UK Politics Thread VIII—Can't Let EU Go

[Ifreann]

Then, and only then, may the the Euro lot be tempted into coming up with a compromise so they can get their grubby little hands on some shekels.

Lovely antisemitism. You're not even trying to hide it.

EU? More like E-JEW.

[Platypus Bureaucracy]

This seems to have turned into a remainers love in. We had a vote - the result was out.

Article 50 was instigated- May did a botch job on the negotions(admittedly)- but regardless of that, we should still withdraw on the set date.

Then, and only then, may the the Euro lot be tempted into coming up with a compromise so they can get their grubby little hands on some shekels.

Bloody hell. Ever considered joining the Labour Party?

[The Huskar Social Union]

This seems to have turned into a remainers love in. We had a vote - the result was out.

Article 50 was instigated- May did a botch job on the negotions(admittedly)- but regardless of that, we should still withdraw on the set date.

Then, and only then, may the the Euro lot be tempted into coming up with a compromise so they can get their grubby little hands on some shekels.

Bloody hell. Ever considered joining the Labour Party?

Got em.

[Dumb Ideologies]

This seems to have turned into a remainers love in. We had a vote - the result was out.

Article 50 was instigated- May did a botch job on the negotions(admittedly)- but regardless of that, we should still withdraw on the set date.

Then, and only then, may the the Euro lot be tempted into coming up with a compromise so they can get their grubby little hands on some shekels.

We already have compromised. We made a deal. The problem is that Brexiteers can't agree on anything.

The most embarrassing thing is that everyone's given in to wishful thinking so much that we're pretending sorting this would be a "deal" like it's the final answer, when really it's the basis to just keep talking.

It's like a hostage-taker fooling themselves into thinking that if they get the negotiator to hold off the armed police storming the building for a bit they'll automatically get amnesty and a helicopter ride to the Carribbean.

[Ifreann]

We already have compromised. We made a deal. The problem is that Brexiteers can't agree on anything.

The most embarrassing thing is that everyone's given in to wishful thinking so much that we're pretending sorting this would be a "deal" like it's the final answer, when really it's the basis to just keep talking.

It's like a hostage-taker fooling themselves into thinking that if they get the negotiator to hold off the armed police storming the building for a bit they'll automatically get amnesty and a helicopter ride to the Carribbean.

Two years and May hasn't even sorted out the basis for beginning negotiations on Britain's post-Brexit relationship with the EU.

[Cupofchar]

Lovely antisemitism. You're not even trying to hide it.

EU? More like E-JEW.

Oh! anti-semitic, eh? You're presuming my use of 'shekels' is antisemitic- shekel is just a slang term for money. The grubby hands belong to the Eurocrats, who to the best of my knowledge aren't of the jewish persuasion, who started the negotiations with - 'we
want to sort our reparations out before we jaw jaw about owt else'.

Now you will go on about the 'jewish persuasion' - They're actually most likely to be housed in Frankfurt or Brussels and interested in shifting the money centre from London to elsewhere.

I'll leave you to dribble and mumble in your delusions.

[Dumb Ideologies]

The most embarrassing thing is that everyone's given in to wishful thinking so much that we're pretending sorting this would be a "deal" like it's the final answer, when really it's the basis to just keep talking.

It's like a hostage-taker fooling themselves into thinking that if they get the negotiator to hold off the armed police storming the building for a bit they'll automatically get amnesty and a helicopter ride to the Carribbean.

Two years and May hasn't even sorted out the basis for beginning negotiations on Britain's post-Brexit relationship with the EU.

The more I'm thinking, the more the sinking feeling is sinking in again. Call the German coastguard.

[Vassenor]

EU? More like E-JEW.

Oh! anti-semitic, eh? You're presuming my use of 'shekels' is antisemitic- shekel is just a slang term for money. The grubby hands belong to the Eurocrats, who to the best of my knowledge aren't of the jewish persuasion, who started the negotiations with - 'we
want to sort our reparations out before we jaw jaw about owt else'.

