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UK Politics Thread VIII—Can't Let EU Go

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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If a general election were held today who would you vote for?

Conservatives
126
16%
Labour
229
30%
Liberal Democrats
130
17%
Greens
39
5%
UKIP
135
18%
SNP
26
3%
Plaid Cymru
7
1%
Sinn Fein/SDLP
27
4%
DUP/UUP
12
2%
Other
35
5%
 
Total votes : 766

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Ostroeuropa
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:19 pm

Dooom35796821595 wrote:I’m still a bit lost as to why we don’t have a coalition between Labour and the Conservatives, since Brexit is the biggest political thing to happen in fifty years.


Partisanship is the only thing keeping the kakistocracy afloat. A national government would lead to alternative parties, and with the Lib Dems fucked on that front we'd see the greens, celtic nationalists, and maybe UKIP or some other right wing populist party. The last thing these people want to do is recreate the same situation that forced them into brexit.
Do you remember the 2012 election where Mitt Romney said Russia was the biggest threat to world peace and Obama and the Democratic establishment mocked him, mere years before they began arguing they had allowed US sovereignty to be usurped on their watch by Russia and this is why the other side was unfit to govern?
That's alright, neither do they apparently.

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Vassenor
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:19 pm

Albennia wrote:
MERIZoC wrote:Thats a French group though?

And that's an identitarian flag.


And if we've learned anything it's that the hardcore groups in NI will pick their allegiances based more on opposing the other side rather than what is ideologically consistent.
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Albennia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Albennia » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:32 pm

MERIZoC wrote:
Albennia wrote:And that's an identitarian flag.

What does that have to do with Unité Radicale

probably Unité Radicale being the predecessor of the Bloc Identitaire?

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MERIZoC
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby MERIZoC » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:32 pm

Albennia wrote:
MERIZoC wrote:What does that have to do with Unité Radicale

probably Unité Radicale being the predecessor of the Bloc Identitaire?

You understand this is a separate group? In the UK?
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Albennia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Albennia » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:39 pm

MERIZoC wrote:
Albennia wrote:probably Unité Radicale being the predecessor of the Bloc Identitaire?

You understand this is a separate group? In the UK?

You mean the British branch of their former youth wing?

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Questers
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Ex-Nation

Postby Questers » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:46 pm

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Is it time to abolish democracy
Yes.
Restore the Crown

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Painisia
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Postby Painisia » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:47 pm

Well, the question is will there be a Brexit? There was a large pro-EU demonstration this day in London, and it seems people are starting to wonder if Brexit will bring any positive results to the UK. The media has written countless of articles, all of them asking if Brexit was worth it. I feel like Brexit will affect the UK VERY HARD. The future seems uncertain and blurry. Maybe the British traditional political parties will fade away? Maybe Britain will have deep societal changes?
Pro: Christian democracy, Third Way, Paternalist conservatism, Communitarianism, Distributism, Agrarianism, Corporatism, Personalism, Environmentalism, Ordoliberalism, Social market economy, Pragmatpolitik, Localism

Neutral: Traditionalism, Abortion, Nationalism, Capitalism

Cons: Extremism, Fundamentalism (Both Christian and Islamic), Nihilism, Communism, Stalinism, Fascism, Nazism, Populism(Some populism), New Atheism, Laissez-faire capitalism, Objectivism, Consumerism, Alt-Right/SJW, Anarchism, American exceptionalism, European Union, Irredentism, National Chauvinism

This nation represents 70% of my views Sarcastic Berlusconi fan

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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:47 pm

I honestly wouldnt put much stock into that flag, considering there is a token irish flag there as well, that flag was most likely adopted by someone to use here.

Again, these people protesting, make nazi salutes with the israeli flag above them, and tend to burn a lot of irish flags on bonfires around the 12th of July.

