level, but it’s hardly irrelevant. And while the UK government is admitadly bad, it’s no worse then any other at the moment. A lot of it is surface, the only way to tell will be in hindsight.

Irish Laren wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
Funny how the criticism always boils down to BUT IMMIGRANTS.

You did read half the thing of what i said, and i said ILLEGAL immigrants

That doesn't really change my point.

Vassenor wrote:

Irish Laren wrote:
You did read half the thing of what i said, and i said ILLEGAL immigrants

That doesn't really change my point.

Yes it does, you are acting like i was talking about all immigrants which is not true, legal immigrants and illegal immigrants are very different things

Irish Laren wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
That doesn't really change my point.

Yes it does, you are acting like i was talking about all immigrants which is not true, legal immigrants and illegal immigrants are very different things

So how about you stop trying to push words into my mouth, hm?

Also refugees are not illegal migrants.

Vassenor wrote:

Irish Laren wrote:
Yes it does, you are acting like i was talking about all immigrants which is not true, legal immigrants and illegal immigrants are very different things

So how about you stop trying to push words into my mouth, hm?

Also refugees are not illegal migrants.

Almost all refugees are illegal immigrants because they are trying to enter countries like Ireland illegally and how about you stop being ignorant and attack me because I am a Conservative and against refugees and illegal immigration

Irish Laren wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
So how about you stop trying to push words into my mouth, hm?

Also refugees are not illegal migrants.

Almost all refugees are illegal immigrants because they are trying to enter countries like Ireland illegally and how about you stop being ignorant and attack me because I am a Conservative and against refugees and illegal immigration

Do you understand how refugee status works?

Also when did I attack you for being a conservative?

Dooom35796821595 wrote:

Modern Skepticism wrote:
To be quite honest, yes. Though make that around 3 (US, Russia, China). Add secondary powers as you will and feel free to include the UK. Indeed, sixth largest economy and that seems the only real thing to boast about while the tides of political and social chaos perform their mad ballet in the background. Though really, the US and much of the West is the same way, but the UK is the true leader of the world in terms of political incompetence and indecision it seems.

I guess in the end, we can always count our dollars and pounds sterling notes eh?

And what puts Russia in the same catogory as the USA and China? The USSR has fallen, and Russia is a pale ghost of what it once was.

The UK isn’t on America’s level, but it’s hardly irrelevant. And while the UK government is admitadly bad, it’s no worse then any other at the moment. A lot of it is surface, the only way to tell will be in hindsight.

1) You’re half-correct on Russia. It’s nowhere near the great power it was in the past, but it’s political and economical interests nevertheless reach out internationally in a capacity that can keep up with China’s rising influence and America’s declining power. The USSR might be gone, but Russia’s military and industrial capacity hasn’t. It’s taking it’s phoenix-like ascension not in a blaze of glory, but slow and steadily just as the West is slowly and steadily crumbling.

2) Outside of the UK’s now non-existant control over it’s former overseas doninion states, it exercises little real international independence in terms of influence. With the whole Trump debacle proving to be a road block, it nevertheless merely goes along with the American and NATO status quo.

3) The UK government is indeed quite bad and I do agree with you it’s not worse off than any government either. That should actually say something exceedingly worrisome about the state of modern political affairs. That nevertheless is not an excuse for the sheer incompetency and tyranny of the British government. It being similar in crisis to many other governments does not at all justify it’s actions thus far. You say all will be revealed in hindsight, but it seems to me this “hindsight” event has already occurred and I think you can very properly conclude what the British government is and is not at this point. The longer this crisis goes on and the longer both the people and those in power adopt a course of indefinite inaction, a “wait and see” attitude, the worse the situation gets and the more extreme solutions will be conjured up. This, of course, is not limited to the UK but to the West in general.

Dooom35796821595 wrote:

Modern Skepticism wrote:
To be quite honest, yes. Though make that around 3 (US, Russia, China). Add secondary powers as you will and feel free to include the UK. Indeed, sixth largest economy and that seems the only real thing to boast about while the tides of political and social chaos perform their mad ballet in the background. Though really, the US and much of the West is the same way, but the UK is the true leader of the world in terms of political incompetence and indecision it seems.

