Pragmatarian Discussion Thread

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Is the main premise of your theory for us to reveal our true valuation, yes or no?

The main premise is that DV is better than the alternatives (ie BV) at revealing valuations.

Yes, or no?

I am not asking you for an explanation.

[The South Falls]

This is slowly turning into more of a court case than a discussion.

[Xerographica]

The main premise is that DV is better than the alternatives (ie BV) at revealing valuations.

Yes, or no?

I am not asking you for an explanation.

I didn't give you an explanation. You asked for the main premise and I gave it to you. When it comes to revealing the demand for things, DV is better than the alternatives.

[Xerographica]

This is slowly turning into more of a court case than a discussion.

I don't object.

[Bombadil]

It's kind of like the flaw in Austrian Economics, where you create models that rely on the assumption of perfect intentions and perfect knowledge.. great.. look at that.. but put it into reality and the outcomes all fail.

The market is efficient because people invest based on value.. even betting doesn't, we see the polls were better than betting in the Republican nomination process...

Who I will bet on to win might be different to who I think will win and who I think will win might be more accurate averaged out over who one bets will win.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Yes, or no?

I am not asking you for an explanation.

I didn't give you an explanation. You asked for the main premise and I gave it to you. When it comes to revealing the demand for things, DV is better than the alternatives.

No, I asked you a yes or no question. You gave me a roundabout answer. I didn't ask you "could you please explain again your main premise" I asked you whether that was your preference or not.

Now, follow directions, is your premise that your system will reveal our true preferences, yes or no?

[Dogmeat]

This is slowly turning into more of a court case than a discussion.

It was never much of a discussion. Xero doesn't listen to or care what the other side is saying.

[The South Falls]

This is slowly turning into more of a court case than a discussion.

It was never much of a discussion. Xero doesn't listen to or care what the other side is saying.

Like, a court case where the defense has headphones and a blindfold. Yea.

[Xerographica]

This is slowly turning into more of a court case than a discussion.

It was never much of a discussion. Xero doesn't listen to or care what the other side is saying.

I object!

[Dogmeat]

It was never much of a discussion. Xero doesn't listen to or care what the other side is saying.

I object!

You're objectionable.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

It was never much of a discussion. Xero doesn't listen to or care what the other side is saying.

I object!

Objection denied.

Now answer the fucking question, it's a yes or no question and it's not that hard.

Is your premise that your system will reveal our true preferences, yes or no?

I'm not letting you squeeze again from this, you can either learn how to answer a simple question the easy way or the hard way.

[Xerographica]

I didn't give you an explanation. You asked for the main premise and I gave it to you. When it comes to revealing the demand for things, DV is better than the alternatives.

No, I asked you a yes or no question. You gave me a roundabout answer. I didn't ask you "could you please explain again your main premise" I asked you whether that was your preference or not.

Now, follow directions, is your premise that your system will reveal our true preferences, yes or no?

DV isn't perfect. I never claimed it was. My claim is that it's better than the alternatives.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

No, I asked you a yes or no question. You gave me a roundabout answer. I didn't ask you "could you please explain again your main premise" I asked you whether that was your preference or not.

Now, follow directions, is your premise that your system will reveal our true preferences, yes or no?

DV isn't perfect. I never claimed it was. My claim is that it's better than the alternatives.

Yes, or no?

[Xerographica]

I object!

You're objectionable.

You're subjectionable.

[Xerographica]

DV isn't perfect. I never claimed it was. My claim is that it's better than the alternatives.

Yes, or no?

Here's me using my words to communicate that I want justice for The Parkus Empire. Does this adequately reveal my demand for justice? Of course not. Demand can only be revealed by personal sacrifice.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Yes, or no?

Here's me using my words to communicate that I want justice for The Parkus Empire. Does this adequately reveal my demand for justice? Of course not. Demand can only be revealed by personal sacrifice.

Again, yes or no Xero? Is your premise that your system will reveal our true preferences, yes or no?

I'm not asking you about Parkus, and I sure as shit wasn't asking you whether or not you have claimed it was perfect, and I also didn't ask you to tell me what your premise was.

I asked you to tell me whether or not your premise is that your system will reveal our true preferences. I want you to tell me either "yes" or "no". I am not asking you for an explanation, I am not asking you for an excuse, and I am not asking you to give me an example. I know what I'm asking.

[Xerographica]

Here's me using my words to communicate that I want justice for The Parkus Empire. Does this adequately reveal my demand for justice? Of course not. Demand can only be revealed by personal sacrifice.

Again, yes or no Xero? Is your premise that your system will reveal our true preferences, yes or no?

I'm not asking you about Parkus, and I sure as shit wasn't asking you whether or not you have claimed it was perfect, and I also didn't ask you to tell me what your premise was.

I asked you to tell me whether or not your premise is that your system will reveal our true preferences.

You've proved that my system won't always reveal people's true demand for things. But the alternatives will never reveal people's true demand for things.

[Dogmeat]

Yes, or no?

