UK Politics Thread VIII—Can't Let EU Go

[Alvecia]

Elected officials or not, they're still a terrorist organisation. We should kill terrorists, not negotiate with them.

Everyone is a terrorist to someone. Terrorism is partially, though not entirely, in the eye of the beholder. In many countries, human rights defenders are considered terrorists. It's more a national label than an objective standard.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter

[Eglaecia]

Elected officials or not, they're still a terrorist organisation. We should kill terrorists, not negotiate with them.

Everyone is a terrorist to someone. Terrorism is partially, though not entirely, in the eye of the beholder. In many countries, human rights defenders are considered terrorists. It's more a national label than an objective standard.

Using violence against civilians for political purposes is objectively terrorism, therefore Hamas are terrorists.

Elected officials or not, they're still a terrorist organisation. We should kill terrorists, not negotiate with them.

Sovereign government or no, Israel is a state committing war crimes and crimes against humanity. Should we kill Likud members, not negotiate with them?

Illegal settlements and illegal occupation are part of the problem too. But Corbyn has acknowledged this while still calling Israel a friend. Does that make him anti-muslim?

The Israeli government has never sanctioned war crimes once but okay. When did Corbyn call Israel a friend?

[Trumptonium1]

Everyone is a terrorist to someone. Terrorism is partially, though not entirely, in the eye of the beholder. In many countries, human rights defenders are considered terrorists. It's more a national label than an objective standard.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter

What a shame Corbyn's freedom fighters are people that UK governments of various colours and UK society as an overwhelming majority consider to be terrorists deserving of nothing less than a bit of firebombing.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Everyone is a terrorist to someone. Terrorism is partially, though not entirely, in the eye of the beholder. In many countries, human rights defenders are considered terrorists. It's more a national label than an objective standard.

Using violence against civilians for political purposes is objectively terrorism, therefore Hamas are terrorists.

Sovereign government or no, Israel is a state committing war crimes and crimes against humanity. Should we kill Likud members, not negotiate with them?

Illegal settlements and illegal occupation are part of the problem too. But Corbyn has acknowledged this while still calling Israel a friend. Does that make him anti-muslim?

The Israeli government has never sanctioned war crimes once but okay. When did Corbyn call Israel a friend?

The Israeli government literally bombs schools and hospitals.

[Imperializt Russia]

Everyone is a terrorist to someone. Terrorism is partially, though not entirely, in the eye of the beholder. In many countries, human rights defenders are considered terrorists. It's more a national label than an objective standard.

Using violence against civilians for political purposes is objectively terrorism, therefore Hamas are terrorists.

And ours. In living memory.

Glass houses, etc.

[Trumptonium1]

Using violence against civilians for political purposes is objectively terrorism, therefore Hamas are terrorists.


The Israeli government has never sanctioned war crimes once but okay. When did Corbyn call Israel a friend?

The Israeli government literally bombs schools and hospitals.

Because that's where Corbyn's friends hide.

[Vassenor]

Everyone is a terrorist to someone. Terrorism is partially, though not entirely, in the eye of the beholder. In many countries, human rights defenders are considered terrorists. It's more a national label than an objective standard.

Using violence against civilians for political purposes is objectively terrorism, therefore Hamas are terrorists.

Sovereign government or no, Israel is a state committing war crimes and crimes against humanity. Should we kill Likud members, not negotiate with them?

Illegal settlements and illegal occupation are part of the problem too. But Corbyn has acknowledged this while still calling Israel a friend. Does that make him anti-muslim?

The Israeli government has never sanctioned war crimes once but okay. When did Corbyn call Israel a friend?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Fact_Finding_Mission_on_the_Gaza_Conflict#Accusations_against_Israel

Yeah, about that.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

The Israeli government literally bombs schools and hospitals.

Because that's where Corbyn's friends hide.

Of course, Corbyn has always been a friend of the palestinean people. Some of them are in school.

[Ostroeuropa]

Everyone is a terrorist to someone. Terrorism is partially, though not entirely, in the eye of the beholder. In many countries, human rights defenders are considered terrorists. It's more a national label than an objective standard.

Using violence against civilians for political purposes is objectively terrorism, therefore Hamas are terrorists.

Sovereign government or no, Israel is a state committing war crimes and crimes against humanity. Should we kill Likud members, not negotiate with them?

Illegal settlements and illegal occupation are part of the problem too. But Corbyn has acknowledged this while still calling Israel a friend. Does that make him anti-muslim?

The Israeli government has never sanctioned war crimes once but okay. When did Corbyn call Israel a friend?

Here is a war crime, sorry to break it to you:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22310544

"Okay, we'll stop committing war crimes.".