I guess in the end, we can always count our dollars and pounds sterling notes eh?

And what puts Russia in the same catogory as the USA and China? The USSR has fallen, and Russia is a pale ghost of what it once was.

The largest nuclear weapons stockpile may be a reason.

Dooom35796821595 wrote:

Modern Skepticism wrote:
To be quite honest, yes. Though make that around 3 (US, Russia, China). Add secondary powers as you will and feel free to include the UK. Indeed, sixth largest economy and that seems the only real thing to boast about while the tides of political and social chaos perform their mad ballet in the background. Though really, the US and much of the West is the same way, but the UK is the true leader of the world in terms of political incompetence and indecision it seems.

I guess in the end, we can always count our dollars and pounds sterling notes eh?

And what puts Russia in the same catogory as the USA and China? The USSR has fallen, and Russia is a pale ghost of what it once was.

The UK isn’t on America’s level, but it’s hardly irrelevant. And while the UK government is admitadly bad, it’s no worse then any other at the moment. A lot of it is surface, the only way to tell will be in hindsight.

depends entirely on how you quantify "bad".

Souseiseki wrote:

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
And what puts Russia in the same catogory as the USA and China? The USSR has fallen, and Russia is a pale ghost of what it once was.

The UK isn’t on America’s level, but it’s hardly irrelevant. And while the UK government is admitadly bad, it’s no worse then any other at the moment. A lot of it is surface, the only way to tell will be in hindsight.

depends entirely on how you quantify "bad".

Waste of oxygen, short term, spin experts, blarite, partisan careerist politicians?

So yes, very very bad.

Auze wrote:

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
And what puts Russia in the same catogory as the USA and China? The USSR has fallen, and Russia is a pale ghost of what it once was.

The largest nuclear weapons stockpile may be a reason.

Not really. Every member of the UNSC 5 have enough nukes to destroy/devastate one - three of the other members, having a stockpile 30x larger is just overcompensating, and a waste of money/security risk.

Modern Skepticism wrote:

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
And what puts Russia in the same catogory as the USA and China? The USSR has fallen, and Russia is a pale ghost of what it once was.

The UK isn’t on America’s level, but it’s hardly irrelevant. And while the UK government is admitadly bad, it’s no worse then any other at the moment. A lot of it is surface, the only way to tell will be in hindsight.

1) You’re half-correct on Russia. It’s nowhere near the great power it was in the past, but it’s political and economical interests nevertheless reach out internationally in a capacity that can keep up with China’s rising influence and America’s declining power. The USSR might be gone, but Russia’s military and industrial capacity hasn’t. It’s taking it’s phoenix-like ascension not in a blaze of glory, but slow and steadily just as the West is slowly and steadily crumbling.

2) Outside of the UK’s now non-existant control over it’s former overseas doninion states, it exercises little real international independence in terms of influence. With the whole Trump debacle proving to be a road block, it nevertheless merely goes along with the American and NATO status quo.

3) The UK government is indeed quite bad and I do agree with you it’s not worse off than any government either. That should actually say something exceedingly worrisome about the state of modern political affairs. That nevertheless is not an excuse for the sheer incompetency and tyranny of the British government. It being similar in crisis to many other governments does not at all justify it’s actions thus far. You say all will be revealed in hindsight, but it seems to me this “hindsight” event has already occurred and I think you can very properly conclude what the British government is and is not at this point. The longer this crisis goes on and the longer both the people and those in power adopt a course of indefinite inaction, a “wait and see” attitude, the worse the situation gets and the more extreme solutions will be conjured up. This, of course, is not limited to the UK but to the West in general.

Russia may be willing to play dirty, but it was left behind by the USA and China a while ago.
And the UK is still a moderate player in soft power, and has enough hard power to see off any likely rivals that wouldn’t trigger article 5. So just as influentual as Russia, albeit in a more behind the scenes way. And the UK influences NATO, and doesn’t get into things it doesn’t want to.

