Puerto Rico and the UN

[Conserative Morality]

I live in the age where a shockingly high percentage of adults are functionally illiterate, where people eat laundry detergent, where people believe climate change isn't real, where voters are oftentimes little more than emotional children trying to spite the other side with no care for actually fixing the country, where a reality TV star with no experience in anything except having a silver spoon up his ass became the most powerful man in the world etc etc. Democracy is a bad meme that has failed.

Don't call it a grave. It's the future you lot chose.

[The United Artherian Federation]

I live in the age where a shockingly high percentage of adults are functionally illiterate, where people eat laundry detergent, where people believe climate change isn't real, where voters are oftentimes little more than emotional children trying to spite the other side with no care for actually fixing the country, where a reality TV star with no experience in anything except having a silver spoon up his ass became the most powerful man in the world etc etc. Democracy is a bad meme that has failed.

I agree that direct democracy is not the answer, but what alternative to democracy do you propose?

I have an idea, if I may share it.

A Monarch, elected by the people at the end of the previous leaders life, who has the final say on everything related to the national government. A small cabinet, appointed by the King/President/Emperor/Tzar, which is like Congress but smaller and with less bitching from a larger body. Of course the head leader could be recalled with a unanimous vote from the cabinet and 2/3 majority of the people too.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I live in the age where a shockingly high percentage of adults are functionally illiterate, where people eat laundry detergent, where people believe climate change isn't real, where voters are oftentimes little more than emotional children trying to spite the other side with no care for actually fixing the country, where a reality TV star with no experience in anything except having a silver spoon up his ass became the most powerful man in the world etc etc. Democracy is a bad meme that has failed.

Don't call it a grave. It's the future you lot chose.

We were doomed no matter what, Uncle Sam died long ago.

I live in the age where a shockingly high percentage of adults are functionally illiterate, where people eat laundry detergent, where people believe climate change isn't real, where voters are oftentimes little more than emotional children trying to spite the other side with no care for actually fixing the country, where a reality TV star with no experience in anything except having a silver spoon up his ass became the most powerful man in the world etc etc. Democracy is a bad meme that has failed.

I agree that direct democracy is not the answer, but what alternative to democracy do you propose?

Huey Longism or Posadism, take your pick.

[Conserative Morality]

We were doomed no matter what, Uncle Sam died long ago.

No number of devil's-deal-making traitors can produce enough long knives to murder Uncle Sam.

[Benuty]

We were doomed no matter what, Uncle Sam died long ago.

No number of devil's-deal-making traitors can produce enough long knives to murder Uncle Sam.

You are hardly correct here conserative...Gilead is within you.

[Conserative Morality]

No number of devil's-deal-making traitors can produce enough long knives to murder Uncle Sam.

You are hardly correct here conserative...Gilead is within you.

I have too much of the Union in me for that to have any room.

[Thermodolia]

I agree that direct democracy is not the answer, but what alternative to democracy do you propose?

I have an idea, if I may share it.

A Monarch, elected by the people at the end of the previous leaders life, who has the final say on everything related to the national government. A small cabinet, appointed by the King/President/Emperor/Tzar, which is like Congress but smaller and with less bitching from a larger body. Of course the head leader could be recalled with a unanimous vote from the cabinet and 2/3 majority of the people too.

Eww. A monarchy. How about a military dictatorship instead? Or a domainaint party republic?

[Benuty]

You are hardly correct here conserative...Gilead is within you.

I have too much of the Union in me for that to have any room.

The union died some time ago regardless of what Honolulu or Canada think.

[Washington Resistance Army]

We were doomed no matter what, Uncle Sam died long ago.

No number of devil's-deal-making traitors can produce enough long knives to murder Uncle Sam.

Alas it wasn't devil's-deal-making traitors that killed Uncle Sam, it was an ignorant populace continually electing people who had no care for him that did it.

[Conserative Morality]

Alas it wasn't devil's-deal-making traitors that killed Uncle Sam, it was an ignorant populace continually electing people who had no care for him that did it.

Oh, but it was devil's deal making traitors, courting that vote, encouraging pride in ignorance, destroying educational opportunities, all to extend their power a little longer.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Alas it wasn't devil's-deal-making traitors that killed Uncle Sam, it was an ignorant populace continually electing people who had no care for him that did it.

