Puerto Rico and the UN

[Liriena]

Puerto Rico deserves statehood.

[Uxupox]

One more year has passed since the last UN meeting on the decolonization of the US territory of Puerto Rico. Like most years, people from PR. and other nations talked in front of a committe on decolonization. You can read about what happened below. In PR. all the political parties are in agreement that PR. is in fact a US colony. Even the US government has hinted that PR. is a colony with no actual sovereignty.

PR. problem has been that the different political parties in PR. are not united when they go in front of the US congress. But it seems this might be changing. With all the problems PR. is facing a large segment of the population want results and less talk. When it comes to results it seems the head of the independence party has gotten both the Commonwealth party and Statehood party to agree on having conversations on forming a united front before the US congress when it comes to the decolonization of PR.. Time will tell the results.

I think this united front will be productive since people want actual results which benefit PR. No more feet dragging. Of course, chances are the big losers will be the traditional parties. Chances are something new will pop up to save the day, Cough cough ...Yulin.. Cough cough.

You can read here on the UN decolonization of PR. - https://www.un.org/press/en/2018/gacol3324.doc.htm

Yulin is at the minimum Kim Jon Un level.

[Uxupox]

It’ll be a cold day in hell before that happens.

"Puerto Rico should be returned to the Spanish Crown."
Lol, I support this option, I have posted on NS a few times that Cuba should return to España La Madre Patria as the ever faithful Isle, Viva España La Madre Patria.

Nobody in PR wants to become part of the esclavisadores. Never again.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Puerto Rico deserves statehood.

There's still question as to whether they want it.

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

Puerto Rico deserves statehood.

There's still question as to whether they want it.

Hold a referendum on the matter. Direct democracy FTW

[Greater Miami Shores]

"Puerto Rico should be returned to the Spanish Crown."
Lol, I support this option, I have posted on NS a few times that Cuba should return to España La Madre Patria as the ever faithful Isle, Viva España La Madre Patria.

If you want Spain to take over shit so bad why don’t you just move there?

lol, Thermy my friend, If I just move there, than Cuba wont be part of España La Madre Patria.

[United Muscovite Nations]

There's still question as to whether they want it.

Hold a referendum on the matter. Direct democracy FTW

I agree, but the last referendum, set up by the pro-statehood party, deliberately manipulated the questions to get the result they wanted. Any referendum has to be a simple, one question referendum where changes to the status-quo should have to get more than 50% of the vote.

[Washington Resistance Army]

There's still question as to whether they want it.

Hold a referendum on the matter. Direct democracy FTW

No. Direct democracy should be banned.

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

Hold a referendum on the matter. Direct democracy FTW

No. Direct democracy should be banned.

Why? In this case, a referendum is by far the most effective way of determining whether the people of Puerto Rico want independence.

[Washington Resistance Army]

No. Direct democracy should be banned.

Why? In this case, a referendum is by far the most effective way of determining whether the people of Puerto Rico want independence.

Because direct democracy is cancer and people are too stupid for it to work. Puerto Rico should just be released imo.

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

Hold a referendum on the matter. Direct democracy FTW

I agree, but the last referendum, set up by the pro-statehood party, deliberately manipulated the questions to get the result they wanted. Any referendum has to be a simple, one question referendum where changes to the status-quo should have to get more than 50% of the vote.

"Should Puerto Rico become fully independent from the United States?" or something like that? (most referendums are on simple questions like "Should the UK leave the EU?" or "Should Ireland remove its constitutional amendment prohibiting abortions?")

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

Why? In this case, a referendum is by far the most effective way of determining whether the people of Puerto Rico want independence.

Because direct democracy is cancer and people are too stupid for it to work. Puerto Rico should just be released imo.

You do know most people in the developed world have a decent level of education? (hell, here in the UK we have a school subject called "Citizenship" which teaches how the UK political and legal system works)

[United Muscovite Nations]

I agree, but the last referendum, set up by the pro-statehood party, deliberately manipulated the questions to get the result they wanted. Any referendum has to be a simple, one question referendum where changes to the status-quo should have to get more than 50% of the vote.

"Should Puerto Rico become fully independent from the United States?" or something like that? (most referendums are on simple questions like "Should the UK leave the EU?" or "Should Ireland remove its constitutional amendment prohibiting abortions?")

I think all that's needed is a "What is the path Puerto Rico should follow?" and the options be "Statehood", "Status Quo", and "Independence."

The way the last referendum was set up, it was a two part question where the first question pitted "changing the status quo" against "Status Quo." Status Quo lost badly, but only because the first question had pro-statehood and pro-independence voters as a single block, and then the second question pitted independence against Statehood, which resulted in Statehood winning. It was a way to manipulate the vote without doing so overtly.

[Uxupox]

I agree, but the last referendum, set up by the pro-statehood party, deliberately manipulated the questions to get the result they wanted. Any referendum has to be a simple, one question referendum where changes to the status-quo should have to get more than 50% of the vote.