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... wish-event

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Everyone is a terrorist to someone. Terrorism is partially, though not entirely, in the eye of the beholder. In many countries, human rights defenders are considered terrorists. It's more a national label than an objective standard.

Using violence against civilians for political purposes is objectively terrorism, therefore Hamas are terrorists.

Sovereign government or no, Israel is a state committing war crimes and crimes against humanity. Should we kill Likud members, not negotiate with them?

Illegal settlements and illegal occupation are part of the problem too. But Corbyn has acknowledged this while still calling Israel a friend. Does that make him anti-muslim?

The Israeli government has never sanctioned war crimes once but okay. When did Corbyn call Israel a friend?

Israeli governance has been described as 'apartheid', which is a crime against humanity, and Israeli soldiers have shot civilians without repercussion, which is a war crime.

The UK has bombed civilians in Kosovo, Syria and Libya. Attacking civilians in war time makes you a war criminal, but not a terrorist per se. Are you a terrorist if you attack military installations? Or government facilities?

[Thermodolia]

Using violence against civilians for political purposes is objectively terrorism, therefore Hamas are terrorists.


The Israeli government has never sanctioned war crimes once but okay. When did Corbyn call Israel a friend?

Here is a war crime, sorry to break it to you:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22310544

"Okay, we'll stop committing war crimes.".

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... wish-event

Technically using white phosphorus isn’t a war crime. Or at least it’s not one the big powers care about

[Eglaecia]

Because that's where Corbyn's friends hide.

Of course, Corbyn has always been a friend of the palestinean people. Some of them are in school.

You're just being wilfully ignorant. It's well documented that Hamas use schools and hospitals as launching points for their horrific attacks and for storing weapons and equipment. Israel is defending her own citizens and unfortunately that means Palestinians citizens die in the process. All Hamas' fault.

[Trumptonium1]

Because that's where Corbyn's friends hide.

Of course, Corbyn has always been a friend of the palestinean people. Some of them are in school.

His friendship group is larger than that I'm afraid, it appears he hugs school children in the morning and high fives terrorists at night.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Of course, Corbyn has always been a friend of the palestinean people. Some of them are in school.

You're just being wilfully ignorant. It's well documented that Hamas use schools and hospitals as launching points for their horrific attacks and for storing weapons and equipment. Israel is defending her own citizens and unfortunately that means Palestinians citizens die in the process. All Hamas' fault.

No, Hamas is defending the people it was elected to govern against a blockade. All Israel's fault.

[The New California Republic]

Of course, Corbyn has always been a friend of the palestinean people. Some of them are in school.

You're just being wilfully ignorant.

And you are being wilfully ignorant of Israel's war crimes.

The Israeli government has never sanctioned war crimes once but okay.

[Ostroeuropa]

Of course, Corbyn has always been a friend of the palestinean people. Some of them are in school.

You're just being wilfully ignorant. It's well documented that Hamas use schools and hospitals as launching points for their horrific attacks and for storing weapons and equipment. Israel is defending her own citizens and unfortunately that means Palestinians citizens die in the process. All Hamas' fault.

Israel is occupying Palestinian territory and keeping them in a state of perpetual war. Illegal settlers being called "civilians" is a bit of a stretch tbh.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Here is a war crime, sorry to break it to you:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22310544

"Okay, we'll stop committing war crimes.".

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... wish-event

Technically using white phosphorus isn’t a war crime. Or at least it’s not one the big powers care about

White phosphorous creates unnecessary suffering in soldiers and does not discriminate between combatants and non-combatants, making its use a war crime. Big powers committing war crimes doesn't make something any less a war crime.

[Eglaecia]

You're just being wilfully ignorant. It's well documented that Hamas use schools and hospitals as launching points for their horrific attacks and for storing weapons and equipment. Israel is defending her own citizens and unfortunately that means Palestinians citizens die in the process. All Hamas' fault.

No, Hamas is defending the people it was elected to govern against a blockade. All Israel's fault.

Ah yes defending them by... purposefully making them targets.

[Ifreann]

Corbyn criticised Israel.

Don't be daft, Vassenor; it's far more than that.

I don't believe that Corbyn is himself deliberately anti-Semitic, but he's shown a tendency to be blind towards anti-Semitism, and there are legitimate concerns that some Corbyn supporters can't distinguish the line between 'strong criticism of Israeli policies towards the Palestinians' and 'negative stereotyping of Jewish people drawing on anti-Semitic tropes'.

For example, anyone who can't see a problem with this mural, the context of (and the artist's own statements about) the mural, or why it might be problematic that Corbyn has previously openly defended this mural, might need to rethink their approach to the issue:

It's more than just one mural, of course; Corbyn has also shown a worrying tendency to share a stage (physical and metaphorical) with individuals who aren't just anti-Israeli, but are openly anti-Semitic; and he clearly struggles to see why this is a problem, just as he struggles to bring himself to condemn a murderous dictator in northern South America when that dictator and his predecessor have previously been the subject of warm words from Corbyn.