Fuck, some muppets even hung nazi german flags off of lamp posts alongside israeli flags once a few years back.
Last edited by The Huskar Social Union on Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:47 pm

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Dooom35796821595 wrote:I’m still a bit lost as to why we don’t have a coalition between Labour and the Conservatives, since Brexit is the biggest political thing to happen in fifty years.


Is it time to abolish democracy in favour of a Mogg/Galloway/Robinson triumvirate?

Nah im good thanks.
Scary Spooky Red Mans! Ohhhh! An Atheist Irishman from Belfast Egalitarian Loyal to Dragonstone

Mine is like a bent over cactus, with a harrier jump jet underneath

Yeh: The Red Agenda, Purging the Xenos, Not being a prick, Vidya Gaemz, Art, Science, History, Old Gregg, Blondes, Redheads, Tattooed girls, Erecting fortifications, Tanks.
Neh: The Blue Agenda, Being a prick, Xenos, Racism, National/Religious wankery, Zealots, Gatekeeping, Alt-right/SJW Snowflakes, Random lists, Dismantling Fortifications, Cabbage.

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Fartsniffage
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:49 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Is it time to abolish democracy in favour of a Mogg/Galloway/Robinson triumvirate?

Nah im good thanks.


Someone needs to get you NI types back in hand. I imagine Mogg has some ideas about that.....

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The Huskar Social Union
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:53 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
The Huskar Social Union wrote:Nah im good thanks.


Someone needs to get you NI types back in hand. I imagine Mogg has some ideas about that.....

Mogg can jog away off and fuck himself.
Scary Spooky Red Mans! Ohhhh! An Atheist Irishman from Belfast Egalitarian Loyal to Dragonstone

Mine is like a bent over cactus, with a harrier jump jet underneath

Yeh: The Red Agenda, Purging the Xenos, Not being a prick, Vidya Gaemz, Art, Science, History, Old Gregg, Blondes, Redheads, Tattooed girls, Erecting fortifications, Tanks.
Neh: The Blue Agenda, Being a prick, Xenos, Racism, National/Religious wankery, Zealots, Gatekeeping, Alt-right/SJW Snowflakes, Random lists, Dismantling Fortifications, Cabbage.

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Vassenor
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Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:08 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
Someone needs to get you NI types back in hand. I imagine Mogg has some ideas about that.....

Mogg can jog away off and fuck himself.


Amen.
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Dumb Ideologies
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Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:14 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
Someone needs to get you NI types back in hand. I imagine Mogg has some ideas about that.....

Mogg can jog away off and fuck himself.


He can't be expected to do that by himself, that's one of the many everyday tasks Nanny takes care of for him.
Last edited by Dumb Ideologies on Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dooom35796821595
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Founded: Sep 11, 2011
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Dooom35796821595 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:22 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Dooom35796821595 wrote:I’m still a bit lost as to why we don’t have a coalition between Labour and the Conservatives, since Brexit is the biggest political thing to happen in fifty years.


Partisanship is the only thing keeping the kakistocracy afloat. A national government would lead to alternative parties, and with the Lib Dems fucked on that front we'd see the greens, celtic nationalists, and maybe UKIP or some other right wing populist party. The last thing these people want to do is recreate the same situation that forced them into brexit.


So rule by Tory idiots, rule by Labour idiots, or by third party idiots?

Businesses as usual then. :)
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Vassenor
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Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:53 am

Hunt's complaining that businesses aren't marching to the Government's tune.

Maybe instead of complaining that they might leave you try and convince them to stay?
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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Founded: Apr 18, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:36 am

Vassenor wrote:Hunt's complaining that businesses aren't marching to the Government's tune.

Maybe instead of complaining that they might leave you try and convince them to stay?


Seems inappropriate that the Health Secretary is making statements about business. Is he giving his own opinion, the government view, or has his remit expanded again?

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Caracasus
Issues Editor
 
Posts: 7097
Founded: Apr 23, 2015
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Caracasus » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:28 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:
Vassenor wrote:Hunt's complaining that businesses aren't marching to the Government's tune.