Now you will go on about the 'jewish persuasion' - They're actually most likely to be housed in Frankfurt or Brussels and interested in shifting the money centre from London to elsewhere.

I'll leave you to dribble and mumble in your delusions.

Says the person operating under the delusion that the EU has any reason to come back to the table after we've gone.

[Ifreann]

Two years and May hasn't even sorted out the basis for beginning negotiations on Britain's post-Brexit relationship with the EU.

The more I'm thinking, the more the sinking feeling is sinking in again. Call the German coastguard.

The solution is simple, DI. Stop thinking.

[Ifreann]

EU? More like E-JEW.

Oh! anti-semitic, eh? You're presuming my use of 'shekels' is antisemitic- shekel is just a slang term for money. The grubby hands belong to the Eurocrats, who to the best of my knowledge aren't of the jewish persuasion, who started the negotiations with - 'we
want to sort our reparations out before we jaw jaw about owt else'.

Now you will go on about the 'jewish persuasion' - They're actually most likely to be housed in Frankfurt or Brussels and interested in shifting the money centre from London to elsewhere.

I'll leave you to dribble and mumble in your delusions.

Calm down, citizen, it's just a banter.

[Dumb Ideologies]

The more I'm thinking, the more the sinking feeling is sinking in again. Call the German coastguard.

The solution is simple, DI. Stop thinking.

Are you sure? Last time I did that I assumed that the Tories must have some sort of plan for if Leave won the referendum, otherwise how could they possibly hold one?

[The Blaatschapen]

This seems to have turned into a remainers love in. We had a vote - the result was out.

Article 50 was instigated- May did a botch job on the negotions(admittedly)- but regardless of that, we should still withdraw on the set date.

Then, and only then, may the the Euro lot be tempted into coming up with a compromise so they can get their grubby little hands on some shekels.

Or more likely they just wash their hands of the whole matter and leave us to the wolves.

I won't visit the UK for a while, that's for sure.

[The Blaatschapen]

The solution is simple, DI. Stop thinking.

Are you sure? Last time I did that I assumed that the Tories must have some sort of plan for if Leave won the referendum, otherwise how could they possibly hold one?

They had to hold one, because they promised one.

And they promised it, in order to to sweet talk UKIP voters. And then hope that it would be a hung parliament again, in the hopes that the Lib Dems or so, would then scratch said referendum out in a coalition talk.

But then the Tories won the election, and had to stick with their promise. Funny how the electoral success now turns out to be the demise.

[Salandriagado]

Or, you know implement a free, preferential vote.
Idea that parliament can't agree on anything is bull while May controls agenda of the parliament and refuses to put alternatives to actual vote.

But we had a vote, you lost it. We don't have time to give you a second go now.

Step 1: Run the clock out until the last minute.
Step 2: Whine that there's no time.

[Ifreann]

The solution is simple, DI. Stop thinking.

Are you sure? Last time I did that I assumed that the Tories must have some sort of plan for if Leave won the referendum, otherwise how could they possibly hold one?

Oh, it won't actually help anything, but it'll probably be more pleasant to focus on thoughts of fuzzy animals and chocolate as Britain sinks back under the sea.

[Ifreann]

But we had a vote, you lost it. We don't have time to give you a second go now.

Step 1: Run the clock out until the last minute.
Step 2: Whine that there's no time.

Get offered more time by the EU.

Beg Poland to vote against giving you more time.

Complain some more that there wasn't enough time.

[The Blaatschapen]

Are you sure? Last time I did that I assumed that the Tories must have some sort of plan for if Leave won the referendum, otherwise how could they possibly hold one?

Oh, it won't actually help anything, but it'll probably be more pleasant to focus on thoughts of fuzzy animals and chocolate as Britain sinks back under the sea.

That better not be Belgian chocolate.

Or Texel sheep. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texel_sheep

[Dumb Ideologies]

Are you sure? Last time I did that I assumed that the Tories must have some sort of plan for if Leave won the referendum, otherwise how could they possibly hold one?

Oh, it won't actually help anything, but it'll probably be more pleasant to focus on thoughts of fuzzy animals and chocolate as Britain sinks back under the sea.