Edit:
For the record, I also acknowledge that some of the criticism of certain sections of the Labour Party for anti-Semitism has been politically motivated, self-interested, and hypocritical. But that doesn't mean it's necessarily wrong.

Even if it's not, the basis of the accusations against Labour is still the party leader and his position on Israel. That Corbyn isn't especially good at responding those accusations means they are seized upon for their utility. Any truth to them is incidental.

---

Well, antisemitic dickbags or no, Hamas are the elected officials forming (what passes for) a government in Palestine, and Palestine is one of the two states of the two-state solution that successive Israeli administrations have spent decades undermining.

Not bringing the Palestinian government to the table of talks in a UN-backed two-state solution would be pointless, no?

Elected officials or not, they're still a terrorist organisation. We should kill terrorists, not negotiate with them.

[picture of the Queen shaking hands with Martin McGuinness]

---

Everyone is a terrorist to someone. Terrorism is partially, though not entirely, in the eye of the beholder. In many countries, human rights defenders are considered terrorists. It's more a national label than an objective standard.

Using violence against civilians for political purposes is objectively terrorism, therefore Hamas are terrorists.

[picture of the police attacking protesters]

[Thermodolia]

Using violence against civilians for political purposes is objectively terrorism, therefore Hamas are terrorists.


The Israeli government has never sanctioned war crimes once but okay. When did Corbyn call Israel a friend?

Israeli governance has been described as 'apartheid', which is a crime against humanity, and Israeli soldiers have shot civilians without repercussion, which is a war crime.

The Israeli government is far from the level of apartheid and to claim that it rises to that level is an insult to those who suffered under apartheid.

Is there systemic racism? Most definitely. However it’s not on the level of separate living, drinking, dining, and other facilities. And Arabs in Israel get to vote, run for office, and hold judicial seats. Something a native African could never have done under apartheid.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

No, Hamas is defending the people it was elected to govern against a blockade. All Israel's fault.

Ah yes defending them by... purposefully making them targets.

Very few people on here actively defend hamas, and I'm not one of them. However, I believe that a government has a duty to its people, and that is that if they are continually blockaded by an aggressive and more powerful state, desperate measures must sometimes be taken.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Israeli governance has been described as 'apartheid', which is a crime against humanity, and Israeli soldiers have shot civilians without repercussion, which is a war crime.

The Israeli government is far from the level of apartheid and to claim that it rises to that level is an insult to those who suffered under apartheid.

Is there systemic racism? Most definitely. However it’s not on the level of separate living, drinking, dining, and other facilities. And Arabs in Israel get to vote, run for office, and hold judicial seats. Something a native African could never have done under apartheid.

The system in the occupation of the west bank, however, does qualify as such.

[Thermodolia]

Technically using white phosphorus isn’t a war crime. Or at least it’s not one the big powers care about

White phosphorous creates unnecessary suffering in soldiers and does not discriminate between combatants and non-combatants, making its use a war crime. Big powers committing war crimes doesn't make something any less a war crime.

Actually it’s not. It’s war crime to use it against civilians but not against soldiers. It’s not banned by any international law, mostly thanks in part to the US.

[Trumptonium1]

Anti-Israel opinions are a minority of the public anyway. They are mostly held by the far-left (around 80%) and by Muslims. The rest of the public doesn't understand the obsession.

I'm not even pro-Israel.

Although to be fair it seems positions on Israel directly correlate with opinion on Muslims/Islam. Over half of Conservative voters view Islam as a threat to the British way of life, as opposed to just 20% of Labour voters.

Assuming all far-left vote for Labour, it makes sense that ComRes found "Nearly 80% of those on the far-left backed at least one anti-Israel statement (as against 56% of all Britons), with 23% backing six to nine (in contrast to 9% more generally)."

In other words, one's opinion on Muslims or Islam is basically a direct indication of whether one is anti-Israel or not -- and vice versa. With little leeway for people of both or neither options.

[Eglaecia]

Elected officials or not, they're still a terrorist organisation. We should kill terrorists, not negotiate with them.

[picture of the Queen shaking hands with Martin McGuinness]

a) the Provisional IRA never sanctioned a single terrorist attack once, all terrorist attacks perpetrated by the PIRA were by lone wolves acting outside of their orders.
b) Shaking hands with the queen is worse than committing terrorist attacks anyway.

Using violence against civilians for political purposes is objectively terrorism, therefore Hamas are terrorists.

[picture of the police attacking protesters]

That happens all over the world. The police are nonpartisan as well so it isn't a political motive.