"Should Puerto Rico become fully independent from the United States?" or something like that? (most referendums are on simple questions like "Should the UK leave the EU?" or "Should Ireland remove its constitutional amendment prohibiting abortions?")

PR just had a referendum almost similar to what you describe. It became an absolute shitfest.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Because direct democracy is cancer and people are too stupid for it to work. Puerto Rico should just be released imo.

You do know most people in the developed world have a decent level of education? (hell, here in the UK we have a school subject called "Citizenship" which teaches how the UK political and legal system works)

Yes, and they're still not smart enough for it to work. Ballot initiatives, referendums etc etc are awful.

[Gaine Moon]

Guys, this isn't the 1500s. Spain is not in a position to go around conquering nations around the world, nor do they have any interest in doing so.

[Gaine Moon]

You do know most people in the developed world have a decent level of education? (hell, here in the UK we have a school subject called "Citizenship" which teaches how the UK political and legal system works)

Yes, and they're still not smart enough for it to work. Ballot initiatives, referendums etc etc are awful.

What gives you the right to determine who is smart enough for democracy?
Also, while I agree that direct democracy is not a very good system of government, especially on the national level, I don't think it's exactly "cancer".

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

You do know most people in the developed world have a decent level of education? (hell, here in the UK we have a school subject called "Citizenship" which teaches how the UK political and legal system works)

Yes, and they're still not smart enough for it to work. Ballot initiatives, referendums etc etc are awful.

"Still not smart enough for it to work"

Please may you give some evidence to back that up? Also, elected representatives often ignore campaign promises.

[Benuty]

We do, however, believe, that the island is guarded by the world's greatest army, which respects the popular sovereignty, and if the Spanish do a damn thing, they'll get their asses on a platter,

I merely stated what I believe should happen. I am under no illusions with regards to its likelihood.

and that it is rather asinine to tell actual Americans they are Spanish.

They may be regarded as Americans under US law, but that means nothing to me.

Spain lost the war. They don’t deserve shit.

"Might makes right," then. Classy. I suspect that if a country you didn't like were to invade and annex the territory of its neighbour, your attitude would be different.

If we lost then maybe we deserved to lose because we allowed ourselves to grow weak.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Yes, and they're still not smart enough for it to work. Ballot initiatives, referendums etc etc are awful.

What gives you the right to determine who is smart enough for democracy?

I live in the age where a shockingly high percentage of adults are functionally illiterate, where people eat laundry detergent, where people believe climate change isn't real, where voters are oftentimes little more than emotional children trying to spite the other side with no care for actually fixing the country, where a reality TV star with no experience in anything except having a silver spoon up his ass became the most powerful man in the world etc etc. Democracy is a bad meme that has failed.

Also, while I agree that direct democracy is not a very good system of government, especially on the national level, I don't think it's exactly "cancer".

Multiparty democracy where just about anyone can vote is a pretty awful system in general tbh

[United Muscovite Nations]

Yes, and they're still not smart enough for it to work. Ballot initiatives, referendums etc etc are awful.

"Still not smart enough for it to work"

Please may you give some evidence to back that up? Also, elected representatives often ignore campaign promises.

Perhaps as much as 50% of the US adult population has below basic literacy skills: https://nces.ed.gov/pubs93/93275.pdf

[Petrolheadia]

What gives you the right to determine who is smart enough for democracy?

I live in the age where a shockingly high percentage of adults are functionally illiterate, where people eat laundry detergent, where people believe climate change isn't real, where voters are oftentimes little more than emotional children trying to spite the other side with no care for actually fixing the country, where a reality TV star with no experience in anything except having a silver spoon up his ass became the most powerful man in the world etc etc. Democracy is a bad meme that has failed.

Also, while I agree that direct democracy is not a very good system of government, especially on the national level, I don't think it's exactly "cancer".

Multiparty democracy where just about anyone can vote is a pretty awful system in general tbh

So what do you propose instead? A system where the status of millions depends on the independent whims of somebody up above them?

Any system can end up with idiotic rulers, it's that it's easier to get rid of them in democracy.

[MERIZoC]

The United States should be peacefully disbanded and declared a demilitarized zone with Puerto Rico becoming a fully independent nation.

Hahahah fuck that. I’d start a coup before that happens

youre at least my third favorite itg

[Thermodolia]

Hahahah fuck that. I’d start a coup before that happens

youre at least my third favorite itg

Well thanks i guess. Even though I actually follow through with what I say on the internet. I would attempt to coup the government if they attempted that. So I guess that makes me just a tough guy?

Btw who’s number one and two?

[Gaine Moon]

I live in the age where a shockingly high percentage of adults are functionally illiterate, where people eat laundry detergent, where people believe climate change isn't real, where voters are oftentimes little more than emotional children trying to spite the other side with no care for actually fixing the country, where a reality TV star with no experience in anything except having a silver spoon up his ass became the most powerful man in the world etc etc. Democracy is a bad meme that has failed.

I agree that direct democracy is not the answer, but what alternative to democracy do you propose?