You're the guy who ran the mindfulness course at my workplace, aren't you.

[Ifreann]

Oh, it won't actually help anything, but it'll probably be more pleasant to focus on thoughts of fuzzy animals and chocolate as Britain sinks back under the sea.

You're the guy who ran the mindfulness course at my workplace, aren't you.

[Caracasus]

Are you sure? Last time I did that I assumed that the Tories must have some sort of plan for if Leave won the referendum, otherwise how could they possibly hold one?

They had to hold one, because they promised one.

And they promised it, in order to to sweet talk UKIP voters. And then hope that it would be a hung parliament again, in the hopes that the Lib Dems or so, would then scratch said referendum out in a coalition talk.

But then the Tories won the election, and had to stick with their promise. Funny how the electoral success now turns out to be the demise.

Just to add to this, Cameron said he'd lead the country through Brexit. Then on the day of the results, that very morning he turned up looking like he was gonna be sick, cry or both and resigned.

[Juristonia]

The EU is not nearly as united as you make it out to be. Things change.
Different factions in the EU disagree you know. The next EU parliamentary elections are going to likely result in a massive change.

And also this deal will not be that bad.
It will finally bring some stability.
It is the best option right now.

Three options like results in none actually getting 50%.
Plus throw in Russian trolls, other irregularities, deceptive tactics from both sides, the referendum being non binding... yeah.
Not going to work.

Tell me, also has a majority of Parliament agreed on your ballot format?

The EU is a lot less divided than the UK lot when it comes to Brexit, mate.
No matter how much you think wishing something really hard will make it true, as it stands, there are no other plans, the EU has ruled out other plans and there is not one single indication (or reason) that that's going to change anytime soon.
You're risking several countries on literally nothing more than the hope that some people, at some point, might possibly change their mind, even though it isn't in their own interest to do so at all.

Yeah, this deal will not be that bad, apart from all the things about it that are.
That's why even May's own party can't agree on it. Because it's just that fantastic a deal.
It is the best option if the only other option is no deal.
Luckily, there are two more options. No Brexit, or a second ref.
Both better than what you're pushing.

I like how you're perfectly fine hanging the fate of the entire UK on the empty hope that at some point enough EU countries might, for some reason, change their mind about giving the UK some kind of magical deal, despite having repeatedly said they won't, but find it completely unfathomable to think a second ref might actually have a clear outcome.
Apparently your magical wishing fairies only conveniently agree to work as long as they're doing what you want them to do.

..Considering parliament hasn't agreed to a second referendum, it would be a bit odd if they agreed on the ballot format for one, wouldn't it?

[Novus America]

The EU is not nearly as united as you make it out to be. Things change.
Different factions in the EU disagree you know. The next EU parliamentary elections are going to likely result in a massive change.

And also this deal will not be that bad.
It will finally bring some stability.
It is the best option right now.

Three options like results in none actually getting 50%.
Plus throw in Russian trolls, other irregularities, deceptive tactics from both sides, the referendum being non binding... yeah.
Not going to work.

Tell me, also has a majority of Parliament agreed on your ballot format?

The EU is a lot less divided than the UK lot when it comes to Brexit, mate.
No matter how much you think wishing something really hard will make it true, as it stands, there are no other plans, the EU has ruled out other plans and there is not one single indication (or reason) that that's going to change anytime soon.
You're risking several countries on literally nothing more than the hope that some people, at some point, might possibly change their mind, even though it isn't in their own interest to do so at all.

Yeah, this deal will not be that bad, apart from all the things about it that are.
That's why even May's own party can't agree on it. Because it's just that fantastic a deal.
It is the best option if the only other option is no deal.
Luckily, there are two more options. No Brexit, or a second ref.
Both better than what you're pushing.

I like how you're perfectly fine hanging the fate of the entire UK on the empty hope that at some point enough EU countries might, for some reason, change their mind about giving the UK some kind of magical deal, despite having repeatedly said they won't, but find it completely unfathomable to think a second ref might actually have a clear outcome.
Apparently your magical wishing fairies only conveniently agree to work as long as they're doing what you want them to do.