Maybe instead of complaining that they might leave you try and convince them to stay?


Seems inappropriate that the Health Secretary is making statements about business. Is he giving his own opinion, the government view, or has his remit expanded again?


Well we had Priti Patel setting up deals with Israel without any oversight on holiday and Johnson telling people to fuck off randomly...

Seems like business as usual. This lot can't even pretend to look normal or professional.
As an editor I seam to spend an awful lot of thyme going threw issues and checking that they're no oblivious errars. Its a tough job but someone's got too do it!



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Ostroeuropa
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Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:48 am

The Tories and the board for equalities in education have decided to focus on working class white males for a while. Good news obviously, and shows a level of political courage from the Tories that I didn't expect, given the overall political narrative on this topic from the left.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:53 am, edited 3 times in total.
Do you remember the 2012 election where Mitt Romney said Russia was the biggest threat to world peace and Obama and the Democratic establishment mocked him, mere years before they began arguing they had allowed US sovereignty to be usurped on their watch by Russia and this is why the other side was unfit to govern?
That's alright, neither do they apparently.

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Vassenor
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Posts: 40706
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:51 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:The Tories and the board for equalities in education have decided to focus on working class white males for a while. Good news obviously, and shows a level of political courage from the Tories that I didn't expect, given the overall political narrative on this topic from the left.


Remember, focusing on the group that faces some of the least oppression in modern society takes courage.
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Ostroeuropa
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Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:53 am

Vassenor wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:The Tories and the board for equalities in education have decided to focus on working class white males for a while. Good news obviously, and shows a level of political courage from the Tories that I didn't expect, given the overall political narrative on this topic from the left.


Remember, focusing on the group that faces some of the least oppression in modern society takes courage.


The education system is failing them more than any other group, your understanding of oppression is based in a fictional narrative not reflective of reality, and the number of people who buy into it rather than bother to investigate the facts and will accuse or imply people are racist for going against it is precisely why this took courage.


What's interesting about it is that the facts completely debunk the progressive narratives about "dead white males", as the presence of these figures in the curriculum hasn't prevented working class white males being the group least likely to go to university, revealing that progressive efforts here are based in feels over reals and amount to superficial changes for which they can then congratulate themselves rather than structural changes to actually benefit peoples lives or the nation. Probably because even taking a second to investigate rather than relying on superficial and spurious narratives would reveal working class white males as the group they should be helping.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Do you remember the 2012 election where Mitt Romney said Russia was the biggest threat to world peace and Obama and the Democratic establishment mocked him, mere years before they began arguing they had allowed US sovereignty to be usurped on their watch by Russia and this is why the other side was unfit to govern?
That's alright, neither do they apparently.

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Vassenor
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Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:55 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
Remember, focusing on the group that faces some of the least oppression in modern society takes courage.


The education system is failing them more than any other group, your understanding of oppression is based in a fictional narrative not reflective of reality, and the number of people who buy into it rather than bother to investigate the facts and will accuse or imply people are racist for going against it is precisely why this took courage.


What's interesting about it is that the facts completely debunk the progressive narratives about "dead white males", as the presence of these figures in the curriculum hasn't prevented working class white males being the group least likely to go to university, revealing that progressive efforts here are based in feels over reals and amount to superficial changes for which they can then congratulate themselves rather than structural changes to actually benefit peoples lives or the nation. Probably because even taking a second to investigate rather than relying on superficial and spurious narratives would reveal working class white males as the group they should be helping.


So let's see those facts then. How is the working class white male the most deliberately oppressed group in education?
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Ostroeuropa
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:59 am

Vassenor wrote:
So let's see those facts then. How is the working class white male the most deliberately oppressed group in education?



Vassenor wrote:Remember, it's only bias if it's explicit, apparently.

Because those are some pretty odd questions to base your sentencing decisions on.