Oh, but it was devil's deal making traitors, courting that vote, encouraging pride in ignorance, destroying educational opportunities, all to extend their power a little longer.

We should have just had more night classes and wealth sharing ;_;

[Rio Cana]

Those that propose Statehood are dreaming since it will not happen. Yes, there might be some politicians in the US that might say do this and do that and you will become a state. One hundred years can pass and then some other excuse will pop up.

The solution to the status problem is far from clear cut since there are too many political and business interests in play.

There is a small group that wants to reunite with Spain. I say no. But you got to admit that at least healthcare would be free for all. Spain is counted has being among the nations with the best healthcare.

[Post War America]

Those that propose Statehood are dreaming since it will not happen. Yes, there might be some politicians in the US that might say do this and do that and you will become a state. One hundred years can pass and then some other excuse will pop up.

The solution to the status problem is far from clear cut since there are too many political and business interests in play.

There is a small group that wants to reunite with Spain. I say no. But you got to admit that at least healthcare would be free for all. Spain is counted has being among the nations with the best healthcare.

I'd be willing to see Puerto Rican independence or absorption fully into the US. Making it a colony of Spain is unacceptable.

[Austria Minor]

True, letting Puerto Rico fall to Spain would just be unethical. If anything if the U.S makes it a state they should allow cultural preservation seeing that well they're not attached to the U.S. We've done the same with Hawaii and Alaska didn't we?

[Oil exporting People]

"Hey guys, here's a vote on your status. You get the same offers Alaska and Hawaii got!"
"Okay."
"Hey guys, us again. We beat those fucking Soviets. How about now?"
"No."
"How about now?"
"No."
"Is this the Krusty Krab?"
"No, this is Patrick."
"Will you make up your minds?"
"No."

six months later

"Yall a bunch of Colonialists muthafuckers."
"What the absolute fuck?"

[Tahar Joblis]

I think they should be a state but for some reason they seem content the way they are
Eh their choice

97% in favor of statehood in the last plebiscite, in the one 61% before that. It's not PR that enjoys its status, it's Congress.

The official top-line results are misleading.

The 2012 referendum was broken up into two separate questions, the first one asking if Puerto Ricans should keep the current status (46% said yes). In the 2012 referendum, 834,191 out of 1,878,969 votes were in favor of statehood. The PPD (pro-commonwealth party) encouraged a boycott of the second question on the basis that none of the options included their preferred status, so a lot of voters left the second question blank in protest.

It also meant that while the PNP claimed victory with "61% of the vote" based on discounting the blank second question ballots, the PPD had little difficulty claiming that statehood had again fallen short of majority support and declaring victory, since only 44% of voters had actually voted in favor of statehood, so they had an easy time convincing the Republicans to punt the issue. TBH, perfectly reasonably, because basically that was 46% in favor of the status quo and only 44% (less any overlap) in favor of statehood.

Then with the 2017 referendum, polling showed relatively close figures, so the PPD called for a boycott. This time, for various reasons, the boycott was wildly successful, and only 502,801 Puerto Ricans voted in favor of statehood. For those of you watching the numbers, that's a significant drop from the minority who voted in favor of statehood in the previous referendum. This meant that the PNP and PPD could again both declare victory, and again there wasn't a real popular mandate that Congress would feel obligated to listen to.

I wouldn't say that Puerto Ricans are content with their status, but they've never convincingly lined up behind either statehood or independence, and ever since Luis Marin Munoz founded the PPD, stabbed the current independence party in the back, and started backing a perpetual territorial ("commonwealth") status that was neither, the "middle" option has managed to keep muddling through as the default.

[Itaull]

You do know most people in the developed world have a decent level of education? (hell, here in the UK we have a school subject called "Citizenship" which teaches how the UK political and legal system works)

Yes, and they're still not smart enough for it to work. Ballot initiatives, referendums etc etc are awful.

It isn't that people are dumb. It is that the questions are too simple, leave no room for negotiations.

For example, on the Brexit, there are at least 3 positions, stay in, no matter what, leave no matter what, or leave if certain conditions aren't met. The conditional leave is probably the best option for the UK, because they would not be committed to leave. This option was not on the referendum. The vote was also, once in a life time, so the only chance to be free of the EU, so the voters would be forced to make a decision.