..Considering parliament hasn't agreed to a second referendum, it would be a bit odd if they agreed on the ballot format for one, wouldn't it?

Because the EU never changes? And even if it does not it is not the end if the world.

Again I explained why a second referendum will probably not work. And you admit Parliament will not agree on it. So...
Not going to happen.

There is a chance I suppose the referendum (which is not going to happen) could theoretically go smoothly with no irregularities, not disputes over the fairness of the outcome, no acrimony and produce a single decisive outcome that a majority of parliament agrees to implement.

But rolling a six on dice 1,000 times in a row is more likely.
It is a desperate gamble almost certain to make things worse.

[Juristonia]

Because the EU never changes? And even if it does not it is not the end if the world.

Again I explained why a second referendum will probably not work. And you admit Parliament will not agree on it. So...
Not going to happen.

There is a chance I suppose the referendum (which is not going to happen) could theoretically go smoothly with no irregularities, not disputes over the fairness of the outcome, no acrimony and produce a single decisive outcome that a majority of parliament agrees to implement.

But rolling a six on dice 1,000 times in a row is more likely.
It is a desperate gamble almost certain to make things worse.

You're right. It's not the end of the world. The rest of the world will be perfectly fine.
The UK, on the other hand, will most likely be fucked economically for a very long time.

You didn't explain anything. You just claimed that it wouldn't and then assumed that was true, because reasons.
Again and again you keep misinterpreting what you want as what will happen. Those two things are not the same. I promise.

Yet rolling the dice on the EU throwing you a bone somewhere down the line, despite not having any reason to and already repeatedly stating that they won't isn't a desperate gamble.

Right.

That makes sense.

I'm going to stop replying to you now.
You're just repeating the same "It will because it will" arguments over and over again.

[Novus America]

Because the EU never changes? And even if it does not it is not the end if the world.

Again I explained why a second referendum will probably not work. And you admit Parliament will not agree on it. So...
Not going to happen.

There is a chance I suppose the referendum (which is not going to happen) could theoretically go smoothly with no irregularities, not disputes over the fairness of the outcome, no acrimony and produce a single decisive outcome that a majority of parliament agrees to implement.

But rolling a six on dice 1,000 times in a row is more likely.
It is a desperate gamble almost certain to make things worse.

You're right. It's not the end of the world. The rest of the world will be perfectly fine.
The UK, on the other hand, will most likely be fucked economically for a very long time.

You didn't explain anything. You just claimed that it wouldn't and then assumed that was true, because reasons.
Again and again you keep misinterpreting what you want as what will happen. Those two things are not the same. I promise.

Yet rolling the dice on the EU throwing you a bone somewhere down the line, despite not having any reason to and already repeatedly stating that they won't isn't a desperate gamble.

Right.

That makes sense.

I'm going to stop replying to you now.
You're just repeating the same "It will because it will" arguments over and over again.

I explained why, in detail. The referendum will be non binding, likely not produce one clear result, will be plagued by irregularities and foreign trolls, etc.
Cause more hatred and acrimony as the campaigning will be brutal and ruthless.
It will not happen anyways because Parliament will not agree on it anyways.

Plus the longer delay and more uncertainty will be horrible for the economy.

Also most sources agree the deal has problems but will not be catastrophic.
It will not crash the economy.

So yeah, definitely a better bet. Not perfect obviously.
But the best option you have.

Also while the EU has said it will not renegotiate the whole agreement it will consider “addendum”.

[Great Nepal]

Or, you know implement a free, preferential vote.
Idea that parliament can't agree on anything is bull while May controls agenda of the parliament and refuses to put alternatives to actual vote.

If Parliament actually agrees they can override May, or remove her entirely.
She does not have dictatorial powers. If Parliament can agree on a better idea they are welcome to do so.

To do that parliament not only needs to agree on Brexit policy but also needs to agree to have another general election, or on another person to be PM.

There is probably enough support to have second referendum, maybe even on Corbyn’s EEA + EFTA. What there isn’t support for is replaying May with anyone else.