Oh look, another instance of hypocrisy from you.
(Brought this here as evidence you are insincere in your demands, much like the previous instance of your racist and sexist double standards where you took up the same argument as the "Civil unions should be enough" crowd.)

Why do you have a double standard when it comes to men, vass? is it because it allows you to ignore, erase, and downplay discrimination against them because you want it there? That seems the most straightforward explanation.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
Do you remember the 2012 election where Mitt Romney said Russia was the biggest threat to world peace and Obama and the Democratic establishment mocked him, mere years before they began arguing they had allowed US sovereignty to be usurped on their watch by Russia and this is why the other side was unfit to govern?
That's alright, neither do they apparently.

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Vassenor
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Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:01 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
So let's see those facts then. How is the working class white male the most deliberately oppressed group in education?


They're least likely to get A levels, GCSEs, and least likely to go to university.
The education system not addressing that for years and trying to fix it was systemic oppression, given the duties of the education system.
It's fairly straightforward.

Once again you utilize a standard for oppression of males and whites you explicitly downplay elsewhere and ask for deliberate, apparently you think only conspiracy can cause systemic problems when it comes to males/whites, is that because you're deliberately holding a racist and sexist double standard against them, or is it just a bias you have that you haven't examined?


There's a difference between "this happens" and "this is systemic oppression".

For example, would you say that female students being less likely to go into STEM courses at any level is a thing that happens, or a case of systemic oppression?
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Ostroeuropa
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Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:04 am

Vassenor wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
They're least likely to get A levels, GCSEs, and least likely to go to university.
The education system not addressing that for years and trying to fix it was systemic oppression, given the duties of the education system.
It's fairly straightforward.

Once again you utilize a standard for oppression of males and whites you explicitly downplay elsewhere and ask for deliberate, apparently you think only conspiracy can cause systemic problems when it comes to males/whites, is that because you're deliberately holding a racist and sexist double standard against them, or is it just a bias you have that you haven't examined?


There's a difference between "this happens" and "this is systemic oppression".

For example, would you say that female students being less likely to go into STEM courses at any level is a thing that happens, or a case of systemic oppression?


There's already evidence that teachers discriminate against boys, and the yougov polling on the most hated demographic shows that young white males are the most disliked demographic in the nation. Moreover there is no effort to encourage white males to aspire as they are portrayed as already in control and powerful, a fact that causes the progressive narrative to be a part of this systemic oppression of white males when you account for their lower levels of aspiration. Further, there's been efforts to fix low results in other demographics and they were clearly successful, failing to do so for white males for years because it made people upset their narrative was wrong is oppression. If it was another race or gender, they would have been helped out already.

Yes, and yes, that is an example of it in some cases. Guess what, we're trying to fix that and have been since it was pointed out.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
Do you remember the 2012 election where Mitt Romney said Russia was the biggest threat to world peace and Obama and the Democratic establishment mocked him, mere years before they began arguing they had allowed US sovereignty to be usurped on their watch by Russia and this is why the other side was unfit to govern?
That's alright, neither do they apparently.

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Vassenor
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Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:39 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
There's a difference between "this happens" and "this is systemic oppression".

For example, would you say that female students being less likely to go into STEM courses at any level is a thing that happens, or a case of systemic oppression?


There's already evidence that teachers discriminate against boys, and the yougov polling on the most hated demographic shows that young white males are the most disliked demographic in the nation. Moreover there is no effort to encourage white males to aspire as they are portrayed as already in control and powerful, a fact that causes the progressive narrative to be a part of this systemic oppression of white males when you account for their lower levels of aspiration. Further, there's been efforts to fix low results in other demographics and they were clearly successful, failing to do so for white males for years because it made people upset their narrative was wrong is oppression. If it was another race or gender, they would have been helped out already.

Yes, and yes, that is an example of it in some cases. Guess what, we're trying to fix that and have been since it was pointed out.


So what is your evidence that the white working class male demographic was passed over for narrative reasons? And that said narrative is responsible for said lower levels of aspiration?
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