Here's me using my words to communicate that I want justice for The Parkus Empire. Does this adequately reveal my demand for justice? Of course not. Demand can only be revealed by personal sacrifice.

I mean, you're going to lose your nation if you keep spamming moderation. That's a sort of sacrifice. It won't accomplish anything, though.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

It's not a waste to help fund our community, just like it's not a waste to help fund our government.

Also...

Justice For The Parkus Empire!

It would not indicate the community's wants since the only person who'd contribute is you, and only to 'prove your system, other than a few who'd spend more than you just to spite you.

So it would not indicate the community's wants, just yours and a couple other people.

Much as if we expanded, the greatest contributions would go to the upkeep of roads and security for well off areas.. unless.. unless what you really want is communism whereby we all have an equal allocation given equal pay - but then kind of pointless for your system since they haven't 'earned it' and therefore it's not a true indication.

You've been shown plenty of examples where DV does not have a better outcome than BV.. you state it is always better.. you seem to think it's a problem of our not understanding your theory.. we do.. we've shown examples of where it's wrong, we've explained why it doesn't work and some have had to provide actual realities of how markets and other such things work.. but you have this logical theory that works in your head but not always in reality.. sometimes yes, not always.

Parkus deserved his DEAT. I'm not happy he's gone per se, I remember him as relatively decent back in the day but turning this site into a popularity contest is not a great idea.

Quite. Rules are rules. It’s not a reflection on whethe people hate or want Parkus to leave. It’s that he broke forum rules and consequently, has to face the music.

[Bombadil]

It would not indicate the community's wants since the only person who'd contribute is you, and only to 'prove your system, other than a few who'd spend more than you just to spite you.

So it would not indicate the community's wants, just yours and a couple other people.

Much as if we expanded, the greatest contributions would go to the upkeep of roads and security for well off areas.. unless.. unless what you really want is communism whereby we all have an equal allocation given equal pay - but then kind of pointless for your system since they haven't 'earned it' and therefore it's not a true indication.

You've been shown plenty of examples where DV does not have a better outcome than BV.. you state it is always better.. you seem to think it's a problem of our not understanding your theory.. we do.. we've shown examples of where it's wrong, we've explained why it doesn't work and some have had to provide actual realities of how markets and other such things work.. but you have this logical theory that works in your head but not always in reality.. sometimes yes, not always.

Parkus deserved his DEAT. I'm not happy he's gone per se, I remember him as relatively decent back in the day but turning this site into a popularity contest is not a great idea.

Quite. Rules are rules. It’s not a reflection on whethe people hate or want Parkus to leave. It’s that he broke forum rules and consequently, has to face the music.

Anyway, he's back as Unfear - it was a DEAT not a DOS.

[Luminesa]

Yes, or no?

Here's me using my words to communicate that I want justice for The Parkus Empire. Does this adequately reveal my demand for justice? Of course not. Demand can only be revealed by personal sacrifice.

Oh yes, such a sacrifice to beg the mods to have mercy on this person you hardly even know or care about. Shinedown has a good quote for this: “Find your martyr, I’m sure you’ve made the crown.” You (and Parkus) can quit looking now like you’re the victims of some terrible conspiracy. Take some personal responsibility. Stop hiding behind pretty words and stupid ideas (like this thread) to hide the fact that you are willing to use anyone you can find to die for ideas you won’t even put yourself on the line for. Both that thread and this one are drawn-out farces, one of which Kyrusia mercifully put down, the other which is only running because you dodge questions harder than Bo Jackson in Tecmo Bowl.

[Salandriagado]

No, but we aren't after a metric for making decisions for what to vote for. We're after a metric to decide which system has performed best in the experiment.

Why don't we make a metric for making decisions for what to BV for?

Because the rest of us aren't claiming that there's a coherent universal definition of "better" for decision making processes and trying to make experiments to test such. But yes, your definition should, at a minimum, cover both BV and DV, and they should be comparable in the poset that it gives.

[The Holy Therns]

Yes, or no?

Here's me using my words to communicate that I want justice for The Parkus Empire. Does this adequately reveal my demand for justice? Of course not. Demand can only be revealed by personal sacrifice.

That was justice. Rules were broken, punishment was delivered. You're basically suggesting people should be allowed to bribe their way out of punishment here.

[USS Monitor]

No it wouldn't, it would indicate who has the most money to waste.

It's not a waste to help fund our community, just like it's not a waste to help fund our government.

Also...

Justice For The Parkus Empire!

Yes, or no?

Here's me using my words to communicate that I want justice for The Parkus Empire. Does this adequately reveal my demand for justice? Of course not. Demand can only be revealed by personal sacrifice.

*** Warned for threadjacking ***

Parkus is not the subject of this thread. The continued use of this thread as a platform to litigate his deletion will result in the thread being locked and further punishments being handed out to whoever continues the threadjack.

[Minoa]

This experiment is strange in my opinion (I’m a total newb’ in this), but it seems clear that donation voting really transforms the results. But since it is a discussion forum, informal responses are expected either way.

Also, my BV for this thread is: Minoan Social Democracy.

Am i doing this right, or am I just not good enough?