UK Politics Thread VIII—Can't Let EU Go

[Ifreann]

Only the UK can choose for there not to be a hard border.

Either way, Ireland probably is not going to turn on the E.U. due to the support for it among the public. Trumptonium1 is still wrong, and we know that Ireland isn't going to leave the single market any time soon.

Even it we triggered Article 50 in the morning, which we obviously won't do, but even if we did we'd still have to have a hard border for just under two years unless May can actually lead her government.

[Lamoni]

And if you engage with fascists then you're just giving them an opportunity to win more people over to their genocidal cause. You can appeal politically to people who aren't fascists without engaging with fascists. You can explain why fascists are wrong without sharing a stage with them.


"AMAZING Hitler DESTROYS liberal college students with FACTS and LOGIC"


Or you respond with the awesome and terrible power of antifa super soldiers.

---

Fascism is super-effective against liberalism. You can tell because your answer to people who want to put you in a camp and work you to death is to take their proposal to the free marketplace of ideas.

You do not necessarily have to share a stage with them of course. But you have to point out the flaws in their ideas, not pretend they do not exist.

And ANTIFA is beyond counterproductive. You realized it started in Weimar Germany, how did that work out? ANTIFA wants to tear down the democratic state, not protect it.
ANTIFA gave the Nazis a massive boost.
They weakened the Weimer Government and scared the middle class right into the arms of the Nazis.
Not that ANTIFA are against labor camps for enemies either.

They both must be defeated.

The best argument the Alt Right has is the Ogre’s choice.
They will argue the decision is between them and the lunatic left.
ANTIFA only makes their argument stronger.

Besides the way to defeat the lunatic fringe is not by supporting the other lunatic fringe!

ANTIFA is not the subject of this thread. Brexit and the EU are. Move along.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

You do not necessarily have to share a stage with them of course. But you have to point out the flaws in their ideas, not pretend they do not exist.

And ANTIFA is beyond counterproductive. You realized it started in Weimar Germany, how did that work out? ANTIFA wants to tear down the democratic state, not protect it.
ANTIFA gave the Nazis a massive boost.
They weakened the Weimer Government and scared the middle class right into the arms of the Nazis.
Not that ANTIFA are against labor camps for enemies either.

They both must be defeated.

The best argument the Alt Right has is the Ogre’s choice.
They will argue the decision is between them and the lunatic left.
ANTIFA only makes their argument stronger.

Besides the way to defeat the lunatic fringe is not by supporting the other lunatic fringe!

ANTIFA is not the subject of this thread. Brexit and the EU are. Move along.

Uhm...no?
The subject of this thread is everything relating to UK politics. It's the place where we post news stories, whine and bitch about them, then discuss Brexit, then post another news story and repeat cycle. Not just a Brexit thread.

[Dresderstan]

ANTIFA is not the subject of this thread. Brexit and the EU are. Move along.

Uhm...no?
The subject of this thread is everything relating to UK politics. It's the place where we post news stories, whine and bitch about them, then discuss Brexit, then post another news story and repeat cycle. Not just a Brexit thread.

The point of the ominous loom is that ANTIFA is not the subject.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Uhm...no?
The subject of this thread is everything relating to UK politics. It's the place where we post news stories, whine and bitch about them, then discuss Brexit, then post another news story and repeat cycle. Not just a Brexit thread.

The point of the ominous loom is that ANTIFA is not the subject.

But if Antifa becomes politically relevant in the UK, it is.

[Dresderstan]

The point of the ominous loom is that ANTIFA is not the subject.

But if Antifa becomes politically relevant in the UK, it is.

But they're not right now, therefore it's irrelevant.

[Trumptonium1]

Irish people suddenly realising EU throwing them under the bus.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/edit ... 18812.html

"In a no-deal scenario, Ireland would have to choose between setting up a physical Border with Northern Ireland and de facto leaving the single market. If there is no physical Border, the customs checks would have to take place on all goods coming [to the EU] from Ireland"

I still don't think that means that Ireland is going to turn on the EU. They very well might choose that hard border.