Also, referendums tend to be simple majorities, even though they deal with big constitutional issues. Especially when talking about abolishing a monarchy, territorial changes or independence, a super majority should be needed. These things being irreversible and essentially major constitutional amendments.

Also, considering that a 4% difference is a small polling error, and such a small difference could be caused by voter suppression, voter fraud, or people staying home, or wording of the question. You could probably even get a different poll result for a close referendum just by varying the day.

[The United Artherian Federation]

I have an idea, if I may share it.

A Monarch, elected by the people at the end of the previous leaders life, who has the final say on everything related to the national government. A small cabinet, appointed by the King/President/Emperor/Tzar, which is like Congress but smaller and with less bitching from a larger body. Of course the head leader could be recalled with a unanimous vote from the cabinet and 2/3 majority of the people too.

Eww. A monarchy. How about a military dictatorship instead? Or a domainaint party republic?

Why not this? But I do see some up sides to a military dictatorship....

[Constitutional Technocracy of Minecraft]

What gives you the right to determine who is smart enough for democracy?

I live in the age where a shockingly high percentage of adults are functionally illiterate, where people eat laundry detergent, where people believe climate change isn't real, where voters are oftentimes little more than emotional children trying to spite the other side with no care for actually fixing the country, where a reality TV star with no experience in anything except having a silver spoon up his ass became the most powerful man in the world etc etc. Democracy is a bad meme that has failed.

1. How is a dictatorship where being the grandchild of someone who opposes the government gets you sent to a forced-labour camp, where people are made to believe the leader never takes a shit, where many people have to drink from dirty puddles, and where half the population has massive tapeworms inside their intestines and the regime, rather than spending the money on medical treatment, spends that amount of money on another nuclear missile, better?

2. That's about the US, not democracy in general. Note that here in the UK we have a slightly more intelligent government and electorate.

3. And how about we stop generalising about the darker sides of the United States and North Korea?

Also, while I agree that direct democracy is not a very good system of government, especially on the national level, I don't think it's exactly "cancer".

Multiparty democracy where just about anyone can vote is a pretty awful system in general tbh

If you're under 18 or have a registered mental incapacity, you cannot vote in most democracies

[The Krogan]

People assuming Spain would even want Puerto Rico, pretty sure yall have nothing to worry about on that front.

[The Alma Mater]

2. That's about the US, not democracy in general. Note that here in the UK we have a slightly more intelligent government and electorate.

Remember "What is Brexit" ?

[Unstoppable Empire of Doom]

I think they should be a state but for some reason they seem content the way they are
Eh their choice

97% in favor of statehood in the last plebiscite, in the one 61% before that. It's not PR that enjoys its status, it's Congress.

This. Congress won't let them become a state because states must be admitted in pairs. One left leaning and one right leaning so as not to upset the status quo.

Also Puerto Rico is not a colony. They are free to separate from the US any time they want to but they do not. As far as I am concerned Puerto Ricans are American. Their culture will not suddenly be destroyed by becoming a state. Not after a century of this.

Edit: btw the 97% vote was because separatists didn't vote because they knew they were going to lose.

[Thermodolia]

97% in favor of statehood in the last plebiscite, in the one 61% before that. It's not PR that enjoys its status, it's Congress.

This. Congress won't let them become a state because states must be admitted in pairs. One left leaning and one right leaning so as not to upset the status quo.

Also Puerto Rico is not a colony. They are free to separate from the US any time they want to but they do not. As far as I am concerned Puerto Ricans are American. Their culture will not suddenly be destroyed by becoming a state. Not after a century of this.

Edit: btw the 97% vote was because separatists didn't vote because they knew they were going to lose.

Then we make Jefferson a state.

[Conserative Morality]

This. Congress won't let them become a state because states must be admitted in pairs. One left leaning and one right leaning so as not to upset the status quo.

Which is, of course, retarded, since the point of states is to represent regions, not parties.

[Oil exporting People]

This. Congress won't let them become a state because states must be admitted in pairs. One left leaning and one right leaning so as not to upset the status quo.

Which is, of course, retarded, since the point of states is to represent regions, not parties.

In theory, but not in practice since 1820.