Yes, current western politics is in a very bad place, and if they don’t find some sort of unifying factor, cause or enemy it’ll likely just deteriorate until China becomes the new global hegemony. And the wait and see is more for the general populace, since no party or person seemed to have the ability to address, let alone fix many of the problems currently faced by western civilisation. Likely the reason for the slide to the right, a dictator gets stuff done while democracy is very...squishy outside of war.

So outside is roughly the same temperature as the surface of the sun. Greater Manchester is on fire. Manchester Airport has run out of electricity/forgotten to feed the meter. The road gritters are out across the nation because apparently they're dual use when it gets hot enough the roads are melting. The railways are all doing 5mph because instead of the wrong kind of leaves it's the wrong kind of summer.

And we've run out of CO2 so we can't even have a cold beer to help deal with it all...

On the plus side, the stench of smoke has now overtaken the stench of rotting chinese food.

Fartsniffage wrote:So outside is roughly the same temperature as the surface of the sun. Greater Manchester is on fire. Manchester Airport has run out of electricity/forgotten to feed the meter. The road gritters are out across the nation because apparently they're dual use when it gets hot enough the roads are melting. The railways are all doing 5mph because instead of the wrong kind of leaves it's the wrong kind of summer.

And we've run out of CO2 so we can't even have a cold beer to help deal with it all...

On the plus side, the stench of smoke has now overtaken the stench of rotting chinese food.

Sounds like the Summer of Discontent over in Britain.

Freezic Vast wrote:

Fartsniffage wrote:So outside is roughly the same temperature as the surface of the sun. Greater Manchester is on fire. Manchester Airport has run out of electricity/forgotten to feed the meter. The road gritters are out across the nation because apparently they're dual use when it gets hot enough the roads are melting. The railways are all doing 5mph because instead of the wrong kind of leaves it's the wrong kind of summer.

And we've run out of CO2 so we can't even have a cold beer to help deal with it all...

On the plus side, the stench of smoke has now overtaken the stench of rotting chinese food.

Sounds like the Summer of Discontent over in Britain.

More like summer of can’t be bothered, it’s too hot.

Dooom35796821595 wrote:

Freezic Vast wrote:Sounds like the Summer of Discontent over in Britain.

More like summer of can’t be bothered, it’s too hot.

So a typical British summer then.

Trumptonium1 wrote:

Vassenor wrote:
Mostly because we're demonstrating what an utterly stupid idea it is.

I can't hear you over all these extra pounds coming into the UK economy, speak louder

Economic impacts don't time travel? What a surprise!

Vassenor wrote:

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
More like summer of can’t be bothered, it’s too hot.

So a typical British summer then.

Pretty much. Although it has gotten worse as of late.

Fartsniffage wrote:So outside is roughly the same temperature as the surface of the sun. Greater Manchester is on fire. Manchester Airport has run out of electricity/forgotten to feed the meter. The road gritters are out across the nation because apparently they're dual use when it gets hot enough the roads are melting. The railways are all doing 5mph because instead of the wrong kind of leaves it's the wrong kind of summer.

And we've run out of CO2 so we can't even have a cold beer to help deal with it all...

On the plus side, the stench of smoke has now overtaken the stench of rotting chinese food.

The idea of an airport running on an electricity meter tickled me for some reason.

Yeah, shit's pretty hot.

Fartsniffage wrote:Manchester Airport has run out of electricity/forgotten to feed the meter.

Better not have, I need to work there tomorrow.

Alvecia wrote:

Fartsniffage wrote:Manchester Airport has run out of electricity/forgotten to feed the meter.

Better not have, I need to work there tomorrow.

Terminal 2 for about 2 hours. But someone found 50p so it's back now.

Fartsniffage wrote:

Alvecia wrote:Better not have, I need to work there tomorrow.

Terminal 2 for about 2 hours. But someone found 50p so it's back now.

Ah, lovely.

Alvecia wrote:

Fartsniffage wrote:Manchester Airport has run out of electricity/forgotten to feed the meter.

Better not have, I need to work there tomorrow.

Yup, it is true.

In other news, I am still having a good laugh at the "fuck business" Boris Johnson quote...