Who said they will, what?

This is Ireland's largest newspaper with an article from their chief editor who suddenly realised the EU has thrown them under the bus.

The UK is not going to be building a hard border in Northern Ireland. That has been confirmed by the UK Government.

That leaves RoI two options -- either southern Ireland builds a hard border themselves, thus making themselves a laughing stock over all their threats of previous two years, or, southern Ireland follows the new "shocking" orders from EU officials that not doing so would result in the EU kicking the Republic of Ireland out of the EU customs union/single market and introducing tariffs on Irish goods.

It's a very funny story of picking a side of one of your bullies and suddenly realising that neither side has your interests at heart.

If, as you say, southern Ireland won't shaft the EU, then it will have to build a border. And thus break all of their promises. Also break the Good Friday Agreement. Also separate the island. And then cherry on top they will not be taken seriously when they have a ""threat"" to make.

Or, should RoI prioritise peace in Ireland and still want to be taken seriously beyond the EU Commission floors, then it will have to live with no border and accept being kicked out of EU institutions.

It's quite hilarious actually.

---

This is the funniest Brexit-related piece I have read in a while.

We had hoped Poland's foreign minister was a different drummer marching in another direction when he broke ranks with the EU band, suggesting last month that Ireland has "treated the UK harshly" over the backstop.

It now looks as though it could be Ireland that is out of step, not Poland's Jacek Czaputowicz.

Had our confidence in our position not been fortified by cast-iron commitments from top brass in Brussels? Perhaps.

But across the water, Theresa May and the Ultras had waged a €39bn bet (the price of the EU divorce bill) on Ireland being forced into diluting the backstop once the EU was confronted with the prospect of losing the pot. And with just six weeks to go to Brexit, it looks as if the gamble could pay off.

A forthright and frankly chilling interview with someone described as a "senior EU diplomat" yesterday came like a glass of cold water in the face.

The un-named source said: "In a no-deal scenario, Ireland would have to choose between setting up a physical Border with Northern Ireland and de facto leaving the single market. If there is no physical Border, the customs checks would have to take place on all goods coming from Ireland."

So we bring in a hard Border or leave the single market. It's really that stark. A blunt "our way or the highway" ultimatum, veiled in the velvet language only anonymity allows. No matter how much Iveagh House may try to calm nerves these quotes cannot be dismissed.

Honestly the greatest geopolitical Catch-22 in at least the last 20 years. Ireland separates Ireland or leaves the EU together with Britain on WTO. Republic of Ireland has been royally fucked by both sides and her only option is to choose which hole.

After all this squealing by a Charlie Chaplin-like caricature in Dublin, I cannot help but rejoice at this gigantic Schadenfreude. Ireland can either jump off the plane with the parachutist who wanted to throw her off, or it can jump off without a parachute by being kicked out by the pilots. F U C K I N G L O L

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

The UK is not going to be building a hard border in Northern Ireland. That has been confirmed by the UK Government.

That leaves RoI two options, according to "senior EU officials" -- either southern Ireland builds a hard border themselves, thus making themselves a laughing stock over all their threats of previous two years, or, southern Ireland follows the new "shocking" orders from EU officials that not doing so would result in the EU kicking the Republic of Ireland out of the EU customs union and introducing tariffs on Irish goods.

It's a very funny story of picking a side of one of your bullies and suddenly realising that neither side has your interests at heart.

If, as you say, southern Ireland won't shaft the EU, then it will have to build a border. And thus break all of their promises. Also break the Good Friday Agreement. Also separate the island. And then cherry on top they will not be taken seriously when they have a ""threat"" to make.

Or, should RoI prioritise peace in Ireland and still want to be taken seriously beyond the EU Commission floors, then it will have to live with no border and accept being kicked out of EU institutions.

It's quite hilarious actually.

If you think that this is how EU compliance mechanisms and border law works, then I can't really blame you on being so wrong.

You should try to learn some about it, though.

So, how are you with UK remaining a part of the single market, with freedom of movement to boot? Because that is the result you are aiming for here.

[Trumptonium1]

The UK is not going to be building a hard border in Northern Ireland. That has been confirmed by the UK Government.

That leaves RoI two options, according to "senior EU officials" -- either southern Ireland builds a hard border themselves, thus making themselves a laughing stock over all their threats of previous two years, or, southern Ireland follows the new "shocking" orders from EU officials that not doing so would result in the EU kicking the Republic of Ireland out of the EU customs union and introducing tariffs on Irish goods.

It's a very funny story of picking a side of one of your bullies and suddenly realising that neither side has your interests at heart.

If, as you say, southern Ireland won't shaft the EU, then it will have to build a border. And thus break all of their promises. Also break the Good Friday Agreement. Also separate the island. And then cherry on top they will not be taken seriously when they have a ""threat"" to make.

Or, should RoI prioritise peace in Ireland and still want to be taken seriously beyond the EU Commission floors, then it will have to live with no border and accept being kicked out of EU institutions.

It's quite hilarious actually.

If you think that this is how EU compliance mechanisms and border law works, then I can't really blame you on being so wrong.

You should try to learn some about it, though.

So, how are you with UK remaining a part of the single market, with freedom of movement to boot? Because that is the result you are aiming for here.

Pray tell how the RoI can remain part of the EU customs union while having an open border with a non-member state. I'm listening.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

If you think that this is how EU compliance mechanisms and border law works, then I can't really blame you on being so wrong.

You should try to learn some about it, though.

So, how are you with UK remaining a part of the single market, with freedom of movement to boot? Because that is the result you are aiming for here.

Pray tell how the RoI can remain part of the EU customs union while having an open border with a non-member state. I'm listening.

The open border would be a violation of EU law, but the compliant mechanism is not to kick a nation out of the single market, which is also a violation of EU law. The actual mechanism is to fine Ireland, in that hypothetical. Which only happens if they don’t comply, which they will. There is no reason to believe Ireland will confirm to your wild Brexit fantasies.

While we are at it: pray tell how the UK will leave the single market while keeping an open border.

[Trumptonium1]

Pray tell how the RoI can remain part of the EU customs union while having an open border with a non-member state. I'm listening.

The open border would be a violation of EU law, but the compliant mechanism is not to kick a nation out of the single market, which is also a violation of EU law. The actual mechanism is to fine Ireland, in that hypothetical. Which only happens if they don’t comply, which they will. There is no reason to believe Ireland will confirm to your wild Brexit fantasies.

Ah, so a newspaper and senior EU officials are incorrect about EU law according to a random NSG-roaming law undergraduate? Sounds right.

While we are at it: pray tell how the UK will leave the single market while keeping an open border.

Simple. By not building one, and deliberately fucking Ireland.

[Trumptonium1]

1000 hours to Brexit

[Ifreann]

The open border would be a violation of EU law, but the compliant mechanism is not to kick a nation out of the single market, which is also a violation of EU law. The actual mechanism is to fine Ireland, in that hypothetical. Which only happens if they don’t comply, which they will. There is no reason to believe Ireland will confirm to your wild Brexit fantasies.

Ah, so a newspaper and senior EU officials are incorrect about EU law according to a random NSG-roaming law undergraduate? Sounds right.

While we are at it: pray tell how the UK will leave the single market while keeping an open border.

Simple. By not building one, and deliberately fucking Ireland.

Sweet, easy smuggling.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

The open border would be a violation of EU law, but the compliant mechanism is not to kick a nation out of the single market, which is also a violation of EU law. The actual mechanism is to fine Ireland, in that hypothetical. Which only happens if they don’t comply, which they will. There is no reason to believe Ireland will confirm to your wild Brexit fantasies.

Ah, so a newspaper and senior EU officials are incorrect about EU law according to a random NSG-roaming law undergraduate? Sounds right.

While we are at it: pray tell how the UK will leave the single market while keeping an open border.

Simple. By not building one, and deliberately fucking Ireland.

You have not provided a link to what this 'senior EU official' said. As such, I will take what I read and learnt about EU law above what you claim some 'senior EU official' said. Same goes for a newspaper. I mean, weren't you the person who denounced all newspapers for reporting that companies were leaving Britain because of Brexit? Newspapers can be just as clueless as the rest of us, especially regarding law. The EU does not have the authority to ban a Member State from the Four Freedoms.

You understand that, as long as there isn't a hard border, the UK will factually still have freedom of movement? The UK will still not control her own borders.


Edit: Also, the link you posted links to an opinion piece, so that's not the opinion of the newspaper, and the 'EU Diplomat' is not named. That is hardly a source. If you take that as some sort of evidence, I have a truckload of articles you should read.

[Ifreann]

Ah, so a newspaper and senior EU officials are incorrect about EU law according to a random NSG-roaming law undergraduate? Sounds right.



Simple. By not building one, and deliberately fucking Ireland.

You have not provided a link to what this 'senior EU official' said. As such, I will take what I read and learnt about EU law above what you claim some 'senior EU official' said. Same goes for a newspaper. I mean, weren't you the person who denounced all newspapers for reporting that companies were leaving Britain because of Brexit? Newspapers can be just as clueless as the rest of us, especially regarding law. The EU does not have the authority to ban a Member State from the Four Freedoms.

You understand that, as long as there isn't a hard border, the UK will factually still have freedom of movement? The UK will still not control her own borders.

Shhh, don't tell them. There'll be a fortune to be made in running a black market polski sklep.

[The Blaatschapen]

Ah, so a newspaper and senior EU officials are incorrect about EU law according to a random NSG-roaming law undergraduate? Sounds right.



Simple. By not building one, and deliberately fucking Ireland.

Sweet, easy smuggling.

Hey! Smuggling to Britain (and/or its colonies) is OUR thing!

[Ifreann]

Sweet, easy smuggling.

Hey! Smuggling to Britain (and/or it's colonies) is OUR thing!

I'm sure there'll be enough smuggling for both of us once the Brits start missing all the things they get from Europe. How will London function without prosecco?

[The Free Joy State]

1000 hours to Brexit

(Image)

Looks like the same exact street party held to celebrate the Jubilee in 2012.

Same people... same food...

Those kids haven't grown in 7 years...

[The Blaatschapen]

1000 hours to Brexit

(Image)

Looks like the same exact street party held to celebrate the Jubilee in 2012.

Same people... same food...

Those kids haven't grown in 7 years...

If politics can be in stasis for two-three years, kids can do the same for seven

[The Free Joy State]

Looks like the same exact street party held to celebrate the Jubilee in 2012.

Same people... same food...

Those kids haven't grown in 7 years...

If politics can be in stasis for two-three years, kids can do the same for seven

I'm afraid I disagree. Barring blips, life -- and the world -- moves forever on. Politics just ignores that, as it does all other inconvenient facts.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Sweet, easy smuggling.

Hey! Smuggling to Britain (and/or its colonies) is OUR thing!

We just sail up the Thames, mind. No need for deals behind backs.

[Caracasus]

1000 hours to Brexit

(Image)

Looks like the same exact street party held to celebrate the Jubilee in 2012.

Same people... same food...

Those kids haven't grown in 7 years...

Can't be. It would be really dishonest to try and pass off a photo of a jubilee celebration as a pro brexit party. Not to mention quite stupid given reverse image search is a thing.

[Dumb Ideologies]

I thought it was obvious it was a stock celebration photo and not literally claimed to be a massive pro-Brexit party where the whole street came out; pretty unlikely when opinion is still about 50/50.

[Vassenor]

Post-Brexit trade partners ask UK to lower human rights standards


Wasn't the whole point of this about getting rid of foreign influence on our laws and politics?

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Post-Brexit trade partners ask UK to lower human rights standards


Wasn't the whole point of this about getting rid of foreign influence on our laws and politics?

He's not agreeing to that though is he